Hematocrit 51%: self drawing with my nurse cousin

Hello folks, from BW results, after 2 weeks of cycling with 350mg Test prop/week, hematocrit raised at 51%. I'm going to donate blood, but the center told me that being i did a gastroscopy, it needs to wait 4 months before proceeding :(

So, i called my cousing who is a nurse, to help me to do a self drawing. Tomorrow he will come here to my home to do the job. After taking a baby aspirin and drink a lot of water, do you have some good tips to make the process more relaxed and smoother ? For example, is good to make the blood flow slower to ensure a more gentle drawing lowering any
discomforts ?

Thank you for your time, bro.

P.S: Hemoglobin is around 15.5, so in range... shouldn'it be higher as the hematocrit is over the normal range ?

Take a Valium (prescribed of course :-) - then let let him do his thing ;)... He should have a butterfly w/an catheter like tube(thin rubber) that goes into the vein - making the procedure easier then if using a straight 18g spike into the vein(it's easily doable both ways but easier to blow a vein with a straight 1.5" 18g spike...

It's not bad at all! GL buddy

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Originally Posted by NACH3

Take a Valium - band let him do his job ;)

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Nooo, i prefer to avoid benzo ! :P

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

Nooo, i prefer to avoid benzo ! :P

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^^^ I fixed - avoid benzo and just relax - take deep breaths an be very hydrated eat some sugar after

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Originally Posted by NACH3

^^^ I fixed - avoid benzo and just relax - take deep breaths an be very hydrated eat some sugar after

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Ok, thank you mate. I hope to do not faint... :P

The strange thing is about Hemoglobin that is in range.... maybe for this slight hematocrit arising, it keeps within a normal range still.... ?

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

The strange thing is about Hemoglobin that is in range.... maybe for this slight hematocrit arising, it keeps within a normal range still.... ?

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I noticed that too(which actually puts your hematocrit at 46.5% - if you do the standard x3 of your hemoglobin) - which is great - that's my sweet spot)... I was going to bring it up bug I'd just donate(of sel bleed) you'll feel much better - if your more lethargic than you will feel much better very quickly after - don't lift and just take er easy for the day! Best of luck Slacker

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Originally Posted by NACH3

I noticed that too(which actually puts your hematocrit at 46.5% - if you do the standard x3 of your hemoglobin) - which is great - that's my sweet spot)... I was going to bring it up bug I'd just donate(of sel bleed) you'll feel much better - if your more lethargic than you will feel much better very quickly after - don't lift and just take er easy for the day! Best of luck Slacker

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Thank you mate. Regardless that when hematocrit arise, it's always almost mandatory to donate or doing a self drawing for safety, is it true about that is normal after the first weeks, having an arising of it, which could be even remains stable to that over-range value - keeping the same AAS dosages - ( in my case it's 51% ) without additional increases for all cycle duration ?

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

Thank you mate. Regardless that when hematocrit arise, it's always almost mandatory to donate or doing a self drawing for safety, is it true about that is normal after the first weeks, having an arising of it, which could be even remains stable to that over-range value - keeping the same AAS dosages - ( in my case it's 51% ) without additional increases for all cycle duration ?

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Did you pull BW prior to you starting your cycle? If yes than its pretty quick to rise the way it has... If yes to BW b4 cycle what was your crit range? Has this ever happened b4 this quickly?

Yes definitely keep it under 50% - unless you have some kind of heart problem(I know a few people whose blood runs thicker than normal) but always try and keep track of this - as you know it can cause a stroke if too high for too long!

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Originally Posted by NACH3

Did you pull BW prior to you starting your cycle? If yes than its pretty quick to rise the way it has... If yes to BW b4 cycle what was your crit range? Has this ever happened b4 this quickly?

Yes definitely keep it under 50% - unless you have some kind of heart problem(I know a few people whose blood runs thicker than normal) but always try and keep track of this - as you know it can cause a stroke if too high for too long!

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No, i didn't BW before starting cycle. I know, it's wrong because now it's hard to do a comparison... but in the previous cycle, i used Test Enan 250mg/w and Deca 250/w and Hematocrit didn't arise over 50%; but now i'm using Test Prop and i think the spike it causes, might lead my body to react in different way maybe.

In every case, i think drawing 450ML of blood, could be enough to restore its physiological value. After this drawing, I will do another BW after another 2 weeks, to check the value.

Taking a baby aspirin ED ( 100mg ) and drinking a lot of water, could be - while i wait the blood drawing - to reduce the risk of stroke and other issues ?

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

No, i didn't BW before starting cycle. I know, it's wrong because now it's hard to do a comparison... but in the previous cycle, i used Test Enan 250mg/w and Deca 250/w and Hematocrit didn't arise over 50%; but now i'm using Test Prop and i think the spike it causes, might lead my body to react in different way maybe.

In every case, i think drawing 450ML of blood, could be enough to restore its physiological value. After this drawing, I will do another BW after another 2 weeks, to check the value.

Taking a baby aspirin ED ( 100mg ) and drinking a lot of water, could be - while i wait the blood drawing - to reduce the risk of stroke and other issues ?

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How often are you injecting the prop(eod or ed)?

If your crit was at say 53-55% I'd be much more worried... What made you get this tested? Were you feeling lethargic more often etc? I wouldn't wait... I'd get your friend to drain you(at least a Pint(16oz) should lower it like 2%(that's like a WRBC donation) if he's got the machine(forget name) it returns your plasma(which holds our hormones) you should do a DRBC donation(double red blood cell)...
Just relax and you'll be fine mate!
Cheers

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Originally Posted by NACH3

How often are you injecting the prop(eod or ed)?

If your crit was at say 53-55% I'd be much more worried... What made you get this tested? Were you feeling lethargic more often etc? I wouldn't wait... I'd get your friend to drain you(at least a Pint(16oz) should lower it like 2%(that's like a WRBC donation) if he's got the machine(forget name) it returns your plasma(which holds our hormones) you should do a DRBC donation(double red blood cell)...
Just relax and you'll be fine mate!
Cheers

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I'm really a bit afraid... :D

I inject Test Prop about 100mg EOD with the last weekly injection of 150mg. Take aromasin 12.5mg EOD or 6.25 ED and E2 stays in range. I know critical value is >= 55%. I read here some folks got this value or higher and i wonder how they stay relatively calm, even they booked a donation quickly. Really, i mean how could it be high the chance to have a stroke or other fatal issues, when hematocrit is so high... mostly how much time after keeping this value without lower it with blood drawing.... as i said, aspirin does not reduce hematocrit, but could prevent a stroke, ensuring a defense until the blood drawing.... ?

Make sure you are nice and hydrated and then run your labs again after the blood draw. I have found that short esters raise my crit level were long esters don't

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Originally Posted by Bio-Active

Make sure you are nice and hydrated and then run your labs again after the blood draw. I have found that short esters raise my crit level were long esters don't

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Yes, Bio-Active, it seems short esters cause this where long esters don't to me too. You mean to go to the lab, then to do a BW immediately the day after blood drawing to check the value again ? Or it would be better to wait about 2 weeks before to get another BW ?

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

Yes, Bio-Active, it seems short esters cause this where long esters don't to me too. You mean to go to the lab, then to do a BW immediately the day after blood drawing to check the value again ? Or it would be better to wait about 2 weeks before to get another BW ?

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I ran mast prop and it raised my crit to over 52 were test deca leaves me between 49-50 without even donating blood

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Originally Posted by Bio-Active

I ran mast prop and it raised my crit to over 52 were test deca leaves me between 49-50 without even donating blood

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Yes, me the same. But why this happens ? I think short esters are more aggressive in its life cycle...

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

Hello folks, from BW results, after 2 weeks of cycling with 350mg Test prop/week, hematocrit raised at 51%. I'm going to donate blood, but the center told me that being i did a gastroscopy, it needs to wait 4 months before proceeding :(

So, i called my cousing who is a nurse, to help me to do a self drawing. Tomorrow he will come here to my home to do the job. After taking a baby aspirin and drink a lot of water, do you have some good tips to make the process more relaxed and smoother ? For example, is good to make the blood flow slower to ensure a more gentle drawing lowering any
discomforts ?

Thank you for your time, bro.

P.S: Hemoglobin is around 15.5, so in range... shouldn'it be higher as the hematocrit is over the normal range ?

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51% is nothing to be afraid of. But only two weeks with low dose prop is nothing. But i guess u didnt know your precycle hct?

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Originally Posted by Silabolin

51% is nothing to be afraid of. But only two weeks with low dose prop is nothing. But i guess u didnt know your precycle hct?

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No, i didn't and i wrong i know. But the strange thing is about a Hemoglobin that is around 15.5 and this is strange, so it's in normal range. It could be an error or in hematocrit or in hemoglobin or i don't know.
Further, in these 2 weeks i struggled to adjust E2 and using too much AI ( aromasin ) i lowered it too much. I don't know if an E2 unbalance, take a part in hematocrit raising.....

Further to Hemoglobin value in normale range, the RBC count is in normal range too: this all pretty strange. I have heard there are cases where dehydration, could lead to an increased ratio among blood liquid part and RBC, while the latter are in normal range: just the ratio is altered, so hematocrit. For a reliable hematocrit increasing, i guess hemoglobin and RBC, could be elevated too. In this period, i have sweat a lot and honestly, drunk a little. I think that a little hematocrit increased given by AAS/Test prop, could be overlaped to dehydration, giving this inconsistent result.... it could be good to know what about Austinite and/or Kelkel...

Attachment 163393

Hello! Here is 500ml of my blood. It was very simply and i felt nothing. No faint, no discomforts. I will check crit tomorrow with CBC.

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

Attachment 163393

Hello! Here is 500ml of my blood. It was very simply and i felt nothing. No faint, no discomforts. I will check crit tomorrow with CBC.

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I would give it just a bit more time than that. I generally wait at least 5 days, 3 at a minimum. I've been told you will get a better idea of what your true Hct value is.
Glad it went well for you.

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Originally Posted by almostgone

I would give it just a bit more time than that. I generally wait at least 5 days, 3 at a minimum. I've been told you will get a better idea of what your true Hct value is.
Glad it went well for you.

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Ah ok, thanks Almostgone. So, i will wait around 5 days i will get the BW. I hope to have lowered it a little :)

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

Further to Hemoglobin value in normale range, the RBC count is in normal range too: this all pretty strange. I have heard there are cases where dehydration, could lead to an increased ratio among blood liquid part and RBC, while the latter are in normal range: just the ratio is altered, so hematocrit. For a reliable hematocrit increasing, i guess hemoglobin and RBC, could be elevated too. In this period, i have sweat a lot and honestly, drunk a little. I think that a little hematocrit increased given by AAS/Test prop, could be overlaped to dehydration, giving this inconsistent result.... it could be good to know what about Austinite and/or Kelkel...

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Thats even stranger, I stil strugle to see the difference beetween rbc and hct. Ive researced a lot and had hcttissues myself, but i always thougth hct was the rbc-part of your blood. So if you are low in rbc, how can hct be high?
I think i googled this last summer when i had hct 53% but i dont think i found any good answer.
And questioning my doc is never good, because he has less knowledge on this subjects than an average forum member. Im not joking.

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Originally Posted by Silabolin

Thats even stranger, I stil strugle to see the difference beetween rbc and hct. Ive researced a lot and had hcttissues myself, but i always thougth hct was the rbc-part of your blood. So if you are low in rbc, how can hct be high?
I think i googled this last summer when i had hct 53% but i dont think i found any good answer.
And questioning my doc is never good, because he has less knowledge on this subjects than an average forum member. Im not joking.

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If a RBC count and Hemoglobin are in range BUT crit is higher the normal range, the only explanation could be this: dehydration. Hematocrit is a ratio among liquid part of the blood and RBC. This ratio, could be higher even when you have less fluid in your blood but NOT NECESSARILY by erythropoiesis due AAS/Test; so, the liquid part lowering but HEMOGLOBIN AND RBC remains the same, but the HEMATOCRIT raise. That's what i think about. Hematocrit raising by AAS/Test is a ratio, due an increment of Red Blood Cells an not a liquid deficiency; in this case, you should see Hemoglobin and RBC higher too, accordinly to Hematocrit higher value.

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

Ah ok, thanks Almostgone. So, i will wait around 5 days i will get the BW. I hope to have lowered it a little :)

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You should get a slight reduction. I have to see a oncologist/hematologist because I have a clotting disorder and he was the one that told me waiting a few days after a donation or phlebotomy would give a better representation of your new hematocrit level.

Edit: He didn't give an explanation as to why waiting gave a better result, but I thought In would mention it. Just for reference, 51% hematocrit isn't really terrible, although it is wise to monitor it and do what is needed. :)

Can you post your hemogram?

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Can you post your hemogram?

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I will get it tomorrow from lab. The results were told me by phone by my friend who works there in. Tomorrow, i will post it sure.

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Originally Posted by almostgone

You should get a slight reduction. I have to see a oncologist/hematologist because I have a clotting disorder and he was the one that told me waiting a few days after a donation or phlebotomy would give a better representation of your new hematocrit level.

Edit: He didn't give an explanation as to why waiting gave a better result, but I thought In would mention it. Just for reference, 51% hematocrit isn't really terrible, although it is wise to monitor it and do what is needed. :)

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Ok, i will do Almostgone. Hey, about your clottind disorder, i think you could be suitable to read and provide a good feedback to my last thread http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...gher-risk.html

I would appreciate a lot if you could do it.

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

Ok, i will do Almostgone. Hey, about your clottind disorder, i think you could be suitable to read and provide a good feedback to my last thread http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...gher-risk.html

I would appreciate a lot if you could do it.

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I am at work, but will look at it later today. :) Estrogen control is important, however in my case the clotting risk is also caused by genetics.

However, I know you understand that if my crit raised at 51% with 350mg of Test prop in just 2 weeks, it's better i suspend it at all. I'm not the only one who has crit raised quickly with short esters. The previous cycle i did, with Test Enan and Deca ( 250/w and 250/w, in total 500 of gear ), my crit after 5 weeks, was extraordinarily normal. I was wondering if someone has high crit and interrupt the cycle, in time could it back to its normal level, "spontaneously" ?

I would think so, as the RBC come to the end of their life span and are produced at a normal rate again. Adequate hydration can definitely help with hematocrit values to a degree, and as I mentioned before, some of us naturally run high.

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Originally Posted by almostgone

You should get a slight reduction. I have to see a oncologist/hematologist because I have a clotting disorder and he was the one that told me waiting a few days after a donation or phlebotomy would give a better representation of your new hematocrit level.

Edit: He didn't give an explanation as to why waiting gave a better result, but I thought In would mention it. Just for reference, 51% hematocrit isn't really terrible, although it is wise to monitor it and do what is needed. :)

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I am no doctor (although I have played one on the web) but its always been my assumption that because the body regenerates most of the constituents (other than RBC's) very quickly that you need to wait a few days to allow this process to take place...after all this is why removing blood has an effect...if you test right after removing a pint the only difference you are likely to see is due to the loss of blood volume.

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Originally Posted by almostgone

I would think so, as the RBC come to the end of their life span and are produced at a normal rate again. Adequate hydration can definitely help with hematocrit values to a degree, and as I mentioned before, some of us naturally run high.

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Yes, i'm agree. The blood drawn/donation, is done in order to continue the cycle without risk and/or quickly, lowering the thrombosis risk.

I think i will stop the cycle. My tests are still good, and i think in a week, i will re-balance my hormonal attitude without get a PCT. Never more Test prop ... ! :P

PS For others reading this thread and contemplating "Self Bleeding" you can do this with a needle of a smaller gauge by using vacuum to increase flow. The blood passing through the smaller needle will damage the blood cells themselves (which is no concern for us since we are dumping the blood) this is the reason when donating blood they have to use a larger needle/tube to draw.

I took a 1500ml lab bottle and plumbed two pieces of flexible tubing into the cap. One only inserts just past the cap and runs to a handheld vacuum pump (about 20 dollars) the other goes a couple of inches into the jar and runs to the needle or better yet (winged infusion set, the needle with butterfly and small med grade hose attached) by doing it this way a 21-23 gauge needle will provide plenty of flow of even high RBC blood. Just insert needle into vein, tape down to arm and pump the pump until you see the blood coming into the bottle in a rapid series of droplets just short of a stream ( Do Not use too much vacuum where the blood is coming into the bottle like a garden hose as this could collapse a vein).

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Originally Posted by Far from massive

PS For others reading this thread and contemplating "Self Bleeding" you can do this with a needle of a smaller gauge by using vacuum to increase flow. The blood passing through the smaller needle will damage the blood cells themselves (which is no concern for us since we are dumping the blood) this is the reason when donating blood they have to use a larger needle/tube to draw.

I took a 1500ml lab bottle and plumbed two pieces of flexible tubing into the cap. One only inserts just past the cap and runs to a handheld vacuum pump (about 20 dollars) the other goes a couple of inches into the jar and runs to the needle or better yet (winged infusion set, the needle with butterfly and small med grade hose attached) by doing it this way a 21-23 gauge needle will provide plenty of flow of even high RBC blood. Just insert needle into vein, tape down to arm and pump the pump until you see the blood coming into the bottle in a rapid series of droplets just short of a stream ( Do Not use too much vacuum where the blood is coming into the bottle like a garden hose as this could collapse a vein).

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m

Good info right there FFM!
If you don't mind -- do you know whereby get a 'butterfly' w/the tubing that goes inside the vein? I've looked but maybe not hard enough :-p it would surely save the veins ;)