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A lot of people run high test low tren , and high tren low test, and an even ratio
But whats the thoughts on winstrol? I cant find much?
Could one run 250mg of test per week and 50mg winstrol per day?
Do you need to have high test in order to run winstrol at 50/60mg ED?
Whats the general vibe with test and winstrol dose ratios?
We talk about 19 nors and ratios for two main reasons.
The first is sexual issues and the second is other related side effects.
This ratio, T+DHT/E+PRL, doesn't matter with winny because it's a dht based steroid.
Thanks for that numbere, i was asked from a buddy at the gym today and i really couldnt answer him, thought when i get home id have a look but not found any specific answer
As for the 19 nors
I wonder why people run low test high tren then, bit risky in terms of sex department?
I never see anyone run low test high deca? Hmm
Personaly i prefer an even ratio on 19nors
I run my test as low as possible when I take tren or nandralone.
It's less expensive and gives me more muscle definition.
If you use short esters for long enough you can really fine tune your doses to get the most out of every cycle.
Our of interest what are your ratios for test/nan and test/tren?
Id love to try short esters at some point, i dont mind pinning to a degee but EOD for 8-10 weeks is a bit brutal lol. I can see the advantages of short esters from what your saying though.
Id love to try low test high nandrolone but would be worried about the little fella hiding for a couple of months
It's also goal dependent I feel best on high test moderate tren but look my best on low test high tren but feel awful
Usually 50-100mg of prop with 75-100mg of ace EOD.
Or 50-100mg of prop with 150mg of npp EOD.
My favorite stack so far has been 50-100mg of prop, 150mg of npp and 200mg of mast p EOD.
I like npp+mast better than tren.
If I experience a lack of sex drive, and my bw is good, then a small bump in prop is noticed within 24 hours.
Hi Bio, can you dsecribe the awful feelings? And an example of the doses you used?
I ran 250mg test 200mg tren felt great, ran 750mg test 350mg tren felt great, but even with AI and diet dialed in i still smoothed/held water until i came off.
in future i think i will keep test low as poss but without feeling "awful" - its just trying to find the sweet spot (again i know thats where short esters will become the best option, just cant face eod pinning)
Id love to here more examples of low test high nandrolone if anyones reading and has done this?
Nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by numbere
I've ran trt dose test and threw winstrol in there before. I was pleased with the definition and I felt strong on it. I'm running tren e at 400 mg and test at trt levels. This is my first run with tren. I'll take my chances with sides before I pin ace eod. Libido is through the roof. Not sure if I'll ever run anything that converts to estrogen again honestly
Real tired and run down but thats on 300 mg test and 700 tren ewQuote:
Originally Posted by TheTaxMan
A while away but im tempted as my next cycle
250mg (maybe 300mg) test e 1-14 wks
500mg nandrolone deca 1-12 wks
60mg winstrol 6-14 wks
I just hope its enough test to keep me "up"
Main reason for low test is the wife is sick of the ego and slight temper when im on high test
Winstrol with deca? Never did that before. Can you provide more details?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTaxMan
What do you mean provide more details?
The reasoning behind the cycle? is strength and growth, winstrol drys you out as well as the joints, deca will lubricate the joints, winstrol will provide strrngth, deca will provide strength and growth
Im hoping with a good diet il lean bulk and be really strong and improve on all lifts
Plus a cycle ive never tried so why not :)
Winstrol works well and gives me that "dry" look. Man, it is a pain in the joints, literally! I thought I needed knee replacements for the entire Winstrol cycle. Low dose (150mg/wk or so) Deca has shown to lubricate collagen. Highr concentration (300mg/wk +) has shown to have an opposite effect on the collagen. If you want to run Deca/Winstrol they're doing the opposite things. One's drying out your joint and one's lubricating it. I'm not sure that's the best combination. I've found over time that bulking then cutting gave a better overall look. That's my .02
Thanks scotch!
In terms of the joint issues, if deca is lubricating and winstrol is drying, does that not just mean it will be pretty balanced/normal, cancel eachother out and therefore just able to reap the benefits from each compound? (Mainly strength)
If winstrol drys and deca lubes, then is it not win win?
Either way i still think il try it, if the joints are sore then i can just cut the winny with it being such a short life
Way back in the day deca and winny were certainly used together, mainly as a way of trying to duplicate the effect of primo if one couldn't find it or it was too expensive.
Remeber that before UGLs the main weapons at our disposal were test, deca, winny, primo, dbol and maybe A-50.
I personally don't see anything wrong with using deca and winny together, but might I suggest an alternative?
EQ.
You'll be far less water-logged than with deca. Your gains will be slow but steady and you won't have any liver or joint issues as you would with winny.
300mg of Test and 600mg of EQ should be really easily tolerated.
If you don't want to run a long cycle, get your hands on some BoldCyp instead of EQ and the undecylenate ester.
Thanks for the response Clem
Many people on this forum including the vets persistently say that EQ is a waste of oil unless ran at a very high dose for a long period of time. Its something ive always wanted to try but Deca just seems to over rule it with peoples opionions etc
The last deca cycle i ran i wasnt actualy too water logged, and that was with high test, AI was ran and diet clean with good water intake
I can only imagine it being even better this time round with the lower test and the added winny
If u plan on eating above maintenance calories two things are gonna happen on that cycle, you're gonna get big and u gonna get strong. Have fun with it
Tbh - I think my favorite cycle was
Prop/NPP/backloaded w/Winny - and I got strong & ended @10% - I started my winny at 50mgs/day but went up to 100mgs/day in a six wk period
I'm gonna run winny again(I was surprised with the strength gains - they were a nice boost to the NPP)
ShaunJohn - yes im going to be eating above maintenance cals, i look forward to it
Nach - how were the joints on 50mg compared to 100mg?
How much nandrolone were you on per week?
Couldn't tell much difference but I've got horrible joints anyway so I was hurting daily lol - 50mgs was a good dose tho I wouldn't run it at 100mgs for 6wks unless you were cutting fo a show or somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by TheTaxMan
I ran 400mgs of NPP
If your eating above maintenance cals - why would you run low test?!
Aggression purposes, ive been a bit of an asshole on high test, want to try to reap the benefits of a cycle without pestering for sex all day and losing my temper over silly things.
I may even just eat at maintenance and hope to recomp from it
Edit: to be honest Nach ive been fine throughout my full blast and cruise it was the last part that i was aggressive 750mg test, 350mg tren
Im fine on test, i think it was the tren that made me a little devil, but my wife thinks its the test and said she would like my next cycle to not even contain test, i told her you cant cycle without test but i could go low dose
Hmm