pre + post workout help

Alright keeping this short and simple last question just to clear my mind

Currently here's what I'm doing
"
30 minutes pre
25g whey
80g vitargo

Train

PWO
25g whey
40g vitargo

1 hour later balanced meal

Now two questions

would doubling the protein pre and post to 50g each be any beneficial while on tren and test due to protein synthesis

And secondly for my pre workout I have two option keep it the same or one hour pre to get away from two shakes a day I can do

1cup oats 1cup egg whites bit I'm worried about the digestion and thinking. Whey and vitargo might be a better choice for morning workouts

Whey protein shakes, in my opinion, should only be used post workout. Firstly, supplements are largely garbage anyway. It does not seem natural nor manly to forego meats to drink something chocolately. Secondly, whey protein is insulinogenic meaning it acts much like a sugar in the body. Post workout insulin spikes to blunt cortisol are useful. Spiking your insulin throughout the day is not.

Pre training should involve low GI carb sources (potatoes, rice) and proper amounts of water and sodium. Depending on your goals consuming extra calories while on tren (you mentioned increasing protein amount) can be useful, keep in mind tren has appetite suppressing effects in many.

While I have no personal experience with Vitargo, it sounds like a horrible idea (except for post workout during bulking phase). It claims to be "faster" (I assume it means higher glycemic load) than maltodextrin. Maltodextrin only was useful in increasing my bodyfat. Again, we want a slow release of carbohydrate from real food sources; not some huge spike that somehow only goes into muscles, bypassing the liver and adipose cells?

Thank for you for the helpful reply vitargo keeps levels elevated for 2 hours I take it at 6 am train at 6:30-8 and have zero crashes these are the only two times I use this Product it also has zero sugar so it's clean but I agree real food over supplements cause you don't know what you're getting supplement wise if anything at all

now what about protein intake 25g v's 50g post workout doesn't matter ?

Yes I'm bulking on tren with great results it's actually making me hungrier I'm gaining fat but I rather gain fat and Max muscle than not max muscle fat is easy to cut because we know how hard it is to make muscle I'm eating more than I should but rather be full than hungry all day

Info complex carbs ever meal except last meal

40/40/20 split thought about cutting carbs and calories in half but don't know currently at 2g carbs per body weight

I would go with the 50g of protein post workout, esp considering you are bulking and extra calories are of no concern. Zero sugar can be more of a marketing point than reality. Getting back to maltodextrin: it is technically a complex carb and so supplement companies market it as such. The average person thinks this means it is healthy and just like eating some whole grain pasta or a sweet potato. The problem is it does not act like most complex carbs, it starts to instantly break into simple carbs in stomach acid. It is a processed corn product and carries one of the highest GI ratings of any food at 105 (pure glucose is 100). This is often the crap that is put into weight-gainer powders.

taking test and tren should give you plenty of energy for your training I wouldn't be adding 120grams of pure carbs to your diet that's where the fat is coming from your body only burns 25 to 30 of carbs during a workout and your feeding it 80g pre and 40g post workout leaving your body with a 90 surplus then you feed it oats
cheers

Why rely so much on supplements?

If you have time to have proper meal 2 hours before training, and another proper meal after training you dont need any shakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Why rely so much on supplements? If you have time to have proper meal 2 hours before training, and another proper meal after training you dont need any shakes.

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He works out 30 minutes after waking up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Why rely so much on supplements?

If you have time to have proper meal 2 hours before training, and another proper meal after training you dont need any shakes.

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I'm not trying to derail this thread at all I find it very interesting

That said I've been using a recovery matrix intra/& PWO... P/C(some sugars for insulin spike but mostly complex C) BCAAs & creatine(5g Max) - my glycogen seems to deplete very quickly hence some sugars intra and post(lke mixed fruit etc)

I always eat prior to training and and then intra/PWO shk on top of my meals.... What's your thought BB/PLMike/DLD?!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NACH3

I'm not trying to derail this thread at all I find it very interesting That said I've been using a recovery matrix intra/& PWO... P/C(some sugars for insulin spike but mostly complex C) BCAAs & creatine(5g Max) - my glycogen seems to deplete very quickly hence some sugars intra and post(lke mixed fruit etc) I always eat prior to training and and then intra/PWO shk on top of my meals.... What's your thought BB/PLMike/DLD?!

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I am a powerlifter so I have longer workouts than most BBers.
I eat usually 2 hours before a workout.
I drink Gatorade right before and during my workouts with bcaas.
I drink a whey shake with coconut water and creatine right after my workout.
I eat yogurt and fruit about 30 minutes after my workout.
I eat a full meal about 1.5 hours after my workout.

I do not like working out while "fasted". I find some simple sugars help my performance. I don't care about the extra 160 or so calories. I'd rather lift more weight.

If I were the OP, I would definitely have a shake before the workout but I would have less sugar post workout.
However, I don't think he needs 80g of vitargo before and 40g post. He could easily get by with half that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

I am a powerlifter so I have longer workouts than most BBers.
I eat usually 2 hours before a workout.
I drink Gatorade right before and during my workouts with bcaas.
I drink a whey shake with coconut water and creatine right after my workout.
I eat yogurt and fruit about 30 minutes after my workout.
I eat a full meal about 1.5 hours after my workout.
Thx DLD, I'm the same when it comes to my simple sugars during w/o and my fruit etc PWO... I too, find it helps me push more weight and just feel better and stronger(whether it's in my head or not lol)
I do not like working out while "fasted". I find some simple sugars help my performance. I don't care about the extra 160 or so calories. I'd rather lift more weight.
I could never lift in a fasted state... Not w/HITing so definitely agree on this

If I were the OP, I would definitely have a shake before the workout but I would have less sugar post workout.
However, I don't think he needs 80g of vitargo before and 40g post. He could easily get by with half that.

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I agree ^^ HD doesn't need that much but rather more food imho

I also think my timing was a bit off... I'd eat then within an hr go and have bad heartburn half way in - duh lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NACH3

I'm not trying to derail this thread at all I find it very interesting

That said I've been using a recovery matrix intra/& PWO... P/C(some sugars for insulin spike but mostly complex C) BCAAs & creatine(5g Max) - my glycogen seems to deplete very quickly hence some sugars intra and post(lke mixed fruit etc)

I always eat prior to training and and then intra/PWO shk on top of my meals.... What's your thought BB/PLMike/DLD?!

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I eat full meal 2 hours before training, drink bcaas during workout, and if I have time for full meal after training dont have any shakes. If no time to eat meal have whey+bananas+oats shake.

Dont have carbs on the first half hour after training to try not to blunt the post training GH burst.

Supps only use for convenience when no time.

I take a shake of honey, oatmeal, protein as my pre-workout. I can't get enough "pickup" from a pre-workout drink like Amino Energy and I gas out only about an hour of hard training. The shake picks me up and gives me tons of energy for a 2.5 hour workout. I drink the same thing for my post-workout shake. Honestly, not sure if the science is there but it makes me feel better and I'm still staying lean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

I eat full meal 2 hours before training, drink bcaas during workout, and if I have time for full meal after training dont have any shakes. If no time to eat meal have whey+bananas+oats shake.

Dont have carbs on the first half hour after training to try not to blunt the post training GH burst.

Supps only use for convenience when no time.

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Yeah I like and try to eat real food all the time... The shks etc are for when bulking on top of meals and or if the time isn't there! Thx for the input BB DLD SCOTCH

Woke up an hour early cause I could sleep

1cup oats and 1 cup whites. 40g pro 60g cho

Ate this one hour pre then my pre workout 30 min pre and bcaas during

PWO
50g whey 40g vitargo

1 hour later home made balanced meal

Worked out pretty well today specially being leg day tons of energy I was worried about bloat and digestion but my body handled the oats pretty well

Also I'm gaining fat cause I'm eating to many calories specially carbs I was keto for over a year and now eating over 400g a day doesn't do me well my pro trainer said cut down to 200 a day like he does but everywhere you read 2g minimum while bulking I'm a 40/40/20 split. Fat is easy to lose the way I look at it muscle is hard to make I rather build all I can with extra fat while on cycles than stay lean and gain little muscle but I will be honest have been temped to cut my carb intake in half instead of 60-70g per meal 400+ go to 30 g a meal at 200-250 a day

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NACH3

I'm not trying to derail this thread at all I find it very interesting

That said I've been using a recovery matrix intra/& PWO... P/C(some sugars for insulin spike but mostly complex C) BCAAs & creatine(5g Max) - my glycogen seems to deplete very quickly hence some sugars intra and post(lke mixed fruit etc)

I always eat prior to training and and then intra/PWO shk on top of my meals.... What's your thought BB/PLMike/DLD?!

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If you do need a boost pre-training, a little fruit like you suggest is a good option. Fructose has a GI rating of only about 20 and has shown to only a small effect on beta cell insulin release. Do keep in mind most fruit has a rating nearly double this. It can provide you with a little sugar to sort of wake up the brain after a day at work. I am not a proponent of any stimulant pre-workout formulas as this is largely catabolic longer term.

Creatine is beneficial, but for those consuming diets high in meats and dairy (many athletes) it is rather unnecessary. But that is for another thread!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonbana

Alright keeping this short and simple last question just to clear my mind

Currently here's what I'm doing
"
30 minutes pre
25g whey
80g vitargo

Train

PWO
25g whey
40g vitargo

1 hour later balanced meal

Now two questions

would doubling the protein pre and post to 50g each be any beneficial while on tren and test due to protein synthesis

And secondly for my pre workout I have two option keep it the same or one hour pre to get away from two shakes a day I can do

1cup oats 1cup egg whites bit I'm worried about the digestion and thinking. Whey and vitargo might be a better choice for morning workouts

---

Im not sure vitargo is cholestrolfriendly. All those easy to digest, like white rice, are not cholestrolfriendly.
If you eat your brown rice and pasta the day before you dont need vitargo.
During workout u can get quick carbs from juice which is cholestrol and arteriefriendly. Like pomegranate with coffee and bcaa etc.
Nerdish but when u think like this u may up the doses:)

20 gram whey pre, bcaa's during, 40gram whey post along with dextrose sugar as a vehicle for all them supps/macros etc. dextrose is in gummy bears or Gatorade. I keep my carbs pre-post workout since I'm an easy gainer