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08-23-2016, 02:25 PM #1
Heart damage from Testosterone use? It's possible?
Hello everyone , I wanted to ask you something very important .
You often hear ( and read online too ) that the long-term testosterone use can lead to abnormalities of the heart , but this is real?? ie , the left ventricular enlargement is due to a direct effect of testosterone as many claim ( I do not think so ) , or is it due to a blood pressure increase ( more realistic ) ?
If we control the blood pressure and the Lipid panel (Hdl and Ldl) can we prevent any form of damage to the heart, right ?
Sorry but I continue to read this bad thing and I would like some reassurance about.
Thanks
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08-24-2016, 01:02 AM #2
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08-24-2016, 01:54 AM #3
In brief: AAS affect the heart. BP, Lipids, Homocysteine, RBC, Increased Vascular Reactivity, Estrogens spikes are the all entities you have to fight for. The risk exists, there's a lot literature it about. The only way you have to lower the risks is use it with responsability, monitor your blood and take time to rest between cycles. Keep in my mind that more dosages and duration are higher and more you increase the risk to develop troubles. To have a good results it's not necessary to inject huge quantity of AAS: even 300mg/week of test with a good diet, could give you a good mass muscle increment. When you often heard tell stories about Body Builders which died or develop big heart troubles, in the majority of the cases is they did AAS abuse for a long term, neglecting the risks. Here there's a list of what you have to avoid to minimize the risks ( heart troubles included ):
1) Use moderate dosages. Keep in mind that you can get a great results just with 5 times more supra-physiological of Testosterone ( around 300mg/week ), training hard and keeping a perfect diet.
2) Don't overcome 8-12 weeks of total cycle period.
3) Take supplements to help your body to tolerate at best the AAS stress during cycle ( Fish oil, NAC, Vit B complex, baby-aspirin )
4) BLOOD WORK ! Before, immediately after you begin a cycle, at mid-cycle and after PCT. This is the most important part.
5) DIET. Eat at best you can and avoid simply sugar. The most control of your cycle you have is through diet. REMOVE ALL SODIUM !
6) Cardio. Blood has to flow as much as possible. So cardio, EVERYDAY.
7) Take a long pause between cycles to make your body resume its physiological hormonal balance.
These are the most important things you have to carve in your mind.Last edited by Slacker78; 08-24-2016 at 01:59 AM.
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08-24-2016, 02:44 AM #4
Long term testosterone usage is TRT, and so the dosage should be as low as possible to mimic natural levels.
Proper TRT has opposite effect on heart and circulatory system, what is dangerous is to have low levels of testosterone , I can link several studies for this.
Of course if you abuse testosterone and steroids you can have this and several other life threatning problems.
Heart enlargement is more prevalent due to genetic causes and high competition athletes. For example several top marathon runners have this problem, highly doubt they were abusing testosterone.
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08-24-2016, 02:55 AM #5
I agree with slacker and bb.
I want to add, bodybuilders who die before their time, often die from heartattack. The heartattack is not from an enlarged heart. but from narrow veins/arteries in the heart. Triglycerides, high ldl, low hdl and high blood pressure are riskfactors.
Therefore i think its important to avoid high bloodpresure (sodium/potasium ratio) and to eat lots of arteriecleaning foodtypes. Also drink lots of water and dont be afraid of N0s, as they lower BP. Larginine is actually real good for bloodpressure and your cardiovascular system.
Also do cardio, specially when on as cardio can help on bad cholestrol and better all your cardiovascular system.
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08-24-2016, 03:11 AM #6
Yes, agree. L-Arginine is linked with NO conversion but ONLY to higher dosages ( many studies proven it ) and it could be hard for a man handle them without bad sides. Anyway, i've experimented by myself that in some individuals, this could be work well ( for example me ) as with 5 gr./ED, my blood pressure lowered. I suppose its effectiveness could vary from and individual to another one.
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08-24-2016, 03:19 AM #7
In every case, the most important things has to be scrupulously observed are RBC/HCT, LDL/HDL and Homocysteine. The latter is understimated but it could be a silent risk of potential heart attack. Further, androgens increase Tromboxanes A2 receptors density which is strongly related to imparied vascular reactivity. For these reasons, i suppose a baby-aspirin ( which blocks Tromboxanes synthesis ), is a MUST during an AAS cycle. As you can see, there's a lot of things to keep on eye regard cardiovascular system and it enough to neglect just one, to leave an open door for heart damages and vascular system.
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08-24-2016, 03:23 AM #8
I have an extremely trusted source (James Tiny West on youtube) who says its perfect to drop 12 g before every workout.
I have done this the last weeks and the only sides i have experienced is a little more liquid shit (sorry for the details) the day after. No bloatfeeling or stomach discomfort.
+ All the goodies ofcourse.
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08-24-2016, 03:28 AM #9
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08-24-2016, 03:31 AM #10"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
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Yes it is possible. You are adding synthetic hormones into your body. But to me My life motto has always been don't fear the reaper. Im not a buddhist so i will only live once. If its worth doing its worth over doing moderation is for fags.
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08-24-2016, 04:08 AM #11
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08-24-2016, 04:16 AM #12
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08-24-2016, 04:22 AM #13
I think nobody wants to die. I'm afraid of death and it's easy to tell when you think it's so far from you. This is why, my AAS use will be always limited to little gains. Not a Lion, it's enough to be a panther for me.
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08-24-2016, 04:23 AM #14
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08-24-2016, 04:28 AM #15
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08-24-2016, 04:56 AM #16"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
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08-24-2016, 04:58 AM #17"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
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08-24-2016, 05:04 AM #18
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08-24-2016, 07:34 AM #19
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08-24-2016, 07:56 AM #20
Research on HCY is still ongoing. Anyway I found this one study on chronic AAS ab(use).
Homocysteine induced cardiovascular events: a consequence of long term anabolicâ€androgenic steroid (AAS) abuse
It kind of supports your statement, and is a good reason to recommend remethylation factors (methylcobalamin, folate, B6) to anyone on cycle.
Those will help manage HCY.
Also remember - blood values only tell part of the story. You can have normal B9/B12 readings but elevated HCY is often indicative of intracellular MB12 deficiency.Last edited by hammerheart; 08-24-2016 at 07:59 AM.
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08-24-2016, 08:09 AM #21
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08-24-2016, 08:15 AM #22
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08-24-2016, 08:15 AM #23
Thanks god forum has no sound, 2 italians discussing would be noisy as hell.
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08-24-2016, 08:19 AM #24
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08-24-2016, 08:41 AM #25
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I would be more worried about long term couch and sugar abuse than steroids as far as heart health goes.
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08-24-2016, 12:48 PM #27RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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Your sodium intake has little effect on blood pressure.
Cochrane did a massive review of 34 studies which examined the effect of salt restriction on reducing blood pressure.
They found that restricting sodium intake only reduced blood pressure by a few mm Hg on average.
If you read the studies done on arginine it takes 30g taken IV to produce vasodilation.
When arginine is taken orally it has a 70% absorption rate.
This means you'd have to take at least 43g orally for vasodilation to occur.
If you want to have blood flow increases similar to arginine IV infusion you'd have better results manipulating insulin .
James Vest has no idea what he's talking about.
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08-24-2016, 01:11 PM #28Banned
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08-24-2016, 01:47 PM #30
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08-24-2016, 01:51 PM #31Banned
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08-24-2016, 01:55 PM #32
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08-24-2016, 02:00 PM #33RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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This is what I don't understand, the internet has made it so easy to do research there's no reason to take what anyone says at face value when it comes to medical advice.
I think Stan Efferding is the best bodybuilder/powerlifter/personal trainer on YouTube.
But I'll double check all his facts before implementing any of his advice.
It should unless you're Kel and you have that issue.
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08-24-2016, 02:15 PM #34
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08-24-2016, 02:34 PM #35
Less is the best. But it's true there are long esters which take effect after the first months. I prefer to stay in cycle for max 2 months using short esters as base ( Test prop for example ) . And give in these 2 months the best i can under evert aspect ( diet, cardio, training, supplements, blood work etc.. ). Dosages and times make the huge difference.
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08-24-2016, 07:49 PM #37
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08-24-2016, 11:13 PM #38
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08-25-2016, 11:35 AM #39
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08-26-2016, 01:16 PM #40
Very useful information, thanks.
essentially I agree with you that the abuse, in quantities and times, is harmful ...until now I have always respected your every point mentioned above.. (maybe except in dosages, I hold 500/600 mg a week test)
What is the NAC exactly?
What function does the baby-aspirin as supplement?
how can I completely remove the sodium?
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