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Thread: First cutting cycle - Anavar questions

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    First cutting cycle - Anavar questions

    I'm new to this forum and new to cycling but am an experienced fitness enthusiast. I joined and am posting this thread to request some advice from those experienced with cycling and Anavar in particular but first a little background about myself may be necessary. I am in my early forties and have been training diligently since my early twenties. I have trained with all manner of routines and have been aided by most commonly used supplements at one time or another. My goal has never been to absolutely maximize my growth potential but rather to wield a fit and strong physique. Currently, I am probably at about the largest my muscles can grow naturally and I am comfortable with that. However, I have a few extra pounds of fat that I simply cannot shake. I am 5'10 and 210 lbs with roughly 12% body fat. My diet and protein intake are on point and my workouts are intense and exhausting. I have about 3 months before I hit the beach and I would love to reach 8% body fat before then. I am considering a cycle of Anavar (I have never used anything not sold over the counter) but I have read that it may suppress my natural testosterone production.... Which would not be very beneficial. Are there any products, over the counter or otherwise that I can stack with Anavar to combat this? Or is there an an alternative to Anavar that may prove more beneficial in shedding the last few pounds that I need? An ECA or anything similar is not an option for me due to the early stage jitters (been through it too many times and have no desire to repeat). Any advice would be appreciated?

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    dk94's Avatar
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    Dont run anavar without test, theres nothing otc that can substitute it. If youre interested in cutting check out carnadine (gw501516) and albuteral. These may help in your goal without you having to run a cycle.

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dk94 View Post
    If youre interested in cutting check out carnadine (gw501516) and albuteral. These may help in your goal without you having to run a cycle.
    I appreciate the advice and I'm familiar with carnitine, it's been around forever but I don't have a lot of faith in it. I am not as familiar with albuteral and will look into it.

    Regarding your advice to not use Anavar without test I will certainly heed that since you are the second person to suggest that. Now my question is, I understand there are several forms available, including prescribed gel for replacement therapies. I doubt that would be sufficient since those dosages are quite low but are there other options outside of injections? Or are injections the only truly effective option? I have not fully decided to go this route but before I make a decision I want to be as informed as possible. I have read countless articles but they are typically general overviews and ignore the specifics that I am trying to narrow down. The more info that anyone can provide the better informed I will be, so truly I appreciate all responses.

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    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Welcome to the forum!

    It's nice to see another Philadelphian on here.

    As dk stated previously using var, or any AAS, without a test base is a very bad idea.

    A test cycle seems perfect for your situation, but I will admit it's a huge commitment and a step to the dark side so to speak.

    If not test then maybe look into albuterol.

    Albut is a β agonist like ephedrine, but the negative side effects tend to be much less.

    If albut seems like too much then maybe you'd be more comfortable with something like synephrine.
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    dk94's Avatar
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    To be clear, carnitine and carnadine are two very different things. Carnitine is an otc herbal supplement while Carnadine is classified as a Sarm and is not available otc. Search for "Carnadine Sarm" or "gw501516" and you can learn what its about.
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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dk94 View Post
    To be clear, carnitine and carnadine are two very different things. Carnitine is an otc herbal supplement while Carnadine is classified as a Sarm and is not available otc. Search for "Carnadine Sarm" or "gw501516" and you can learn what its about.
    Ah, thank you for clarifying... I was wondering why you suggested carnitine. I did search but kept coming up with carnitine so I assumed you mistyped. I will search again and research your suggestion. Thank for the tip.

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    Welcome to the forum!

    It's nice to see another Philadelphian on here.

    As dk stated previously using var, or any AAS, without a test base is a very bad idea.

    A test cycle seems perfect for your situation, but I will admit it's a huge commitment and a step to the dark side so to speak.

    If not test then maybe look into albuterol.
    Thanks for the welcome and for the response. What part of philly? I work in Conshy and live in the burbs.

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Another thought.... I've hearing a lot about Halodrol lately. A fellow gym rat has been talking it up at the gym. A little research reveals it's pretty mild and a good steroid /pro hormone starter. Also seems to be pretty solid as a cutting agent. Have either of you given it a run? Or received any feedback from others?

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Also, if I do decide on test and Anavar are injections my only real option? And how much should a beginner start off with?

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    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    As far as I know halodrol is no longer being produced.

    Pro hormones are unsafe and a complete waste of money.

    If you have time check out the PCT forum.

    There are dozens of threads about guys messing themselves up from PHs.

    If you decide to cycle then you should really just use test for your first run and save the var for another cut.

    First cycles are complicated enough and adding a second compound often proves too much for most.

    If you diet right and train hard a test will deliver amazing results.

    It would be a good idea to read the attached thread below.

    My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

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    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygymrat View Post
    Another thought.... I've hearing a lot about Halodrol lately. A fellow gym rat has been talking it up at the gym. A little research reveals it's pretty mild and a good steroid/pro hormone starter. Also seems to be pretty solid as a cutting agent. Have either of you given it a run? Or received any feedback from others?
    While I don't claim to know much about prohormones/designer steroids ...I regard them as being more dangerous than AAS. Stay away from that trash or listening to any advocates (as if they are worth their salt, having any expertise, they are just blowing smoke your way as to not blow their cover as a closet AAS/ped user).

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygymrat
    Also, if I do decide on test and Anavar are injections my only real option? And how much should a beginner start off with?
    You really need to take a step back and analyze your blood work/hormone levels before considering the dark side. Testosterone is best injected for an array of reasons.... Anavar is a user-friendly oral, but as said within the thread, it's best suited for those who've made a commitment to be on synthetic testosterone.

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    All great responses and you all have helped me narrow down my options. It appears that test solo is my best option. I will also research the carnadine and albuterol options. I assume the suggestion for those two was instead of the test so it appears I simply have to decide between either/or.

    If I do decide upon the test are there any additional supps outside of protein and a mutli that I should consider?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygymrat View Post
    All great responses and you all have helped me narrow down my options. It appears that test solo is my best option. I will also research the carnadine and albuterol options. I assume the suggestion for those two was instead of the test so it appears I simply have to decide between either/or.

    If I do decide upon the test are there any additional supps outside of protein and a mutli that I should consider?
    Read this http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html It helped me with my first cycle. it will talk about all the cycle support drugs you need and will go through pct, Ais etc

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    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygymrat View Post
    If I do decide upon the test are there any additional supps outside of protein and a mutli that I should consider?
    I have a training partner that got some great results by using carnadine on a cut.

    He's also in his early 20s and I'm not sure how much age played a factor.

    Multivitamins are a wast of money if you eat healthy.

    All you really need is NAC and possibly some Dr Tobias fish oil if you need some lubrication in your joints.

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    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygymrat View Post
    If I do decide upon the test are there any additional supps outside of protein and a mutli that I should consider?
    If you decide you're in the market for testosterone , why not go legal and under doctor supervision?

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 956Vette View Post
    If you decide you're in the market for testosterone, why not go legal and under doctor supervision?
    Funny you should ask.... I have been considering that and even alluded to it previously in this thread. At my age it is a concern, especially since I do exhibit all of the symptoms of low T. I have discussed it with my doctor and he mentioned Axiron which is a gel applied under the arm. However, the purpose of this thread was to determine if Anavar could be a solution to a reduction in body fat. I don't think TRT would help in that regard, especially at the low doses typically prescribed. The recommendation that I recieved was not to run Anvar without test. Would the test received in TRT be sufficient to run alongside Anavar? Or would higher doses be required?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygymrat View Post
    Funny you should ask.... I have been considering that and even alluded to it previously in this thread. At my age it is a concern, especially since I do exhibit all of the symptoms of low T. I have discussed it with my doctor and he mentioned Axiron which is a gel applied under the arm. However, the purpose of this thread was to determine if Anavar could be a solution to a reduction in body fat. I don't think TRT would help in that regard, especially at the low doses typically prescribed. The recommendation that I recieved was not to run Anvar without test. Would the test received in TRT be sufficient to run alongside Anavar? Or would higher doses be required?

    Google and take the "Adam Questionnaire" and it will answer your "need" question. Gel's work for many people but quite honestly, it just sucks after a while and you'll find injections to be much easier. Gels / creams are just easier for doctors, considering most doc's do not know hormones anyway. You mentioned low doses for TRT. Well, that low dose may still be quite a bit higher than your natural test and the difference can be dramatic when coupled with a sound nutrition and exercise regimen.

    Yes, the test dose in a quality HRT protocol is sufficient for Anavar . That said, your real first step if to get full blood work and establish your baselines. Who knows, maybe there's something suppressing your endogenous levels a bit that can be fixed. There is an example of what blood work to pull in the Finding A Doc sticky thread in the HRT Forum. Regardless which path you choose, at your age blood work baselines are a smart way to go.

    Best of luck!
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    If your objective is to get down to a particular bodyfat, then i highly recommend to do it naturally. AAS itself will not get you there, you will need to diet in conjunction. A good diet will get you there. When i talk diet it is not just cutting food or calories, it is maintaining a macro level while having a caloric deficit. This is not starving yourself. There are some real experts in the diet section.
    Along with the test, you will need hcg , an AI, and PCT..

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Google and take the "Adam Questionnaire" and it will answer your "need" question. Gel's work for many people but quite honestly, it just sucks after a while and you'll find injections to be much easier. Gels / creams are just easier for doctors, considering most doc's do not know hormones anyway. You mentioned low doses for TRT. Well, that low dose may still be quite a bit higher than your natural test and the difference can be dramatic when coupled with a sound nutrition and exercise regimen.

    Yes, the test dose in a quality HRT protocol is sufficient for Anavar . That said, your real first step if to get full blood work and establish your baselines. Who knows, maybe there's something suppressing your endogenous levels a bit that can be fixed. There is an example of what blood work to pull in the Finding A Doc sticky thread in the HRT Forum. Regardless which path you choose, at your age blood work baselines are a smart way to go.j

    Best of luck!
    Thank you Kelkel... You answered a lot of questions for me. I will discuss it with my doc and will check out the questionnaire.

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    If your objective is to get down to a particular bodyfat, then i highly recommend to do it naturally. AAS itself will not get you there, you will need to diet in conjunction. A good diet will get you there. When i talk diet it is not just cutting food or calories, it is maintaining a macro level while having a caloric deficit. This is not starving yourself. There are some real experts in the diet section.
    Along with the test, you will need hcg, an AI, and PCT..
    Thank you Charger. Regarding my diet, I consider it very sound and it has been for quite some time. It has helped me cut down my body fat but now I have platued for about a month now. I have even gained a little muscle in the process so my weight has increased slightly but the body fat and my waistline are the lowest they have been in a few years. I have calculated my baseline calories to maintain are 2500 per day (this is if sedentary lifestyle since I did not include calories burned via exercise) so I have been sticking with 2,000 per day. Concerning macros, my protein is at 200 g a day and my fiber at 30 g per day. I haven't tracked my carbs and fats but the remainder of my diet is all whole grains, veggies and fruits. I take omega supps and eat a handful of almonds per day but other than that it is pretty low fat and I stay away from all junk, except one evening a week I will have a few sweets just to keep me sane.

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    I recommend that you track your carbs and fat. I know for me, a change in carbs makes a big difference. You might want to try carb cycling.
    The readers digest version is that you will lose weight if you utilize more calories than you consume. If you have hit a plateu then you are at maintenance calories for this bodyweight. Either lower your calories or increase cardio.
    Just be careful...... I have had people tell me that they are consuming <1000 calories and gaining weight. When i find all of the little "cheats" they are doing it explains itself and i find out they are actually consuming over twice what they told me..
    My suggestions:
    Feed your body every 2-3 hours. This will increase your metabolism.
    Try eating carbs early in the day.
    Try lowering about 300-500 calories.

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    I recommend that you track your carbs and fat. I know for me, a change in carbs makes a big difference. You might want to try carb cycling.
    The readers digest version is that you will lose weight if you utilize more calories than you consume. If you have hit a plateu then you are at maintenance calories for this bodyweight. Either lower your calories or increase cardio.
    Just be careful...... I have had people tell me that they are consuming <1000 calories and gaining weight. When i find all of the little "cheats" they are doing it explains itself and i find out they are actually consuming over twice what they told me..
    My suggestions:
    Feed your body every 2-3 hours. This will increase your metabolism.
    Try eating carbs early in the day.
    Try lowering about 300-500 calories.
    Thanks again for the input. I am very careful and OCD with my calorie counting. I track everything.....I mean Everything... Even every stick of gum that I chew so I can tell you exactly how many calories that I consumed any day of the week with 100% accuracy. However, I have not platued because they are too high.... My maintenance without adding in exercise (I train every day for about 40 minutes... All super sets with very minimal resting) is 2,500k while my daily calories hover right around 2,000k. I hit this same dilemma every time I cut. I can only get so lean. I have a small gut that I have never been able to rid myself of, no matter the effort put forth. I have tried adding cardio, I have tried carb cycling, ketogenic diets and even total carb-free. Nothing works to move beyond once I reach this point. Thus, my considering Anavar or something similar in nature. It really is the only thing left to try. However, I have not tracked carbs and fats. Perhaps I should begin doing so but I am not sure what benefit will be obtained so please enlighten me if I am missing something.

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    Alta's Avatar
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    Without reading through this entire thread (just skimming it) you are coming to the forum with the exact same plan I had. I'm 40 years old, thought Anavar because it was "mild", and I didn't want to inject anything.

    Listen to the vets and read this about 4 times.

    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

    Every step in that link is essential. ESPECIALLY baseline bloodwork!

    If you take the plunge, go with test only. Like you, I was in a rush to get gains, and didn't listen anyone here and tossed in Anavar on my first cycle. 3 weeks in I was getting high blood pressure and my liver values went through the roof because I was an idiot that didn't run it with proper ancilliaries. After getting (rightfully) scolded here I ended up going PCT 4 weeks in, making it a total waste of time and money. Don't be like me.

    Cycle #2 a year later was test prop only, while following everything in the "my first cycle" link. It was awesome. I gained about 10-15lbs of lean mass, lost BF, and felt amazing the whole time. BP was never an issue, and liver values were totally normal. Prop is amazing stuff for me.

    Cycle 3 of test only is starting after I drop a few more lbs, nail down my training and meal plan and get all my bloodwork back from the doc.

    Take my advice. One compound, Test only. Use it as your baseline to ensure you don't have any adverse side effects. YOU WILL run more than one cycle if you get through the first one without issues. If you really want to use anavar do it down the road. I wouldn't recommend it after seeing my liver values; there are lots of injectibles that will do the same thing if you get that far that aren't as hard on the liver.

    My $0.02

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alta View Post
    Take my advice. One compound, Test only. Use it as your baseline to ensure you don't have any adverse side effects. there are lots of injectibles that will do the same thing if you get that far that aren't as hard on the liver.

    My $0.02
    Thanks for the advice, Alta... And the voice of reason and experience is definitely more valuable than $0.02, so don't sell yourself short! 😉

    In fact, all of the responses have been invaluable and informative. I sincerely appreciate everyone's input, you all have been great, respectful and very helpful. Furthermore, all the advice has led me to plenty of research and ultimately a plan of action that I think incorporates the best of everything that was advised.

    I have spoken with my family doc and got bloodwork done. He concluded that my test was, in fact, low so he gave me a months supply of topical test on a trial basis and prescribed two pumps per day or 60 mg of test. Hopefully, this will not only improve my overall wellbeing and energy levels but also will improve my body composition. As previously stated, I have ample muscle mass and do not really desire a dramatic increase in lean muscle but I very much do prefer a decrease in body fat, more specifically, a leaner midsection.

    Also noteworthy, I did research the gw501516 as well but could not find anywhere to purchase it, except, oddly enough at a box box retailer. I am very skeptical of purchasing any supplement from a large retailer when my normal supplement sources do not carry the same product. This leads me to believe that this product is most likely a fake. Any thoughts on that? Am I correct in my skepticism?

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    Phillygymrat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dk94 View Post
    Dont run anavar without test, theres nothing otc that can substitute it. If youre interested in cutting check out carnadine (gw501516) and albuteral. These may help in your goal without you having to run a cycle.
    Any idea where one might purchase carnadine? I found it available at Amazon but would Amazon carry a legit carnadine product? Is there a certain brand or brands that You would recommend?

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