Response of natural testosterone to supplemental testosterone

[yadda]

I have a skinny friend who wants a slight boost to his physique, but can't get it no matter how much exercise and training he does. So his idea is to try a testosterone patch (he isn't going to do anything 'heavy duty' like injections, and he isn't looking to be Schwarzenegger, he just wants a little 'extra' to what he currently has).

I'm not a bodybuilder, and have never done steroids. But I have an intuitive sense of how this might work, based on my experience with a thyroid condition some years back. This is what I told him. I'd like confirmation on whether I am right or wrong, i.e. I'd like to know if what I told him was correct.

I told him if he boosted his testosterone a little bit with a patch, all that would happen is his natural testosterone would fall by the same amount to keep his testosterone at his own 'normal' level. In other words, lets say his normal testosterone was an '8' (made up numbers), and he used a patch to boost it to '10,' his body would then stop making testosterone (or slow the production of it) to bring it back down to an '8' again, so instead of having '8' natural testosterone, he'd have '6' from his body and '2' from the patch. But bottom line, the patch wouldn't do any good. [Note that this was assuming there isn't enough testosterone in a patch to 'crash' natural testosterone, and that a patch is weak. In truth I have no idea how much testosterone is in a patch, I've just heard they are 'weak' so I went off that assumption.]

I told him that the only way to go over the natural testosterone 'setting' for his body is to take enough testosterone to 'crash' his natural testosterone production to 0. Then after that happens, his body can't adjust his testosterone down any further to compensate for what he's taking (he's at 0 and can't go negative), so whatever he takes after the 'crash' will indeed raise his levels.

My question is, is this correct? Thanks for taking the time to read this, and thanks for any answers.

[kelkel]

Yes and no. Any exogenous testosterone will eventually shut down his natural production over time and he'll then be working off of only what the patch supplies.
Your body senses it does not need to produce it anymore and will therefore stop production. It does not "balance" itself between the two. Ever.

Your buddy needs to visit the nutrition forum as when most guys say they can't gain it really means they are not eating enough. You'd be surprised how much you need to eat to force your body to gain muscle. This is assuming the workouts are effective as well. It's also possible that blood work could reveal an issue that's suppressing his natural test production and thus inhibiting his gains. Full BW is always a great start.

Welcome to the forum.

[Scorpion0922]

He's trying to re-invent the wheel...slight boost to physique can be easily obtained with nutrition.

[yadda]

Yes and no. Any exogenous testosterone will eventually shut down his natural production over time and he'll then be working off of only what the patch supplies.
Your body senses it does not need to produce it anymore and will therefore stop production. It does not "balance" itself between the two. Ever.

Thanks - this is basically the way I thought it would work. Although you are saying basically any amount of testosterone in the patch will completely shut down his natural test production, even if what's in the patch isn't enough to entirely replace his natural test to the level it would be without it?

As a secondary question, do people use patches for bodybuilding purposes? Is there enough test in them for that? How strong are these patches?

[kelkel]

Thanks - this is basically the way I thought it would work. Although you are saying basically any amount of testosterone in the patch will completely shut down his natural test production, even if what's in the patch isn't enough to entirely replace his natural test to the level it would be without it

Correct.

As a secondary question, do people use patches for bodybuilding purposes? Is there enough test in them for that? How strong are these patches?

​Virtually never.

[ScotchGuard02]

A healthy 25 year old male will produce about 70mg/wk of natural testosterone. If you get 70mg/wk of exogenous Test, your testes will stop producing its own natural Test. When you stop the exogenous application of Test, now you have virtually ZERO Testosterone naturally for a while. Your body likes Test and depends on it for a number of critical functions. That's why there is a well tried and tested method of administering exogenous Test. Your question is only one small part of this process. A little knowledge can hurt people.

[yadda]

A healthy 25 year old male will produce about 70mg/wk of natural testosterone. If you get 70mg/wk of exogenous Test, your testes will stop producing its own natural Test.

Sure, I always got that My question was, what if you are producing 70mg/wk naturally but apply a patch once a day that gives you a total of 25mg/week (totally made-up number)? The guy posting above you says it would completely shut down your natural testosterone production. What do you say? My (previous) thoughts were that your natural testosterone would, in this case, drop down to roughly 45mg/wk, with the patch providing 25mg/wk - in other words the patch wouldn't help you at all. According to the guy posting above, it would be worse than not helping you at all, because you'd have 0 natural test/wk and 25mg/wk from the patch, for a total of only 25mg/wk.

Your question is only one small part of this process. A little knowledge can hurt people.

Yes I agree. That's why I'm asking questions.

Thanks.

[kelkel]

There is no math formula for what you're asking. It just doesn't find a "balance" like you're suggesting. Of course with a lower dose it will take longer for your HPTA to fully suppress, but it will do so. Any blood work showing LH (pituitary) function will reveal this.

[yadda]

Got it - thanks.