Can not doing proper pct after a cycle have long term effects?

[MMA_Influenced]

4 years ago when I was 25 i did a 6 week cycle that got cut short because of a shoulder injury i got (while not working out).

I didnt do pct because honestly I just didnt have it on hand like I should have before starting the cycle. Recently my Total Test came in (verified twice) at about 471. Which is pretty damn low for 29.

Im wondering now if maybe i lowered my test levels due to not using properly on my first cycle. Does anyone have any knowledge of experience with this? I tried to do some research on google and found nothing

[Cody95]

4 years ago when I was 25 i did a 6 week cycle that got cut short because of a shoulder injury i got (while not working out).

I didnt do pct because honestly I just didnt have it on hand like I should have before starting the cycle. Recently my Total Test came in (verified twice) at about 471. Which is pretty damn low for 29.

Im wondering now if maybe i lowered my test levels due to not using properly on my first cycle. Does anyone have any knowledge of experience with this? I tried to do some research on google and found nothing

Yeah you're pretty much fucked.

[ScotchGuard02]

Honestly, I don't think you can draw any conclusion since you didn't do a blood test before you ran your cycle. You could naturally have low Test, who knows. You can only work with facts so make plans to deal with low Test. Check with your doc. You're pretty young to start your own TRT program.

[MMA_Influenced]

Yeah you're pretty much fucked.

Lol im not fucked my man life goes on. Its not at zero its at 471. I still get hard ons as good as ever so im not scared.

Even if i did do permanent damage so what? Life goes on. Im not sterile.. i can still do hcg and see what happens but like I said. Not the end of the world.

[MMA_Influenced]

Honestly, I don't think you can draw any conclusion since you didn't do a blood test before you ran your cycle. You could naturally have low Test, who knows. You can only work with facts so make plans to deal with low Test. Check with your doc. You're pretty young to start your own TRT program.

Very good points however i never agreed with the too young for TRT thing. If you got low T your never too young in my opinion.

I value my overall health (especially in my prime years) as a premium and dont believe that i would want to live my prime years out with the testosterone of my grandfather.

Do you think its too late to try hcg for a while and see what happens?

[Hard.On]

Im guessing you didn't know what your normal values were before that cycle.

So its impossible to know if and when you did get so low.


You can't fix yourself by getting advice on this forum. You need to see an HRT doctor.
They will help you get your levels to normal and make sure you maintain them naturally. You need to get bloodwork done.

If that doesn't work, you can go on HRT.

[kelkel]

See your doc. Get BW similar to what's recommended in the Finding A Doc Sticky in the HRT Forum and go from there. Many things can suppress endogenous production that are correctable. HCG is not the correct course of action. Over time it's suppressive to your natural testosterone production.

[AR's King Silabolin]

4 years ago when I was 25 i did a 6 week cycle that got cut short because of a shoulder injury i got (while not working out).

I didnt do pct because honestly I just didnt have it on hand like I should have before starting the cycle. Recently my Total Test came in (verified twice) at about 471. Which is pretty damn low for 29.

Im wondering now if maybe i lowered my test levels due to not using properly on my first cycle. Does anyone have any knowledge of experience with this? I tried to do some research on google and found nothing

And how long since your last cycle?..and what was that cycle?

[FONZY007]

4 years ago when I was 25 i did a 6 week cycle that got cut short because of a shoulder injury i got (while not working out).

I didnt do pct because honestly I just didnt have it on hand like I should have before starting the cycle. Recently my Total Test came in (verified twice) at about 471. Which is pretty damn low for 29.

Im wondering now if maybe i lowered my test levels due to not using properly on my first cycle. Does anyone have any knowledge of experience with this? I tried to do some research on google and found nothing

Shit I would love to have 471 test level. I went a year with under 150 until the Dr finally put me on trt. Is it low yea, did you slightly suppress your system seems so. I feel normal with that level.

[MMA_Influenced]

Shit I would love to have 471 test level. I went a year with under 150 until the Dr finally put me on trt. Is it low yea, did you slightly suppress your system seems so. I feel normal with that level.

Yeah.. i just wonder if using hcg for a while could possibly help my body start producing a higher normal test level.. what has is been 5 years? Lol i guess thats probably not going to happen.. plus i dont know if maybe this test level is my baseline as i never tested before the cycle.

Who knows.. I almost half want to try to take hcg for 4 weeks then stop for a few weeks and retest where Im at but i got a feeling it wont make any permanent changes.

[MMA_Influenced]

And how long since your last cycle?..and what was that cycle?

Like 5 years ago. It was Test E (like 500 mg a week) deca like 300 a week and I did dbol for the first 4 weeks but i cant remember how much I did dose wise on the dbol.

I got a feeling 471 may be my baseline test but im not sure. Also to Fonzy I definitely dont feel "good" right now. Im always tired and have very low energy and fight to push through everything.

I have a great attitude and drive but my body just always feels very tired. Im 29 now but it wasnt like this when I was 21. I guess thats natural but I cant help but feel like being average test for a 75-85 year old at 29 wont be a problem for me whether a doctor would perscribe me for trt or not.

Bottom line is Im in my prime (28-32 I view as a mans prime). And I got your grandfathers Test levels. It just doesnt seem right. FAR from optimal health I would say and definitely I would think it would materialize in some pretty bad gains in the gym compared to others along with low energy (which I have). I also battle with what I would call long term mild depression. Generally I always have leaned towards feeling down.

My mood is generally very melancholy. Ive got low energy and enthusiasm and have delt with some degree of prolonged depression. Sometimes I compare it to some of my friends and one in particular seems like he has an endless resevoir of energy. Sometimes I wonder if its my low testosterone. Ill know for sure soon.. i got my hands on some test E.. the good stuff. I know its real. Im curious to see how Ill feel once it kicks in.

[bass]

Yeah.. i just wonder if using hcg for a while could possibly help my body start producing a higher normal test level.. what has is been 5 years? Lol i guess thats probably not going to happen.. plus i dont know if maybe this test level is my baseline as i never tested before the cycle.

Who knows.. I almost half want to try to take hcg for 4 weeks then stop for a few weeks and retest where Im at but i got a feeling it wont make any permanent changes.

Kel already answered this , hCG is not going to help. best action you can take now is see TRT doc.

[TheTaxMan]

Whats your diet like? Im similair age to you and found when on a bad diet high salt etc and or with alcohol i feel like crap

On a clean diet and great water intake i feel great/better in all aspects

Just something to consider?

[MMA_Influenced]

Kel already answered this , hCG is not going to help. best action you can take now is see TRT doc.

Right.. thanks to both of you for answering. I didnt see his response until now.

[MMA_Influenced]

Whats your diet like? Im similair age to you and found when on a bad diet high salt etc and or with alcohol i feel like crap

On a clean diet and great water intake i feel great/better in all aspects

Just something to consider?

Good point. It could be the case. I just dont understand though how some people are always happy and bouncing off the walls with energy all day and I have to force myself to do everything and its always a battle of will with me to keep on point.

My diet right this second is super clean.. lean meats.. mostly chicken.. brown rice and veggies.. also some almonds and cashews + a gallon of water a day. I definitely made a difference but its still nothing compared to some of my other people my age I know who havent worked out a day in their life and eat pizza and wings all the time and have endless energy.

Genetics. I guess Im just envious. I guess Ill know for sure if Test is the reason Im so tired or not soon when I do a proper cycle. People can tell me Im back on for the wrong reasons and a small part of me agrees but once I found out my testosterone levels were in nursing home territory I decided body building natty isnt going to work for me.

Ive been lifting clean for years. Got some results but not close to where Ive been trying to be at. Decided enough was enough. Time to gear up and get it. Ill be 30 years old at the end of summer and I want to reach my fitness goals. I dont have time for this old man testoterone crap getting in my way so ill be cycling again.

Ive got everything I need and I got my diet right.. my lifting is right. My motivation and desire is sky high and Im going to give it a go. If I like how i feel i probably will also be going on trt so i can be on hcg/test year round. Thats a huge decision though. Not going to be easy to make but if it means feeling happier and having more motivation and energy to accomplish the things in life I want to do then it may be worth doing. End of the day quality of life is worth it. Sucks to have to be on trt but if the effects of having higher test increase my quality of life and also improve my performance at work and in the gym then it will be something I will probably do.

[FONZY007]

Right.. thanks to both of you for answering. I didnt see his response until now.

Yea MMA, I tried that route myself, felt better while on but that's it.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Like 5 years ago. It was Test E (like 500 mg a week) deca like 300 a week and I did dbol for the first 4 weeks but i cant remember how much I did dose wise on the dbol.

I got a feeling 471 may be my baseline test but im not sure. Also to Fonzy I definitely dont feel "good" right now. Im always tired and have very low energy and fight to push through everything.

I have a great attitude and drive but my body just always feels very tired. Im 29 now but it wasnt like this when I was 21. I guess thats natural but I cant help but feel like being average test for a 75-85 year old at 29 wont be a problem for me whether a doctor would perscribe me for trt or not.

Bottom line is Im in my prime (28-32 I view as a mans prime). And I got your grandfathers Test levels. It just doesnt seem right. FAR from optimal health I would say and definitely I would think it would materialize in some pretty bad gains in the gym compared to others along with low energy (which I have). I also battle with what I would call long term mild depression. Generally I always have leaned towards feeling down.

My mood is generally very melancholy. Ive got low energy and enthusiasm and have delt with some degree of prolonged depression. Sometimes I compare it to some of my friends and one in particular seems like he has an endless resevoir of energy. Sometimes I wonder if its my low testosterone. Ill know for sure soon.. i got my hands on some test E.. the good stuff. I know its real. Im curious to see how Ill feel once it kicks in.

Your anabolic possibilyties in the gym is not necessary so bad. I red once that in the 300-1000 range there are hardly any differenses when it comes too growth. Dont have the link though.

Maybe you can try femara. Gregg Valentino had a friend who increased his testo with 400 just from letro.

[FONZY007]

Your anabolic possibilyties in the gym is not necessary so bad. I red once that in the 300-1000 range there are hardly any differenses when it comes too growth. Dont have the link though.

Maybe you can try femara. Gregg Valentino had a friend who increased his testo with 400 just from letro.

Yea but no matter what he does it will be temporary. All we can say u need to see someone that knows trt..

[MMA_Influenced]

Your anabolic possibilyties in the gym is not necessary so bad. I red once that in the 300-1000 range there are hardly any differenses when it comes too growth. Dont have the link though.

Maybe you can try femara. Gregg Valentino had a friend who increased his testo with 400 just from letro.

Thats interesting.. all the same common sense wise it doesnt make sense but im no scientist and im not an expert. That all being said being as how testosterone is intergral in a mans ability to put on muscle its hard to believe having more than 3 times as much as someone else wouldnt be an advantage.

Also i question what "not that big of a difference" is. That seems subjective and also could be effected by the methods subjects were tested. For example.. did the subjects diet correctly? If both the guy at 300 test and 1000 were simply on maintenance caloric requirement then yes you wouldnt assume that it is a difference.

Also, do the scientists consider gaining a quarter pound of muscle a week versus three quarters of a pound a week "not that big a difference"? Because to them they can say that but as someone who has been body building for 3 years natural thats a HUGE difference. So if someone gained 3 pounds of lean body mass versus 5.5 in 2 months I would still consider that a big difference.... I would really have to read the study but for the record would point out that many scientific studies arent worth much more than for use as toilet paper so I would need to see their methods.

Also, taking letro is interesting and I know nothing about sarms really. I would worry about liver toxicity for sure right now because my main issues are that I am a body builder and thats my life style.. I love physical fitness, health, and nutrition however it seems I also have an issue with Testosterone and quality of life. Im looking for a long term solution and not to create any health issues in doing so. Ill look into letro tonight.

[Dj Screw]

I think you are overreacting about what you think is "low testosterone/grandpa/nursing home level"

Do you know how many people of all ages on TRT would trade in injecting themselves and spending money for a lifetime for a natural testosterone level of 500? I don't think your problem is low testosterone, I think it's either something else or just a mental problem. Going from 500 test to 800+ test isn't going to turn you into a bodybuilder either. Before you do something stupid, sit back and think about it all. You aren't as bad off as you think.....and you deff don't need TRT because raising your levels slightly isn't going to be some life changing event for you.

I had a total test of 160, thats far different from your 500 and I would trade in a lifetime of injecting, explaining to girls, having to travel with medicine, and the all around hassle/money that's involved in this for your natty levels anyday....anyone would.

Good luck, and get your life in order first before looking for a crutch.

[Jamie30]

When I was 25 years old I done a 8 week course of test 250 and deca 200 with no PCT. I Didn't have any side effects and my testosterone results the last 5 years have been normal since then.

[MMA_Influenced]

I think you are overreacting about what you think is "low testosterone/grandpa/nursing home level"

Do you know how many people of all ages on TRT would trade in injecting themselves and spending money for a lifetime for a natural testosterone level of 500? I don't think your problem is low testosterone, I think it's either something else or just a mental problem. Going from 500 test to 800+ test isn't going to turn you into a bodybuilder either. Before you do something stupid, sit back and think about it all. You aren't as bad off as you think.....and you deff don't need TRT because raising your levels slightly isn't going to be some life changing event for you.

I had a total test of 160, thats far different from your 500 and I would trade in a lifetime of injecting, explaining to girls, having to travel with medicine, and the all around hassle/money that's involved in this for your natty levels anyday....anyone would.

Good luck, and get your life in order first before looking for a crutch.

Scientific studies have proven (verified by multiple studies) that my total testosterone level is average for a man between the age of 75-85 years old. So spare me on the bullshit that my problems are based on mental problems okay?

Secondly, Im not dealing with anything right now that I cant handle. I am fine. But what Im interested in TRT for is... can this better my quality of life? Can this give me more energy and motivation and keep me in better health.

Looking at the science and FACTS behind what we are discussing I am in my prime but have the testosterone of someone in their very late years generally the age in which men die 75-85 years old is what I am in par with hormonally FACT.

Testosterone can improve mood, sex drive, energy. Well guess what? Those things if they improve will be absolutely invaluable for me. 1. Money is not an issue to me like a lot of other people I can afford TRT. 2. If I feel that TRT will give me increased motivation, energy, and physical health I cant see how a couple pin pricks a week wont be worth it.

Im a man. I can tolerate a needle it doesnt bother me. My issue is. Will this increase my quality of life?

Are you claiming that at 471 total test (average for a 75-85 year old) I should expect to have 1. Optimal energy 2. Optimal muscle growth 3. Optimal fat loss 4. Optimal sex drive 5. Optimal motivation, and optimal happiness/mood.

I think we know despite the fact that your throwing shade on the whole situation the fact is we both know the above list will not be optimal in my life. Telling me it must be because O have "mental problems" and not that my hormonal levels are at the level of an 80 year old is extremely presumptuous.

Im not certain if test will improve my quality of life but Im giving it a shot and if it does inprove things for me I may make a permanent move to trt.

[MMA_Influenced]

When I was 25 years old I done a 8 week course of test 250 and deca 200 with no PCT. I Didn't have any side effects and my testosterone results the last 5 years have been normal since then.

Thanks jaime. I think i have naturally low test. My brothers Testosterone came back as 231 today. Obviously this runs in the family. He has never done steroids and has even worse symptoms than me.

[MMA_Influenced]

I think you are overreacting about what you think is "low testosterone/grandpa/nursing home level"

Do you know how many people of all ages on TRT would trade in injecting themselves and spending money for a lifetime for a natural testosterone level of 500? I don't think your problem is low testosterone, I think it's either something else or just a mental problem. Going from 500 test to 800+ test isn't going to turn you into a bodybuilder either. Before you do something stupid, sit back and think about it all. You aren't as bad off as you think.....and you deff don't need TRT because raising your levels slightly isn't going to be some life changing event for you.

I had a total test of 160, thats far different from your 500 and I would trade in a lifetime of injecting, explaining to girls, having to travel with medicine, and the all around hassle/money that's involved in this for your natty levels anyday....anyone would.

Good luck, and get your life in order first before looking for a crutch.

I have 471 test. The trt clinic i spoke to would put me at over 1000 and as high as about 1200 if i wanted it. But lets say its 1000. Thats more than double the hornone i currently have in my body but you call that a "slight change".

Its annoying to think that doubling my hormonal levels in my body wouldnt be a slight change.

Secondly, you told me that getting 800 test wont make me a body builder. I AM a body builder mother fucker what are you talking about? Ive been body building for the past 5 years natural. I know what you mean as in massive roided up contest body but I live a life style that obviously I should see some benefit in doubling my testosterone

[Dj Screw]

I have 471 test. The trt clinic i spoke to would put me at over 1000 and as high as about 1200 if i wanted it. But lets say its 1000. Thats more than double the hornone i currently have in my body but you call that a "slight change".

Its annoying to think that doubling my hormonal levels in my body wouldnt be a slight change.

Secondly, you told me that getting 800 test wont make me a body builder. I AM a body builder mother fucker what are you talking about? Ive been body building for the past 5 years natural. I know what you mean as in massive roided up contest body but I live a life style that obviously I should see some benefit in doubling my testosterone

Woah, no need for the name calling. I could bash you a lot worse, you aren't intelligent at all by the posts I see you make day after day and you are all over the palce... but I actually feel sorry for you and I am trying to help you out. If I wanted to go against you I would say "Go get on TRT for life, you should've done it awhile ago" but that would be the opposite of what you should do in your situation.

As far as those studies you are talking about I think you are off and are putting too much stock into them. My 72 year old father has a total testosterone of 375 but still takes girls out on dates, gets laid, works/gets things done, and he doesn't complain at all compared to you. I think you are looking for a drastic magical life changing crutch and what I am trying to explain to you is that the difference/change you are seeking isn't going to happen plain and simple. Will you notice a difference from 500-1000? Sure, you will notice a slight difference....but it's not like you are going to be running a cycle going from a total test of 500 to a total of 3000+ now THAT is a big difference and would be a noticable change. It's not worth it, don't believe it then go ahead and try it

I still think your problem is mental, sorry.

You need to relax and be happy with what you have....everyone wants more more more of everything. It's human nature. I am not saying you can't handle a needle but it's not worth the small difference you are going to experience to start doing this for a lifetime. The tuffest part of this whole process is finding a good Doctor but even a bad one wouldn't give someone in their 20's TRT for life with the numbers you have and if they do they are just looking to take your money. I don't think you understand how many people around our age would trade places with you and trade in a lifetime of needles/dr.'s visits/blood tests/money/hassle to drop all of that and walk around with 500 total test.

You are a bodybuilder? How many times have you competed? You ask some pretty novice questions even about training to be a bodybuilder, you are full of suprises. The muscle building difference you are seeking isn't going to be drastic and will be hardly noticable and once again not worth it. Also, are you going to try and run a cycle and gaugue if you need TRT off of running 500+mg of Test a week? I don't mean to state the obvious but I will just for you.... that's not reality going from 500 to 3000 and 500 - 1000. Think about it all before you make a mistake, and I wouldn't run a cycle if you are so deathly worried over your test.

Good luck, I mean it.

[Dj Screw]

Also, instead of thinking TRT is the only option why don't you talk to a Doctor about a temporary Clomid protocol?

[Mr.BB]

Scientific studies have proven (verified by multiple studies) that my total testosterone level is average for a man between the age of 75-85 years old.

Can you link the studies?

Bare in mind that the internet is full of data/graphs that are commercial information from testosterone clinics. 471 is not the average of the 85 years old.

At the end of the day you will have the decision of using testosterone, either cycling or TRT. If you dont have the TRT symptoms it will not improve your life in a great way, maybe some small gains in gym but nothing dramatic in any way. Also trying to keep levels above 1000 ng/dl is not really optimal in a TRT point of view, it may lead to estrogen and blood problems which might not be sustainable.