My first cycle please help

[SteroidsRGood]

My cycle will be a 20 week long cycle, approx. 5 months


Dianabol: 25mg per day - for first 6 weeks

Testosterone enthate: 500mg per week - for first 15 weeks

Deca-Durabolin: 500mg per week - for first 15 weeks

Arimidex 1mg every second day(or third day day??) - for first 15 weeks

_________

Take a break for 16th & 17th week

_________

PCT : Nolvadex

18th week
40 mg everyday

19th week
40mg everyday

20th week
20 mg everyday

____________________________

This will be my first cycle if I get good responses back, If i need to change it up PLEASE tell me what to do. I came here to learn and gain knowledge, because I don't have anyone I know personally that can help. I WANT TO learn, so please give me constructive criticism. I will be taking steroids though, there is no question about it, I just want to go about this the right way. I also have a few specific questions about my cycle:

1. Should I use Aromasin over Arimidex for my AI? (I heard aromasin is better than arimidex for Ai apparently)

2. Whether I choose aromasin or arimidex should I have letrozole by my hand just in case? ( I hear people say to keep this by hand just in case(not sure why, since I thought they were all just ai's but am wondering)

3. Should I use clomid alongside Nolvadex for my PCT? or will Nolvadex suffice?


My diet and everything is good, My training is good. I am 5'10" and 150 lbs roughly. very slim but muscular so I'm told........ but any comments and constructive criticism on my first cycle is welcomed. Obviously I don't know everything so I realize my cycle may not be great, but that is why I am here to ask more experienced users to help me fix it up a bit...... I will also be taking a long break 5-10 months after my cycle is finished, or possibly never do another cycle again. Right now Im just focusing on this cycle though.

[marcus300]

First your to young to cycle imho and doing a cycle especially your first for 20 weeks is asking for a trouble. Your using to many compounds and you don't have a foundation to use steroids. The problems with you building muscle is your diet and training because at 150lbs it screams out at you.

So please be educated about this because steroids wont work for you, you will lose everything from the cycle and probably left with serious side effects, your diet and training cant and wont support any new muscle tissue if they did you would be more that 150bs.

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies

[SteroidsRGood]

This is the EXACT response that is not constructive, i didnt even mention my age first off, and first thing you say I am too young to cycle, haha what a joke of a response, i cant respect that at all. seriously thats a big joke, for you to say that when i made no mention of my age

[SteroidsRGood]

How old are you marcus,

[SteroidsRGood]

please can i get actual constructive criticism on how to BETTER MY cycle if its not good enough

[FONZY007]

please can i get actual constructive criticism on how to BETTER MY cycle if its not good enough

So how old are u?

[SteroidsRGood]

i would have expected a better answer from what seems to be a experienced user both on this site and with steroids, but am very disappointed. very big shame.

[SteroidsRGood]

So how old are u?

i am 26 going on 27 in two months. but in all due respect honestly i fail to see why this matters, cus someone who is gonna take steroids, is gonna take steroids regardless. whether i was 20 or 26........ the best thing i can get here is how to better my cycle if its not already good enough, saying i shouldnt take them is out of the equation, (let me know the possible side effects, sure), but saying i shouldnt take them basically comes off as disrespectful towards me. especially with the fact marcus mentioned im too young when i clearly made no mention of my age.

[marcus300]

This is the EXACT response that is not constructive, i didnt even mention my age first off, and first thing you say I am too young to cycle, haha what a joke of a response, i cant respect that at all. seriously thats a big joke, for you to say that when i made no mention of my age

Your profile states 22yrs old. If that's not correct it doesn't differ from what else I said. You shouldn't be cycling for 20 weeks on your first cycle with all those compounds when your diet and training are on key, if your diet and training were on point you wouldn't be 150lbs, you need to build a base.

[FONZY007]

i am 26 going on 27 in two months. but in all due respect honestly i fail to see why this matters, cus someone who is gonna take steroids, is gonna take steroids regardless. whether i was 20 or 26........ the best thing i can get here is how to better my cycle if its not already good enough, saying i shouldnt take them is out of the equation, (let me know the possible side effects, sure), but saying i shouldnt take them basically comes off as disrespectful towards me. especially with the fact marcus mentioned im too young when i clearly made no mention of my age.

True, but the help your going to get will very little to none. I personally used at 20 years old. Then at your age I was prescribed trt so I been on for 8 years. We try to incourage smart thinking which a 20 year old might not do.

For your cycle, personally I would just stay with Test for the 1st 2 to 3 cycles.. I grew like a weed that way. Then added dbol, deca, and then finally tren.

I think you can change your diet and maybe 500-600mg a week of test would be best..

It seems today everyone want to use massive amounts..

I'm 34 yrs old, I have yet to use over a gram of test, 400mg of deca, 400mg of tren(per week) 50mg of dbol(per day only used 25mg )yet. granted I might not look the best. But I'm coming to terms that it might to be time to up some things.

But to be honest, diet is number 1, I have to eat much cleaner as I'm getting older.. can't get away from cheating that easy no more..

Hope some of this info helps

Fonz

[SteroidsRGood]

Your profile states 22yrs old. If that's not correct it doesn't differ from what else I said. You shouldn't be cycling for 20 weeks on your first cycle with all those compounds when your diet and training are on key, if your diet and training were on point you wouldn't be 150lbs, you need to build a base.

ok so thats why i mentioned what should i be cycling with and how long, as i asked in my question hwo COULD i fix my cycle, IVE READ A LOT OF BEGINNERS cycle and it was about 17 weeks long roughly, that includes pct, so mines is at most 3 weeks longer. if anything i can cut it down to 17 weeks, but you could be a little more helpful and help me fix it up which would be constructive, rather then just saying 20 is too long.


you are assuming things, but know so little, my diet and training are fine, if i wanted criticism on that i would have asked for it, again it just comes off as disrespectful as i already mentioned, my diet contains of mostly fruits and veggies, and chicken as well,......... as long as my diet is healthy im good,. i am confident in my diet, and i cant emphasize enough how you are coming off as disrespectful when i already made it clear that i am only focusing on my cycle now, because as mentioned i am very confident in my diet, ... saying my diet and training is not on point cus i weigh 150 lbs is very offensive, we all have different body types

[YellowFever]

well these people actually just disuaded me from starting my first steroid cycle and i put up some good arguments and am very hard headed and even now i want to ignore them fortunatly for me they know what they are talking about ... first off your diet and training sucks... 150 is pretty scrawny respectfully you need to learn how to actually build muscle if...your going to build muscle.... steroids produce and ideal environment for your body to do so but if you dont know how to do it you wont regardless...theres no point in arguing its evident in your stats...and i thought i was good with almost the same stats and 15 lbs heavier..that being said dbol generally shouldnt be taken longer than 4 weeks ...its terrible for your liver your cycle is way too long and your taking compounds that come with a lot of side effects, and because youve never tried steroids before you wont be able to tell which of these compounds are causing the side effects...also aromasin tends to be a bit better on the lipid profiles also your PCT is too short...because your cycle is too long... keep in mind I havnt done steroids yet but ive looked into it quite a bit and i can tell this is a recipe for disaster be careful...most places recomend a test only cycle first and you will put on plenty of muscle...be careful mate

[marcus300]

i am 26 going on 27 in two months. but in all due respect honestly i fail to see why this matters, cus someone who is gonna take steroids, is gonna take steroids regardless. whether i was 20 or 26........ the best thing i can get here is how to better my cycle if its not already good enough, saying i shouldnt take them is out of the equation, (let me know the possible side effects, sure), but saying i shouldnt take them basically comes off as disrespectful towards me. especially with the fact marcus mentioned im too young when i clearly made no mention of my age.

I've change many younger guys not to cycle so your completely wrong when you say they will cycle anyway, they wont or I should say the educated ones wouldn't.

I actually don't believe your age, why would you complete your profile with 22yrs old and not your real age - anyway other than that your not ready to cycle but its clear to me your a know it all and you don't need my answers or knowledge so I wont respond anymore to your questions, fill your fuking boots son

[SteroidsRGood]

True, but the help your going to get will very little to none. I personally used at 20 years old. Then at your age I was prescribed trt so I been on for 8 years. We try to incourage smart thinking which a 20 year old might not do.

For your cycle, personally I would just stay with Test for the 1st 2 to 3 cycles.. I grew like a weed that way. Then added dbol, deca, and then finally tren.

I think you can change your diet and maybe 500-600mg a week of test would be best..

It seems today everyone want to use massive amounts..

I'm 34 yrs old, I have yet to use over a gram of test, 400mg of deca, 400mg of tren(per week) 50mg of dbol(per day only used 25mg )yet. granted I might not look the best. But I'm coming to terms that it might to be time to up some things.

But to be honest, diet is number 1, I have to eat much cleaner as I'm getting older.. can't get away from cheating that easy no more..

Hope some of this info helps

Fonz

ok so you are saying just get rid of the deca and dianabol, and just do the test? if so that is fair enough, what about the arimidex, should i still be using that in case of the gyno?

[SteroidsRGood]

I've change many younger guys not to cycle so your completely wrong when you say they will cycle anyway, they wont or I should say the educated ones wouldn't.

I actually don't believe your age, why would you complete your profile with 22yrs old and not your real age - anyway other than that your not ready to cycle but its clear to me your a know it all and you don't need my answers or knowledge so I wont respond anymore to your questions, fill your fuking boots son

lol you're quite funny, ill give you that. but as i mentioned someone who really wants to cycle is gonna cycle, those people you changed minds of, didnt really want to cycle in the first place. they were on the fence...... thats the simple truth, but thats besides the point. i just quickly chose a random date of birth when making this account, literally just clicked on it. Again you are coming off as disrespectful, you are acting like u know me personally to claim i am not ready to cycle, rather then just taking out the time to help better my cycle, you use it to bash and say dont cycle, that is what leads to people misusing steroids if anything,...... what im doing here is trying to find the best way i can use steroids with as little side effects as possible, to do them the safest way,

[SteroidsRGood]

well these people actually just disuaded me from starting my first steroid cycle and i put up some good arguments and am very hard headed and even now i want to ignore them fortunatly for me they know what they are talking about ... first off your diet and training sucks... 150 is pretty scrawny respectfully you need to learn how to actually build muscle if...your going to build muscle.... steroids produce and ideal environment for your body to do so but if you dont know how to do it you wont regardless...theres no point in arguing its evident in your stats...and i thought i was good with almost the same stats and 15 lbs heavier..that being said dbol generally shouldnt be taken longer than 4 weeks ...its terrible for your liver your cycle is way too long and your taking compounds that come with a lot of side effects, and because youve never tried steroids before you wont be able to tell which of these compounds are causing the side effects...also aromasin tends to be a bit better on the lipid profiles also your PCT is too short...because your cycle is too long... keep in mind I havnt done steroids yet but ive looked into it quite a bit and i can tell this is a recipe for disaster be careful...most places recomend a test only cycle first and you will put on plenty of muscle...be careful mate

everybody has different builds, by no means is 150 scrawny for me, i am absolutely happy at 150 lbs naturally, but wouldnt mind getting bigger whether synthetically or naturally................................. i am a very muscular 150 lbs, so i dont need to hear that i need to LEARN how to put on muscle, its just a waste of time honestly, no disrespect to you, but it comes off as disrespectful to me just even hearing that when you dont know me.......... everybody body type is different at that, and eating habits are different, my diet may consist mostly of veggies, which are low in calories so do the math, ........ secondly, saying my cycle is way too long, most first cycles i hear of are 17 weeks long(this includes pct).......... my cycle is at most 20 weeks long(this includes pct),,............. so i dont see how a 3 week longer period makes a huge difference, but if it does please be a little more explanatory......... are u claiming a 17 week long cycle is too much too, because i read a lot of articles that say otherwise. again this is including pct.

[SteroidsRGood]

well these people actually just disuaded me from starting my first steroid cycle and i put up some good arguments and am very hard headed and even now i want to ignore them fortunatly for me they know what they are talking about ... first off your diet and training sucks... 150 is pretty scrawny respectfully you need to learn how to actually build muscle if...your going to build muscle.... steroids produce and ideal environment for your body to do so but if you dont know how to do it you wont regardless...theres no point in arguing its evident in your stats...and i thought i was good with almost the same stats and 15 lbs heavier..that being said dbol generally shouldnt be taken longer than 4 weeks ...its terrible for your liver your cycle is way too long and your taking compounds that come with a lot of side effects, and because youve never tried steroids before you wont be able to tell which of these compounds are causing the side effects...also aromasin tends to be a bit better on the lipid profiles also your PCT is too short...because your cycle is too long... keep in mind I havnt done steroids yet but ive looked into it quite a bit and i can tell this is a recipe for disaster be careful...most places recomend a test only cycle first and you will put on plenty of muscle...be careful mate

you need to be a little more descriptive, honestly...................... saying my cycle is too long is not helpful enough, be descriptive if you claim my cycle is too long, then what should it be cut down to, i will listen to those who have knowledge........... if someone tells me not to eat this apple, even when im hungry, unless he gives me another option, then im gonna eat the apple, ............... you feel me.......... thats what im saying here, if the 20 weeks is too long give me another option, 12 weeks, 17 weeks etc?

[SteroidsRGood]

you don't need my answers or knowledge so I wont respond anymore to your questions, fill your fuking boots son

thank you, this is the best thing you've said thus far, in all due respect.

[SteroidsRGood]

well these people actually just disuaded me from starting my first steroid cycle and i put up some good arguments and am very hard headed and even now i want to ignore them fortunatly for me they know what they are talking about ... first off your diet and training sucks... 150 is pretty scrawny respectfully you need to learn how to actually build muscle if...your going to build muscle.... steroids produce and ideal environment for your body to do so but if you dont know how to do it you wont regardless...theres no point in arguing its evident in your stats...and i thought i was good with almost the same stats and 15 lbs heavier..that being said dbol generally shouldnt be taken longer than 4 weeks ...its terrible for your liver your cycle is way too long and your taking compounds that come with a lot of side effects, and because youve never tried steroids before you wont be able to tell which of these compounds are causing the side effects...also aromasin tends to be a bit better on the lipid profiles also your PCT is too short...because your cycle is too long... keep in mind I havnt done steroids yet but ive looked into it quite a bit and i can tell this is a recipe for disaster be careful...most places recomend a test only cycle first and you will put on plenty of muscle...be careful mate

how old are you, first off

[SteroidsRGood]

True, but the help your going to get will very little to none. I personally used at 20 years old. Then at your age I was prescribed trt so I been on for 8 years. We try to incourage smart thinking which a 20 year old might not do.

For your cycle, personally I would just stay with Test for the 1st 2 to 3 cycles.. I grew like a weed that way. Then added dbol, deca, and then finally tren.

I think you can change your diet and maybe 500-600mg a week of test would be best..

It seems today everyone want to use massive amounts..

I'm 34 yrs old, I have yet to use over a gram of test, 400mg of deca, 400mg of tren(per week) 50mg of dbol(per day only used 25mg )yet. granted I might not look the best. But I'm coming to terms that it might to be time to up some things.

But to be honest, diet is number 1, I have to eat much cleaner as I'm getting older.. can't get away from cheating that easy no more..

Hope some of this info helps

Fonz

this was GENERALLY helpful, so thank you ! i want to learn and this has actually helped

[FONZY007]

ok so you are saying just get rid of the deca and dianabol, and just do the test? if so that is fair enough, what about the arimidex, should i still be using that in case of the gyno?

Correct.. still use the arimidex.

[YellowFever]

W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
W 13 Nolva 20mg 2x/d or Clomid 50mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Nolva 20mg/d or Clomid 25mg/d

this is what your first cycle should look like generally you dont want to stack several compounds right off the bat because its dangerous these are not drugs like heroin...which is not a simple drug either but long term wise id rather recomend heroin to someone because its almost always reversable unless your dead.. you can permanently change the chemistry of your body forever which is why you want to stay with just the test for your first cycle and add 1 compound more for every new cycle if you want to experiment..that way you can learn how to control your estrogen levels (no gyno, you wont destroy your joints, and keep a sex drive) while on cycle and see how your body reacts to each compound...that way when you get a new side effect that you didnt see on the test only and youve added a new compound you can understand better why that side effect is there and learn how to get rid of it 12 weeks would be my tops for someone who hasnt touched them before because the longer the cycle and the more stuff you use the harsher the side effects and the longer it will take to recover..you dont want to be suicidally depressed unable to have sex or let alone get up and go to work for several months on end so you also want to be able to judge how your first PCT goes...also 150 is scrawny..im 5'10 and the problem with being that size and being on steroids is that you will have tremendous strength gains and your joints and bones will not be ready to deal with the newfound load..you could come out of a cycle with arthritis or very serious structural damage that will not go away easily if at all...there are generally recommended weight "classes" for each person using steroids and this ensures that you are naturally able to handle a certain amount of weight without hurting yourself...and if you wanted you could gain 20 lbs in the next 5-6 months naturally if you learned how to eat bettter..i did the past several months...also i learned all of this by using google, as i have never taken gear before...you could of as well be careful man

[YellowFever]

im 24

[marcus300]

If your diet and training was on key you wouldn't weigh the same as a women, your to blond you cant see if and that's why you will lose everything you will gain, I also don't believe your the age you say, your profile is 22yrs old.

You have no idea that's obvious due to your skinny size and I wasn't be disrespectful I was helping you, being disrespectful would be telling an arrogant cvnt like to fuk off and use what you like and you deserve everything you get from doing such a long cycle at your age with so many compounds without research.

Anyway I will let some other 20 yr old answer your question lol

don't worry I wont open this again, good luck you'll need it and biy I didn't need to be speaking to numb nutts like you today

[GirlyGymRat]

The fellas are giving u constructive advice. You need to be receptive and open and honest with your current stats. I have a feeling you are a hard gainer (at 5'10 and 150 lbs). This will be your friend later in life. Trust me. Now, not so much. Life's that way.

May I ask what your food bill is a week? No supplements no protein shakes. No protein bars. Just food please.

[Proximal]

What's your trading history (howl long & how much) - what are your current workouts like? What is your real age? Have you given everything you have & put them into your workouts, along with a solid diet - and despite that, fail to progress? Would you be kind enough to give me answers to those, appreciated.

[SteroidsRGood]

Correct.. still use the arimidex.

Thank you will give it a go.

[SteroidsRGood]

W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
W 13 Nolva 20mg 2x/d or Clomid 50mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Nolva 20mg/d or Clomid 25mg/d

this is what your first cycle should look like generally you dont want to stack several compounds right off the bat because its dangerous these are not drugs like heroin...which is not a simple drug either but long term wise id rather recomend heroin to someone because its almost always reversable unless your dead.. you can permanently change the chemistry of your body forever which is why you want to stay with just the test for your first cycle and add 1 compound more for every new cycle if you want to experiment..that way you can learn how to control your estrogen levels (no gyno, you wont destroy your joints, and keep a sex drive) while on cycle and see how your body reacts to each compound...that way when you get a new side effect that you didnt see on the test only and youve added a new compound you can understand better why that side effect is there and learn how to get rid of it 12 weeks would be my tops for someone who hasnt touched them before because the longer the cycle and the more stuff you use the harsher the side effects and the longer it will take to recover..you dont want to be suicidally depressed unable to have sex or let alone get up and go to work for several months on end so you also want to be able to judge how your first PCT goes...also 150 is scrawny..im 5'10 and the problem with being that size and being on steroids is that you will have tremendous strength gains and your joints and bones will not be ready to deal with the newfound load..you could come out of a cycle with arthritis or very serious structural damage that will not go away easily if at all...there are generally recommended weight "classes" for each person using steroids and this ensures that you are naturally able to handle a certain amount of weight without hurting yourself...and if you wanted you could gain 20 lbs in the next 5-6 months naturally if you learned how to eat bettter..i did the past several months...also i learned all of this by using google, as i have never taken gear before...you could of as well be careful man

this is a good response, although you called me scrawny lol, people tell me im built for my body type, cus i have broad shoulders. i think we all just have different body types is all....... nothing about being scrawny.

[SteroidsRGood]

What's your trading history (howl long & how much) - what are your current workouts like? What is your real age? Have you given everything you have & put them into your workouts, along with a solid diet - and despite that, fail to progress? Would you be kind enough to give me answers to those, appreciated.

training history - 2 years and 4 days per week of training.

I haven't failed to progress is the thing, just because am 150 lbs doesn't mean I failed to progress, as I've mentioned my diet consist mostly of fruits and veggies and some chicken......... that doesn't mean failure it just means im healthy......... 150 is not an unhealthy or scrawny weight.

[GirlyGymRat]

OP being selective on replies to post. My question is valid too.

[GirlyGymRat]

training history - 2 years and 4 days per week of training. I haven't failed to progress is the thing, just because am 150 lbs doesn't mean I failed to progress, as I've mentioned my diet consist mostly of fruits and veggies and some chicken......... that doesn't mean failure it just means im healthy......... 150 is not an unhealthy or scrawny weight.

Post up a pic. Keep it clean. No need to show your face.

[Proximal]

No, I'm not being argumentative or judgemental - please you misinterpreted, o.k.? And BTW, let's drop the words Scrawny & Skinny. To me they are as just as rude as calling someone fat. And yes, I am sensitive because I am one of those people.

My point was, perhaps max out your own genetic potential with training & diet alone, before making what could very well be a life long commitment to AAS. Nothing wrong with having a healthy diet, but weather you are using AAS or not, you still will need to add to what you listed.

[GirlyGymRat]

training history - 2 years and 4 days per week of training. I haven't failed to progress is the thing, just because am 150 lbs doesn't mean I failed to progress, as I've mentioned my diet consist mostly of fruits and veggies and some chicken......... that doesn't mean failure it just means im healthy......... 150 is not an unhealthy or scrawny weight.

I am interested in your nutrition. I see you are not vegan. What your daily intake and macros pls.

[SteroidsRGood]

OP being selective on replies to post. My question is valid too.

lmaoo,

[SteroidsRGood]

I am interested in your nutrition. I see you are not vegan. What your daily intake and macros pls.

i dont do all that macro nonsense honestly. i mean i get roughly 2500 calories per day in, maybe 3000, and 80-100 grams of protein. i dont follow the carb or fat thing , since i mostly eat fruits & veggies, and chicken

[SteroidsRGood]

Post up a pic. Keep it clean. No need to show your face.

you're funny lol,

[SteroidsRGood]

Post up a pic. Keep it clean. No need to show your face.

if you post a pic then i will, im new here right, so to get me comfortable if i saw what others looked like first then i can post as well, not just you in general but anybody.

[Proximal]

I have a feeling you are a hard gainer (at 5'10 and 150 lbs). This will be your friend later in life. Trust me. Now, not so much. Life's that way.

Trust me GGR, it never becomes your friend, frankly I never ceased despising it and it's why I'm generally angry/pissed in the gym - and that hasn't changed in almost 40 years now.

[SteroidsRGood]

No, I'm not being argumentative or judgemental - please you misinterpreted, o.k.? And BTW, let's drop the words Scrawny & Skinny. To me they are as just as rude as calling someone fat. And yes, I am sensitive because I am one of those people.

My point was, perhaps max out your own genetic potential with training & diet alone, before making what could very well be a life long commitment to AAS. Nothing wrong with having a healthy diet, but weather you are using AAS or not, you still will need to add to what you listed.

I wasn't mentioning that you said that, the other poster mentioned scrawny and i do agree with you, its very disrespectful to call someone that m just like call someone fat if not worse................ I respect your responses and had no issue with them at all.

[GirlyGymRat]

Trust me GGR, it never becomes your friend, frankly I never ceased despising it and it's why I'm generally angry/pissed in the gym - and that hasn't changed in almost 40 years now.

One of my gf is a hard gainer. She can no longer trains for full marathon bc she can't keep the weight on. I would rather enjoy that problem vs being an easy gainer which is my destiny.

Both are undesirable. Understood.

OP is looking for the pill the shot but likely isn't eating enough for his metabolism. I get it. He's frustrated. He's not satisfied. Maybe he'll figure it out someday.