Does the diet need to change when on cycle?

[mmigowski]

Hi guys,

I am about to go on my first cycle using 500mg of Test E per week only. I am 35 and have been training for 6 years now. My diet is pretty clean and seems to work for me now but I don't know if I need to change anything when I'm on cycle. My details are:
- 75kg (165 lbs)
- 173cm (5'8")
- my macros are: Protein: 180g; Fat: 70g; Carbs: 440g.

As ia said, the diet has been working for me, with weight training 5x a week plus low intensity cardio 4x week (30min) but I don't know if I need to change anything when I'm using Test?

Any comments will be appreciated,

many thanks. Martin

[Mr.BB]

Quick math tells me you are ingesting 3110 cals, so you are probably about 3-400 cals above TDEE.
It will work but maybe increase a bit more as the cycle progresses and your weight go up.

You should recalculate TDEE as your bodyweight increases.

[Cody95]

Hi guys,

I am about to go on my first cycle using 500mg of Test E per week only. I am 35 and have been training for 6 years now. My diet is pretty clean and seems to work for me now but I don't know if I need to change anything when I'm on cycle. My details are:
- 75kg (165 lbs)
- 173cm (5'8")
- my macros are: Protein: 180g; Fat: 70g; Carbs: 440g.

As ia said, the diet has been working for me, with weight training 5x a week plus low intensity cardio 4x week (30min) but I don't know if I need to change anything when I'm using Test?

Any comments will be appreciated,

many thanks. Martin

You're only 165lbs you can put on another 20 naturally. Easy.

[01dragonslayer]

Its all dependent on what your goals are for your cycle. Bulking or cutting can be done with a variable of different combinations of AS. You diet and cardio routine is what will really make the difference.

[Metalject]

You're only 165lbs you can put on another 20 naturally. Easy.

He doesn't want to put it on naturally, he wants to use testosterone. If someone is training hard and eating right, unless they're abnormally skinny or obese and is otherwise healthy, if an extreme doesn't exist, I see no problem using gear.

As for the OP's question, my answer has always been as follows. The entire point of using gear is to take what you're already doing right but to do it a little bit better. Will you need to adjust your diet along the way? Time will tell, what your goals are and how things progress will indicate the need should it exists, and at that point you can adjust in the direction you need.

[Cody95]

He doesn't want to put it on naturally, he wants to use testosterone. If someone is training hard and eating right, unless they're abnormally skinny or obese and is otherwise healthy, if an extreme doesn't exist, I see no problem using gear.

As for the OP's question, my answer has always been as follows. The entire point of using gear is to take what you're already doing right but to do it a little bit better. Will you need to adjust your diet along the way? Time will tell, what your goals are and how things progress will indicate the need should it exists, and at that point you can adjust in the direction you need.

He's too small to be using gear simple as that. He needs to build a better foundation before he starts juicing. 165 is not a good foundation, more like 180-190

[Proximal]

Respect your opinion, but humbly disagree. He's put his time in training wise & appears to have good nutrition sense, plus age is not an issue. Perhaps he's a hard gainer - same situation here; nothing worked until I used T. Good luck with your cycle!

[Charlie67]

Hi guys,

I am about to go on my first cycle using 500mg of Test E per week only. I am 35 and have been training for 6 years now. My diet is pretty clean and seems to work for me now but I don't know if I need to change anything when I'm on cycle. My details are:
- 75kg (165 lbs)
- 173cm (5'8")
- my macros are: Protein: 180g; Fat: 70g; Carbs: 440g.

As ia said, the diet has been working for me, with weight training 5x a week plus low intensity cardio 4x week (30min) but I don't know if I need to change anything when I'm using Test?

Any comments will be appreciated,

many thanks. Martin

If you've been maintaining your weight at that pace/workout/lifestyle, then you either need to increase your calories, or cut some of the cardio. If you want to GAIN, you need to make more calories available... If your going to keep doing what you're doing, eat more.

I don't change my workouts just because I'm on cycle. I usually run one workout program for 10 to 12 weeks, then switch. That guides my decisions more so than being on cycle.

[MMA_Influenced]

You're only 165lbs you can put on another 20 naturally. Easy.

Negative my friend maximum lean body mass for someone at 5"8 (average guy genetically) is 150 pounds.

http://www.builtlean.com/2011/03/30/...ain-naturally/

To put that in perspectice he could weigh 160 pounds be genetically maxed out (especially in his late 30s) and have 6 percent bodyfat even.

The important part of the equation is his BF% which he didnt provide us.

In the bodybuilding world 2 major misconceptions always make me shake my head:

1. How off people are on what their bodyfat percentage is.
2. How wrong they are about what is achieveable naturally.

At 5"8 160 he would look like a beast at 6% bodyfat but that is genetic max.

We dont know his lean body mass but his lean body mas max naturally is 150 so.. let that one sink in.

[MMA_Influenced]

He's too small to be using gear simple as that. He needs to build a better foundation before he starts juicing. 165 is not a good foundation, more like 180-190

Sorry but your totally clueless. Im not sure why you are but you definitely are.

First of all if he was 180-190 pounds at 5"8 and 12 percent bodyfat (recommended minimum to start a cycle) he would be at 159-167 pounds lean body mass respectively. Thats 9-17 pounds what is the average natural body builders genetif max. And yes I mean body builders.. guys who train for YEARS to reach that point. This is what guys get to after years of training and dieting properly. They max out at 150 leanbody mass at 5"8.

I think it was absolutely telling at your actual level of knowledge that you never asked him his body fat percentage and never cared. Simply said he needs to be at 190. But 180-190 what? Should he be 150 pounds leanbody mass (genetic max lbm) +40 pounds of fat to be ready for a cycle? Obviously not. Hes not going to start downing cheese burgers and pizza to get fat enough for a cycle.

Now I dont know if A. You have been juicing so long you just dont know whats going on or B. You never understood your body or how to calculate your bodyfat percentage (lots of people get this wrong even using calipers or a tape measure). But you are way off base giving information to this guy. Maybe know your compounds but you dont know your body.

This is a HUGE misconception. With prowrestling/pro sports everyone uses them as a barometer to realize what is normal. A. Pro sports lies about guys both height and weight and B. They are big time jucing. Its not natural.

OP what is your bodyfat percentage at? This will let us know your level of fitness.. do you know how to properly check?

At 165 at 5"8 you could be perfectly ready for a cycle or you could have a 125 pound LBM and still have a lot of potential.

Either way you can still cycle if you have been working out. You will achieve and surpass what would take years in just a few months (with perfect diet/strong gear/ample rest). Dont think everyone on here knows what they are talking about. There is plenty of bull and also plenty of people who are on gear but dont really understand their bodies and arent as experienced lifting as you think.

[MMA_Influenced]

If you've been maintaining your weight at that pace/workout/lifestyle, then you either need to increase your calories, or cut some of the cardio. If you want to GAIN, you need to make more calories available... If your going to keep doing what you're doing, eat more.

I don't change my workouts just because I'm on cycle. I usually run one workout program for 10 to 12 weeks, then switch. That guides my decisions more so than being on cycle.

See? All these guys giving advice and they have no clue. So many people think they are hard gainers when in reality they are normal thanks to advice like this.

http://www.builtlean.com/2011/03/30/...ain-naturally/

There are multiple well known bodybuilding forumulas provided there. Take your pic. Without steroids and following a body building life style it would take him at 5"8 years to reach his genetic potential of roughly 150 pounds lean body mass.

OP you are fine. My advice is to increase your food intake until you cant put lean mass anymore without gaining too much fat.

If your gear is legit you would still need to do your own research and tests on your body. This is what people dont unserscore enough. Your body is different than the rest. You need to learn this on your own.

I would start at 500 cal surplus over maintainence a day and increase to 750.. constantly take measurements of your waistline and check your BF% If your BF percentage is going higher you probably need to drop some calories every day.

On your first cycle you will need to guess and test. Some people go up to 1000 calories a day over maintainence and stay lean and put on mostly muscle and even see their BF percentage DROP. For a first cycle like i said its going to mean dipping your toe in the water and checking the temperature.

I like you have trained and have been body buolding naturally for many years straight and am about to do my first cycle. However I understand the variables:

1. Diet
2. Genetics
3. Work out intensity
4. How close in either direction up or down are they on the scale to their natural genetic maximum

People have varying reactions to steroids.. some people have more dramatic effects than others. Also what about someone who is on their 10th cycle? Clearly they would eat less above surplus than you because their gains come slower.

Your diet will be dictated by your gains. You will need to make adjustments to ensure your gaining lean body mass and not too much additional fat (some is unavoidable).

Good luck! Your ready. Listen to your body!

[Cody95]

Negative my friend maximum lean body mass for someone at 5"8 (average guy genetically) is 150 pounds.

http://www.builtlean.com/2011/03/30/...ain-naturally/

To put that in perspectice he could weigh 160 pounds be genetically maxed out (especially in his late 30s) and have 6 percent bodyfat even.

The important part of the equation is his BF% which he didnt provide us.

In the bodybuilding world 2 major misconceptions always make me shake my head:

1. How off people are on what their bodyfat percentage is.
2. How wrong they are about what is achieveable naturally.

At 5"8 160 he would look like a beast at 6% bodyfat but that is genetic max.

We dont know his lean body mass but his lean body mas max naturally is 150 so.. let that one sink in.

Go ahead and ask any of the vets on here and they will agree with me 100%, he's too small to cycle. He should put on more natty muscle first. I'm not going to argue, I've been bodybuilding for 8 years, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

[hammerheart]

Go ahead and ask any of the vets on here and they will agree with me 100%, he's too small to cycle. He should put on more natty muscle first. I'm not going to argue, I've been bodybuilding for 8 years, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

Wait until you are in the late '30s, then you will be sure what ur talking about...

Twenty pounds of natural muscle at 35? Really? That won't work for everyone.

[Proximal]

Go ahead and ask any of the vets on here and they will agree with me 100%, he's too small to cycle. He should put on more natty muscle first. I'm not going to argue, I've been bodybuilding for 8 years, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

Again, respect your opinion, BUT, there are slow to non responders out there ( I am one of them), that can't put on the muscle & the theory of eating more does not fuel muscle gain, but results in fat gains only (have experienced this first hand for DECADES on myself). Started TRT 8 mos ago, guess what - it was THE missing piece of the puzzle - @ 57, better than I could ever achieve as a kid, and as mentioned, I've been at it cosistently for decades.

[Metalject]

Most competitive NATURAL bodybuilders are less than 200lbs. Any natural bodybuilder that is close to 200lbs or over, which is virtually unheard of, meaning rare, is an anomaly. Most natural bodybuilders (male) compete in the 145-175lb range...the vast, vast majority. Why? Because to be as lean as you need to be to compete, without steroids it's impossible for 99.9999% of people to have any real significant size without gear, I don't care what kind of "Foundation" you have. It is impossible.

Gaining size is not the end all be all when it comes to bodybuilding, and in my opinion, is only one of many possible reasons to use steroids and is by no means the decisive factor in steroid use, to use or not use. Why many, if not most, equate the two going hand-in-hand is a mystery to me.

Third point, many, many people, probably most, are much fatter than they realize. I don't mean society fat, I'm speaking in terms of bodybuilding. They go from 160lbs to 185lbs, a 25lb increase, which is nothing to knock. That can easily be done in a year or less but the odds are strong that they didn't put on more than 5-7lbs of actual lean muscle tissue, that would actually be a good gain. Yes, they're much stronger, which they assume means they've gained almost all muscle tissue...nope, sorry, doesn't work that way, doesn't even come close to working that way. But because they're 185lbs now, now they're ready to use steroids. How does this make sense? How is a gain of 5lbs of lean mass and now being probably 10% higher in BF, how does this mean you're ready to use? What mathematical formula was used to reach this conclusion? The formulation is repetitive regurgitation of bro myth passed down one year after the next, call it BroGurtation.

[MMA_Influenced]

Go ahead and ask any of the vets on here and they will agree with me 100%, he's too small to cycle. He should put on more natty muscle first. I'm not going to argue, I've been bodybuilding for 8 years, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

How Much Muscle Can You Gain Naturally? - BuiltLean
Muscle Gain Calculator - Scooby's Home Workouts
Determining Natural Bodybuilding Potential - Muscle and Brawn
What’s My Genetic Muscular Potential? : Bodyrecomposition

Real science > Bro Science.

There is a ton of misconceptions out there. Even among vets on a steroid forum. I know the line. Steroids are for people 200+ pounds at around 10% body fat right? Well first of all someone whos 5"7 versus someone whos 6"4 200 pounds is a big fucking difference in body composition.

How much you ask? TRY 42-47 FREAKING POUNDS lean body mass of a difference (depending on your genetics). Bro science is pure garbage. A lot of the stuff thats put out there.. and I love you guys but especially on steroid forums is way WAY out of touch with reality. Simply saying the line you must be over 200 pounds is ridiculous and says nothing about where the persons genetic potential is.

They tell you on the forums you need to be 10% body fat and 200 pounds (180 pounds lean) Which happens to be the maximum natural muscle potential of someone (again thats MAXED OUT) who is 6"2. Think of what a 6 foot 2 natural body builder would look like at 10% body fat knowing thats as big as he can possibly get. YEAH. Now picture telling me I need to be at that size. Guys Im only 5"8. Im not going to have anywhere near the same genetic LBM potential as someone who is 6"2 and saying be over 200 pounds says nothing about my level of fitness or how close I am to my genetic potential.


The worst part about all this? The sad awful truth? Steroids are more life changing for people BELOW their genetic potential. All gains made on steroids that put you above your genetic potential are going to melt away off cycle like your the wicked witch of the west. This keeps you constantly doing drugs to keep that level of fitness and size and that undoubtedly has consequences and leads to certain TRT. But what about the guy who is under muscled? If they have an excellent diet and are committed and work out correctly and intensely they will grow like weeds and WILL be able to retain their gains after the gear wears off. This is life changing. You can have an incredible body at your genetic potential and actually retain it without drugs.

So why do the vets say get up to their genetic potential? 2 reasons. One noble and one not: 1. Guys who are inexperienced in the gym tend to not know how to work out or diet properly and also may not be about "the life" and may not stick with it. 2. Pure jealousy.

Guys train for YEARS... 5...10...20? maybe even more. They did it natural. Someone comes along and puts 20 pounds of lean body mass on in one cycle (for some people that is years of growth even in the first 2 years of working out). Before you know it the guy has a 6 pack and looks incredible and is genetically maxed. A total short cut. Obviously there will be jealousy.

[MMA_Influenced]

Most competitive NATURAL bodybuilders are less than 200lbs. Any natural bodybuilder that is close to 200lbs or over, which is virtually unheard of, meaning rare, is an anomaly. Most natural bodybuilders (male) compete in the 145-175lb range...the vast, vast majority. Why? Because to be as lean as you need to be to compete, without steroids it's impossible for 99.9999% of people to have any real significant size without gear, I don't care what kind of "Foundation" you have. It is impossible.

Gaining size is not the end all be all when it comes to bodybuilding, and in my opinion, is only one of many possible reasons to use steroids and is by no means the decisive factor in steroid use, to use or not use. Why many, if not most, equate the two going hand-in-hand is a mystery to me.

Third point, many, many people, probably most, are much fatter than they realize. I don't mean society fat, I'm speaking in terms of bodybuilding. They go from 160lbs to 185lbs, a 25lb increase, which is nothing to knock. That can easily be done in a year or less but the odds are strong that they didn't put on more than 5-7lbs of actual lean muscle tissue, that would actually be a good gain. Yes, they're much stronger, which they assume means they've gained almost all muscle tissue...nope, sorry, doesn't work that way, doesn't even come close to working that way. But because they're 185lbs now, now they're ready to use steroids. How does this make sense? How is a gain of 5lbs of lean mass and now being probably 10% higher in BF, how does this mean you're ready to use? What mathematical formula was used to reach this conclusion? The formulation is repetitive regurgitation of bro myth passed down one year after the next, call it BroGurtation.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! This post put a big smile on my face. Finally, someone restores my faith in this site.

Also, lets point out that height has a large amount to do with what your lean body mass maximum potential will be. There is a big difference between being 6"2 and 5"8 and also a big difference between what both men will look like at 200 pounds (obviously). So this trash statement about being 200 pounds before gear to me is laughable at best.

Secondly, you made the most perfect point that I too had an issue with the steroid community. Why is gaining size the end all be all with steroids? What about performance? What about functionality? What about increasing fitness level? How about losing body fat and lowering your body fat percentage? How about injury recovery.

I look at the sports world and funny thing.. most of the guys getting popped for steroids don't look like they are at or anywhere near their genetic max natty size to me! Hmm.. wonder why everyone here recommends then people get near their genetic max?

Was Barry Bonds at his genetic potential muscularly when he hit 73 home runs? How about Lance Armstrong when he won the tour de France 7 times? Steroids are for everyone who is mature enough of age and mind to run them. If you take steroids you better do it responsibly and correctly and you better be at least 24-25 years old. Steroids increase performance and conditioning and that can benefit anyone whos healthy enough to take steroids. Proper use is obviously a requirement.

And your 3rd point was also a homerun that most people are completely clueless about how fat they really are and how much they hold on their body. 100% true. Beyond true.. I wish we could sticky this post you made to help push away all this crap thats been passed around all these different forums that is taken as common knowledge but infact is so off base its laughable.

[Metalject]

All good points MMA_Influenced

The old saying that you need to eat a lot more after you cycle to keep your gains, this one too is a bit misleading. Sure, go ahead and eat away and maybe you will very well hold onto more of your weight. And because you're eating more, there's even a good chance you won't lose that much strength, but that does not mean you're keeping your gains. The truth, you're getting fatter and you're staying as strong because your total calorie and carb intake went up.

Second point, muscle mass (tissue) is supported primarily by two things, food and hormones. Muscle that is built with these two things, hormones natural or otherwise, if you take away from either you are weakening the support system it was built on.

Third point, If a guy reaches a steroid forum's acceptable weight to use, "he has a good foundation" the gains he makes while on cycle aren't going to more magically stick to his foundation than the other guy who weighs less. If a guy weighs 150lbs and runs a cycle and gains 20lbs, which I assure you is not 20lbs of muscle mass...no basic standard cycle on earth is going to do that, not a full 20lbs of lean tissue. Once he comes off, one of 3 things will happen:

1. He'll rapidly fall back to 150lbs
2. He'll maintain a good bit of his size, not all but he'll still weigh more but he'll be fatter. But he'll assume it's mostly muscle because he's still pressing at least close to what he was on cycle.
3. He'll continue to train and eat right, let his body rest when it needs to and he won't fall all the way back to 150lbs. But he also won't stay at his new 170lb number if he continues. His natural foundation will continue to improve, he'll end up running another cycle and repeat the whole process over again with modest gains in actual muscle tissue each year all while not letting himself get too fat along the way. This is the right way and only way and only way that actually makes sense. The exception is if we're talking about big boy pants drug use, which probably only a small handful on here ever have or ever will.

Fourth point, steroids being all about the gains in size. This mantra or belief has bothered me for years because it has no basis in, well, anything. As you mentioned, there are numerous reasons to use steroids that have nothing to do with putting on a ton of size, basic performance and simply wanting a harder body are the two biggest ones outside of medical use. When it comes to the competitive bodybuilder, I've said this for years and I'd bet a years pay you can find many more that would say the same. For the bodybuilder, the most important aspect when it comes to steroids is during prep. This is when they are by far the most valuable and you get the most out of them. Well, prep has nothing to do with gaining size, so I guess every competitive bodybuilder out there must be out of his mind and have steroids all backwards in his mind.

[AR's King Silabolin]

It depends. If your cholestrol is at the bad border, you may want to be more nazi when it comes to arteriecleaning and cholestrolfriendly foodtypes when running gear. I know its a pain in the ass to go to the doctor and spend time and money on this, but checking your cholestrol (and BP) (maybe hct also) is important to nailing a gearsafe diett. If its ok, u may get away with a normal clean diett, like red meat 2 times a week. But, if its bad you may want to include all the 20 best arteriecleaning food types, like spirulina, fat fish, oliven oil, broccoli, asparagus, spinach, oat, cocooil, avocado, cinnamon, cranberries, green tea, nuts, orange juice, persimmon etc, ...google explains more..

And if your a bit fat and your e2 levels could cause problems, even with an ai, you may want to include the best foodtypes that naturally lowers estrogen....google explains more.

There is one side releted to this approach...it is expensive as hell:-(((
But it will give good nigth sleeps and without worries about your health even when running aas.

And maybe up your protein on a weekly basis, like week 1 180, week 2 190, week 3 200 etc...until u reach 250. And if u can afford it and has time for it, avoid powders as much as u can.

Ona last tip. I got from Gregg Valentino. (who is underrated and unfair treated) On aas you wanna look the best you can and tiny midsection is mandatory. Well, forget about fat or abstraining. If you want a smaller waist, you got to pay attention to digestive enzymes. Greek yougurt and pineapple should be a part of almost everymeal..and again, if you can afford it..buy yourself digestive enzymes at the supp.store.

[Sehdee]

can also confirm with lots of my own research and knowledge that mma influenced and metalject are completely correct