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Thread: Semi fat (over 15% bf) first cycle questions

  1. #1
    vskl is offline New Member
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    Semi fat (over 15% bf) first cycle questions

    Hey guys, been lurking around the forum for the past few months and now I feel I am ready to jump on the good stuff

    A little background:
    29 yrs old, 6 ft, 184 lbs, 16.5% bf. I have been training for the last 2 years, have a decent knowledge of diet and workout routines.

    Based on austinite's first cycle thread, here's the 10 week cycle:

    Week 1-10 ~ Test Enan at 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
    Week 2-10 ~ hCG at 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
    Week 2-12 ~ Arimidex Tabs at 0.5 mg every third day

    Week 12-15 ~ Clomid at 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex at 40/20/20/20

    So the few questions I have are:

    ~ How does this cycle looks after the small changes I have done? anything i should alter?

    ~ Doing maintenance calories atm, should I bump 'em by 10% to create more anabolic environment?

    ~ How fragile is the hcG mixture? reason I am asking this is bc it fell in the fridge bunch of times. also how crucial it really is? I have heard mixed reviews on its use but consensus on this forum seems it is required. Considering my 10 week cycle, do you guys think I can skip it?

    ~ I am doing a mud run in week 6, always have been in the Prehypertension range (135/82). Any precautions should I be taking there?

    ~ Should I include anavar in the cycle as my main goal is to lose body fat while gaining 5-10lbs muscle.

    ~ With the AI, I have noticed many people saying only use it if the symptoms show up? what exactly are those symptoms? gyno? acne? mood swings?

    A big thanks to all the contributors here who spend countless hours helping out newbies like me.

  2. #2
    Cody95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vskl View Post
    Hey guys, been lurking around the forum for the past few months and now I feel I am ready to jump on the good stuff

    A little background:
    29 yrs old, 6 ft, 184 lbs, 16.5% bf. I have been training for the last 2 years, have a decent knowledge of diet and workout routines.

    Based on austinite's first cycle thread, here's the 10 week cycle:

    Week 1-10 ~ Test Enan at 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
    Week 2-10 ~ hCG at 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
    Week 2-12 ~ Arimidex Tabs at 0.5 mg every third day

    Week 12-15 ~ Clomid at 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex at 40/20/20/20

    So the few questions I have are:

    ~ How does this cycle looks after the small changes I have done? anything i should alter?

    ~ Doing maintenance calories atm, should I bump 'em by 10% to create more anabolic environment?

    ~ How fragile is the hcG mixture? reason I am asking this is bc it fell in the fridge bunch of times. also how crucial it really is? I have heard mixed reviews on its use but consensus on this forum seems it is required. Considering my 10 week cycle, do you guys think I can skip it?

    ~ I am doing a mud run in week 6, always have been in the Prehypertension range (135/82). Any precautions should I be taking there?

    ~ Should I include anavar in the cycle as my main goal is to lose body fat while gaining 5-10lbs muscle.

    ~ With the AI, I have noticed many people saying only use it if the symptoms show up? what exactly are those symptoms? gyno? acne? mood swings?

    A big thanks to all the contributors here who spend countless hours helping out newbies like me.
    You should lower your bf% first before you cycle. That's on the high side.

  3. #3
    vskl is offline New Member
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    I am already into the 3rd week of the cycle. Taking test e and armidex as per the above plan but don't plan on doing the hcG .

    Hitting only 2400 calories to minimize the fat gain.

  4. #4
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    hawk14dl is offline Senior Member
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    Use the ai. Its old school mentality to just "use it if you need it". You do need it.

    Hcg , its up to you. But it will help inprove your chances for a full recovery.

    Leave the anavar for your next cycle.

    As for the mud run and high bp.. id suggest donating blood in week 5 if youre worried about it. Aas does increase red blood count which can raise bp (i experience this personally).
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  5. #5
    vskl is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawk14dl View Post
    Use the ai. Its old school mentality to just "use it if you need it". You do need it.

    Hcg , its up to you. But it will help inprove your chances for a full recovery.

    Leave the anavar for your next cycle.

    As for the mud run and high bp.. id suggest donating blood in week 5 if youre worried about it. Aas does increase red blood count which can raise bp (i experience this personally).
    Thanks, I personally want to keep the cycle as simple as possible too but if anavar helps shed some fat, helps me go down to 12% then I might think about it. What is your reasoning behind not using it?

    And should I just keep hitting the maintainence calories?

  6. #6
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    Your diet and cardio will dictate whether you shed fat or not.

    The reason that one compound is recommended as a first cycle is so that you know where the side effects are coming from if you get any.

    As test should form the basis of any as cycle it's imperative you know how to control it.

    Also, if you can't get amazing results on your first cycle of test only then you have a lot to learn in terms of diet and/or training.
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  7. #7
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    No, you should not include anavar . If your goal is to reduce fat, you should include a PPA receptor agonist. I have tried SR9009 and Cardarine. I def enjoyed the SR9009 best. And it would do awesome things for you at the mud run. Mice on sr9009 ran 40% longer without training compared to mice who were allowed to train.
    It even lowered my heartbeat at rest with 20 beats without cardiotraining in 4 weeks. Show me a recept medicin from a doctor which can do the same....

    If you have worries about estrogen and ai, google the best foodtypes that naturally lowers estrogen and include them in your diett. They are superhealthy aswell.

    HCG i def think you can skip it. At your level. I have never used hcg, i have run maybe 30 cycles, and im fine. Lee Priest never ever run hcg or pct.
    I guess recovery and sex will be better if you use it on cycle, but its not the most important thing. Clomid is the most important thing when it comes to recovery. And if you added mk677 to beat cortisol etc for sure you would be fine...without hcg.
    Again, hcg on cycle is the best choice, but its NOT the most important thing.
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  9. #9
    vskl is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawk14dl View Post
    Use the ai. Its old school mentality to just "use it if you need it". You do need it.

    Hcg , its up to you. But it will help inprove your chances for a full recovery.

    Leave the anavar for your next cycle.

    As for the mud run and high bp.. id suggest donating blood in week 5 if youre worried about it. Aas does increase red blood count which can raise bp (i experience this personally).
    Hawk, can you please answer the following questions:

    If anavar helps shed some fat, helps me go down to 12% then I might think about it. What is the reasoning behind not using it?

    And should I just keep hitting the maintainence calories?

  10. #10
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    Your bf sounds high based on your data. Obviously, i cannot make any real conclusions without photos how did you determine it? I do not recommend cycling above 15% bf. AAS effects your bp and cholesteral.
    I am a firm believer in hCG .
    I have always taken .25 of arimidex eod and have not had any issues.
    You have received some comments from some very experienced people here. What you do with it is up to you.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by vskl View Post
    Hawk, can you please answer the following questions:

    If anavar helps shed some fat, helps me go down to 12% then I might think about it. What is the reasoning behind not using it?

    And should I just keep hitting the maintainence calories?
    Did you even read what I wrote?
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  12. #12
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    Your BP is similar to mine. I typically run anywhere from 125-135 over 75-90. Keep in mind highly active people involved in stressful workouts have higher natural BP levels.

    I donate blood prior to cycling. I also run OTC ancilliaries like garlic pills, fish oils, "cycle support" pills and NAC to help mitigate BP issues and liver issues.

    Like you I ran anavar and test my first go round, and my BP went up to something like 170/100 resting. On the advice of the members here I went PCT and stopped everything. It was a waste of a cycle because I didn't listen.

    If you introduce var, I feel this may happen to you as well. Stick with test. There's plenty of time and opportunity to mess around with compounds, but the first cycle isn't one of them.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alta
    Your BP is similar to mine. I typically run anywhere from 125-135 over 75-90. Keep in mind highly active people involved in stressful workouts have higher natural BP levels. I donate blood prior to cycling. I also run OTC ancilliaries like garlic pills, fish oils, "cycle support" pills and NAC to help mitigate BP issues and liver issues. Like you I ran anavar and test my first go round, and my BP went up to something like 170/100 resting. On the advice of the members here I went PCT and stopped everything. It was a waste of a cycle because I didn't listen. If you introduce var, I feel this may happen to you as well. Stick with test. There's plenty of time and opportunity to mess around with compounds, but the first cycle isn't one of them.
    I disagree that highly active people have higher natural bp. That first thing that a Dr does is tell you to become more active when you have high BP.
    Activity is not the only factor but does play a big part. I also realize that there can be special circumstances. I used to be 130-140/80-85. Increased my activity (which also caused weight loss) and now my bp is about 115/65. Heart rate is also lower.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE="Alta"]Your BP is similar to mine. I typically run anywhere from 125-135 over 75-90. Keep in mind highly active people involved in stressful workouts have higher natural BP levels. I donate blood prior to cycling. I also run OTC ancilliaries like garlic pills, fish oils, "cycle support" pills and NAC to help mitigate BP issues and liver issues. Like you I ran anavar and test my first go round, and my BP went up to something like 170/100 resting. On the advice of the members here I went PCT and stopped everything. It was a waste of a cycle because I didn't listen. If you introduce var, I feel this may happen to you as well. Stick with test. There's plenty of time and opportunity to mess around with compounds, but the first cycle isn't one of

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post
    Did you even read what I wrote?
    I did mate. You said diet and cardio will dictate whether you shed fat or not which sounded very vague so just wanted to get a 2nd opinion.


    I am clear on the anavar front though. Thank you.

  16. #16
    vskl is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    I disagree that highly active people have higher natural bp. That first thing that a Dr does is tell you to become more active when you have high BP.
    Activity is not the only factor but does play a big part. I also realize that there can be special circumstances. I used to be 130-140/80-85. Increased my activity (which also caused weight loss) and now my bp is about 115/65. Heart rate is also lower.
    Yea that might not exactly be true but highly active people do have lower resting heart rate, mine's about 50-55 so i don't get it why the blood pressure is in that range. I have been to doctor couple of times about the issue and he will always tell me not to worry about it considering my lifestyle.

    Right now I am taking only garlic pills but will include the NAC next week.

    The week 3 just started and I haven't felt anything besides an odd mood swing yesterday. I was feeling really down for some reason and first thing I did today was took the armidex .50 mg (which I generally take in the evenings). Do you guys think test is causing that?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vskl View Post
    I did mate. You said diet and cardio will dictate whether you shed fat or not which sounded very vague so just wanted to get a 2nd opinion.


    I am clear on the anavar front though. Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post

    The reason that one compound is recommended as a first cycle is so that you know where the side effects are coming from if you get any.

    As test should form the basis of any as cycle it's imperative you know how to control it.

    .
    That wasn't the relevant part, ^^this was.
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  18. #18
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    Guys, is the headache normal on test only cycle? did some digging and found that it is caused by high blood pressure which seems to be the case with me.

    I checked my blood pressure and it was around 140/92 and heart rate 55.

    Even though I mostly eat clean, I am gonna watch my salt intake and drink more water. What else do you guys recommend?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vskl View Post
    Guys, is the headache normal on test only cycle? did some digging and found that it is caused by high blood pressure which seems to be the case with me.

    I checked my blood pressure and it was around 140/92 and heart rate 55.

    Even though I mostly eat clean, I am gonna watch my salt intake and drink more water. What else do you guys recommend?
    I recommend that you relax a little. While it's good to be aware of what is happening, you seem to be over-worrying. It's normal to see some of the changes in your body. Slight elevation of BP is not out of the question and a common side effect - although you're probably making it worse by freaking out. You didn't really think you would experience no sides at all did you? The idea is to control them and keep an eye on them. Make sure you get bloodwork at around week 5-6. Keep an eye on things but enjoy the ride of your first cycle.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post

    HCG i def think you can skip it. ..... I guess recovery and sex will be better if you use it on cycle, but its not the most important thing.
    With the utmost respect, I must disagree with "Not the most important thing"

    I'm not smart enough to know if you should/can/can't skip it... But I started hcg a little less than halfway through my first cycle because my testicles shrunk a bit and I had a hallow persistent (distracting) ache in the middle of my nuts, and the orgasms "output" was cut by 80%, and the associated feeling. HCG seems to have alleviated those things. Just my experience.

  21. #21
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    I should add a couple more things now that I think about it... After reading the "my first cycle" thread a million times, and being referred to it a hundred million times, I still decided to try my own thing. Namely a test only cycle, with no AI, and no HCG .... Because I too wanted to see "how I react".

    After a month and a half in to it, and some blood work, and some great conversation on these boards ( you can read through my post in the "bloodwork" forum to see it ), I've added in the AI... And added in the hcg, organically to respond to my needs... In essence, ending up doing the advised protocol anyway.

    To lose the extra weight, cook at home and track it better.

    Best of luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie67 View Post
    I should add a couple more things now that I think about it... After reading the "my first cycle" thread a million times, and being referred to it a hundred million times, I still decided to try my own thing. Namely a test only cycle, with no AI, and no HCG .... Because I too wanted to see "how I react".

    After a month and a half in to it, and some blood work, and some great conversation on these boards ( you can read through my post in the "bloodwork" forum to see it ), I've added in the AI... And added in the hcg, organically to respond to my needs... In essence, ending up doing the advised protocol anyway.

    To lose the extra weight, cook at home and track it better.

    Best of luck!
    Thanks for sharing your experience. Gonna grab the slin needles, any idea if the hcg mixture could have stood bunch of falls in the fridge. Found a bunch of your posts, is there a specific one?

    I might be overthinking but this is only because my blood pressure has always been in the prehypertension range so just being extra careful.

    The headaches have gone down a bit, they were actually quite severe yesterday.

  23. #23
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    I just finished the 3rd week of my cycle today, thought I should update you guys.

    Effects:

    Few pimples on the face
    Trouble sleeping at night
    Sight pain in testicle once (went on for few hours)
    Little fullness in the chest but nothing significant

    As I read other threads, I am very pumped to see what the next few weeks hold up for me.

    I have only started using hcG in last week, took 0.50 armi once and had a crazy decline in my mood and energy that day so stopped it after that. Thinking of bringing it back in very small dose as it is recommended by most of the experienced members here.

    If I am running a 10 week test cycle what would be the best time to get the mid cycle blood work done as well as the blood donation?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by vskl View Post
    I just finished the 3rd week of my cycle today, thought I should update you guys.

    Effects:

    Few pimples on the face
    Trouble sleeping at night
    Sight pain in testicle once (went on for few hours)
    Little fullness in the chest but nothing significant

    As I read other threads, I am very pumped to see what the next few weeks hold up for me.

    I have only started using hcG in last week, took 0.50 armi once and had a crazy decline in my mood and energy that day so stopped it after that. Thinking of bringing it back in very small dose as it is recommended by most of the experienced members here.

    If I am running a 10 week test cycle what would be the best time to get the mid cycle blood work done as well as the blood donation?
    Sorry, not sure about the reliability of hcg after dropping it a few times.... I think I'd still use it though. I travel with mine and I'm sure the airline baggage guys aren't gentle

    Week four was when I really started to feel stronger, although I don't feel like I look any different... But good pictures are helpful in seeing maybe a little change, hard to tell... But I feel strong, and I feel terrific. I got bloodwork between weeks 4 & 5. They didn't indicate anything that drove me to give blood, but if you are going to give, I'm GUESSING anytime after your bloodwork shows high hematocrit levels would work, Or in the latter weeks of your cycle.... Or whenever you want to just feel good about donating .

    Again, I screwed up my bloodwork by NOT getting the 'sensitive' estradiol test, don't do that. The "standard" E test thats usually included isn't helpful for men (from what I read around here), so get the right one. That will help you figuring out your Arim use.

    My bloodwork is here if it's helpful:
    http://forums.steroid.com/%2A%2Aconf...view-help.html
    Last edited by Charlie67; 06-15-2016 at 11:22 PM.

  25. #25
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    Finally got my mid cycle test (Hormone Panel with F&T Testosterone LC/MS-MS) results. Few things that stood out to me are I should donate blood asap to bring the RBC numbers down.

    As I finished week 6 of the cycle last tuesday and haven't really felt crazy strength gains in the gym which made me think that my gear was bunk but considering the test numbers it certainly is not. What do you guys think about the estradiol? I have only been taking .25mg armidex e3d.

    Semi fat (over 15% bf) first cycle questions-ss-1.pngSemi fat (over 15% bf) first cycle questions-ss-2.png

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by vskl View Post
    I did mate. You said diet and cardio will dictate whether you shed fat or not which sounded very vague so just wanted to get a 2nd opinion.


    I am clear on the anavar front though. Thank you.
    You got advice from one of the best on this forum wat else could you ask for? 6' 185 and you are 16% really tells me something isnt right.

  27. #27
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    Thats an old post. I was just curious to know.

    What do you guys think about the BW?

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