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Thread: First Cycle Advice

  1. #1
    Barry87 is offline New Member
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    First Cycle Advice

    I'm starting my first cycle on 12th September. I did try epistane last year, but this time a powerlifting friend of mine has offered to get me everything I need for a proper cycle. I read the first cycle thread and most of that is in line with what he's suggested, but he has recommended doing a couple things differently including dosing so I was wondering what people's thoughts were on this:

    6 ft 1, 198lbs (15% bf), 29 years old, 6 years training.

    Week 1-12 - 250mg test enanthate on Mondays and Thursdays (500mg per week)
    Week 1-6 - 40mg Epistane ed*
    Week 1-14 - 0.5mg Arimidex eod.
    Week 13-14 HCG
    Week 14-17 - Clomid day 1 150mg, day 2-11 100mg, day 12-21 50mg.
    Week 15-18 - Nolvadex day 1 60mg, day 2-11 40mg, day 12-21 20mg.

    *He originally recommended Dbol to "kickstart" the cycle, but when I told him I had Epistane left over and have used it before without any side-effects he said it's fine to use that instead to see how I get on with the Test E.

    As to the differences, the sticky thread here recommends 0.25mg of Arimidex but he recommended 0.5mg, the sticky thread recommends doing HCG all the way through but he advised to use it inbetween the Test and PCT, he also set PCT up as 21 days of each SERM staggered to last the full 4 weeks with a big dose on the first days of each. Is all this just a matter of preference or does anything need changing?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Barry87; 08-28-2016 at 12:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry87
    I'm starting my first cycle on 12th September. I did try epistane last year, but this time a powerlifting friend of mine has offered to get me everything I need for a proper cycle. I read the first cycle thread and most of that is in line with what he's suggested, but he has recommended doing a couple things differently including dosing so I was wondering what people's thoughts were on this: 6 ft 1, 198lbs (15% bf), 29 years old, 6 years training. Week 1-12 - 250mg test enanthate on Mondays and Thursdays (500mg per week) Week 1-6 - 40mg Epistane ed* Week 1-14 - 0.5mg Arimidex eod. Week 13-14 HCG Week 14-17 - Clomid day 1 150mg, day 2-11 100mg, day 12-21 50mg. Week 15-18 - Nolvadex day 1 60mg, day 2-11 40mg, day 12-21 20mg. *He originally recommended Dbol to "kickstart" the cycle, but when I told him I had Epistane left over and have used it before without any side-effects he said it's fine to use that instead to see how I get on with the Test E. As to the differences, the sticky thread here recommends 0.25mg of Arimidex but he recommended 0.5mg, the sticky thread recommends doing HCG all the way through but he advised to use it inbetween the Test and PCT, he also set PCT up as 21 days of each SERM staggered to last the full 4 weeks with a big dose on the first days of each. Is all this just a matter of preference or does anything need changing? Thanks.
    I guess my first question is why do you want to cycle? Your stats lead me to believe that you are in good physical condition. In any event, that is your decision and your business.
    I have never used epistane but I try to avoid orals when possible. I would follow the first cycle thread and drop it. Also, because of the DHT you can suffer dry joints. At my age it is a reality, but may not be at yours.
    As far as the arimidex , each person is different however i have always used .25 eod and i have never had issues. I would start at that.
    One of the most important things you should do is blood work. You need to know where your starting point is. Please do not take this lightly. You will be thankful later on.
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  3. #3
    mietek is offline Member
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    it is better to take hCG during cycle, just 500iu / week

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    Barry87 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    I guess my first question is why do you want to cycle? Your stats lead me to believe that you are in good physical condition. In any event, that is your decision and your business.
    I have never used epistane but I try to avoid orals when possible. I would follow the first cycle thread and drop it. Also, because of the DHT you can suffer dry joints. At my age it is a reality, but may not be at yours.
    As far as the arimidex , each person is different however i have always used .25 eod and i have never had issues. I would start at that.
    One of the most important things you should do is blood work. You need to know where your starting point is. Please do not take this lightly. You will be thankful later on.
    I'm just in a rut, people either accept the slow pace of natural training after however many years or turn to PEDS, I guess I'm the latter. I've looked the same for about 2 years now, I can add a bit of strength in a calorie surplus but when I go into even a small deficit I lose most of it. Just tired of three steps forward and two steps back. Not expecting miracles from the cycle mind you, but I've seen what it's done for people around me. I'll drop the Epistane and go for 0.25mg Arimidex. I get blood work done semi-regularly for an unrelated issue so won't be a problem to check hormones and my liver while I'm there. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by mietek View Post
    it is better to take hCG during cycle, just 500iu / week
    Right, I'll make sure I have enough then, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry87 View Post
    I'm starting my first cycle on 12th September. I did try epistane last year, but this time a powerlifting friend of mine has offered to get me everything I need for a proper cycle. I read the first cycle thread and most of that is in line with what he's suggested, but he has recommended doing a couple things differently including dosing so I was wondering what people's thoughts were on this:

    6 ft 1, 198lbs (15% bf), 29 years old, 6 years training. If you're a recreational lifter, you need to train seriously for about three years before you cycle AAS. Your tendons/ligaments have to be strong enough to handle the extra strength you'll gain in your muscles. I've know too many guys that have had soft tissue injuries because their muscles got so much stronger than their connecting tissues could handle.

    Week 1-12 - 250mg test enanthate on Mondays and Thursdays (500mg per week) This looks ok
    Week 1-6 - 40mg Epistane ed*
    Week 1-14 - 0.5mg Arimidex eod. I prefer Adex, personally. Just start with 0.25mg/eod and if you feel sensitive nipples up it to 0.25mg/ed.
    Week 13-14 HCG Just run your HCG @ 250iu twice a week from week 1 until your last Test shot.
    Week 14-17 - Clomid day 1 150mg, day 2-11 100mg, day 12-21 50mg. 4 week regiment 100/50/50/50 mg's/ed per week should be fine.
    Week 15-18 - Nolvadex day 1 60mg, day 2-11 40mg, day 12-21 20mg. 40/20/20/20 should be fine for 4 weeks.

    *He originally recommended Dbol to "kickstart" the cycle, but when I told him I had Epistane left over and have used it before without any side-effects he said it's fine to use that instead to see how I get on with the Test E. Forget the dbol. You'll fill up with water like a balloon. Then you'll lose it all during PCT. I've run dbol for a kicker myself, not really worth it IMO. You can keep more gains after PCT if your diet's in check.

    As to the differences, the sticky thread here recommends 0.25mg of Arimidex but he recommended 0.5mg, the sticky thread recommends doing HCG all the way through but he advised to use it inbetween the Test and PCT, he also set PCT up as 21 days of each SERM staggered to last the full 4 weeks with a big dose on the first days of each. Is all this just a matter of preference or does anything need changing? I've seen those posts too. Too complex for my pea brain. LOL. Just keep the dosages I recommend and you should be fine. My philosophy on adex is to take enough so you don't get gyno and don't over do it.

    Thanks.
    Saw your post about being in a rut. If that's your only reason, there are ways to change up your eating/training to get out of ruts. The gains you will make with gear isn't going to be "free" your body is going to pay. Some guys have carpet acne, some guys have erectile dysfunctions, some guys lose hair, other guys have no issues at all. Which category you fall into will only reveal itself when you cycle and if the sides are bad, it's too late. Something to think about before you start. Just my .02

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    Barry87 is offline New Member
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    Not sure whether I'd qualify as a serious or recreational lifter, I don't compete in bodybuilding or powerlifting, my training has been consistent for 6 years though, 3-4 days a week with only one break due to a surgery a few years back. My deadlift PB is 180KG (400lbs) and my bench PB is 125KG (275lbs). I don't think I'm at my natural limit but at the same time I don't think I'm far away from it, genetically I guess I'm pretty average. This rut has lasted 2 years now and the only way I seem to be able to get stronger is to get fatter, then as soon as I dip a few hundred calories into a deficit to cut my lifts go back down. I don't think the routines I've used are at fault either (Wendler's 5/3/1 and Defranco's WSFSB). I've prepared myself for the side-effects though and warned my wife about them, lol. I've read up on all the dangers and I'll be keeping an eye out for the warning signs and monitoring my blood, if I get any side-effects that are too severe I'll pull the plug, start PCT and won't consider it again.

    I'll switch the PCT to the recommended one, at least it'll be easier to keep track of. Do you think I should drop the Epistane too like charger69 suggested?
    Last edited by Barry87; 08-29-2016 at 06:50 AM.

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    Couchlock is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry87 View Post
    Not sure whether I'd qualify as a serious or recreational lifter, I don't compete in bodybuilding or powerlifting, my training has been consistent for 6 years though, 3-4 days a week with only one break due to a surgery a few years back. My deadlift PB is 180KG (400lbs) and my bench PB is 125KG (275lbs). I don't think I'm at my natural limit but at the same time I don't think I'm far away from it, genetically I guess I'm pretty average. This rut has lasted 2 years now and the only way I seem to be able to get stronger is to get fatter, then as soon as I dip a few hundred calories into a deficit to cut my lifts go back down. I don't think the routines I've used are at fault either (Wendler's 5/3/1 and Defranco's WSFSB). I've prepared myself for the side-effects though and warned my wife about them, lol. I've read up on all the dangers and I'll be keeping an eye out for the warning signs and monitoring my blood, if I get any side-effects that are too severe I'll pull the plug, start PCT and won't consider it again.

    I'll switch the PCT to the recommended one, at least it'll be easier to keep track of. Do you think I should drop the Epistane too like charger69 suggested?
    I'd say get 2x your weight on bench before you cycle

    Jeezus, I'm 135 and at 285lb one rep max on bench, I've yet to run any cycle

    These are not an "easy button" to get big, but rather a way to go beyond your genetic potential

    So using prior to that, will just pass up your natural gains, it may get you there faster, but you do pay to play

    IMHO I'd go all fucking out natural, then see how you feel, and then decide

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    Barry87 is offline New Member
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    Like I say, I'm fairly average genetically when it comes to strength. I started out at about 140lbs but I'm 6 ft 1, I've put on nearly 60lbs in 6 years of training naturally and kept my body fat relatively low, so the effort has been there. But I genuinely don't believe that I will ever be benching 2x bodyweight (400lbs) with or without steroids , I'm 30 in a couple months so it's not like I'll be being surprised by any hidden potential at this point. I'd be more than happy with a 300lbs bench AFTER steroids to be honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry87 View Post
    Like I say, I'm fairly average genetically when it comes to strength. I started out at about 140lbs but I'm 6 ft 1, I've put on nearly 60lbs in 6 years of training naturally and kept my body fat relatively low, so the effort has been there. But I genuinely don't believe that I will ever be benching 2x bodyweight (400lbs) with or without steroids, I'm 30 in a couple months so it's not like I'll be being surprised by any hidden potential at this point. I'd be more than happy with a 300lbs bench AFTER steroids to be honest.
    60lbs of muscle is fucking fantastic
    It's technique more than strength really when it comes to bench press

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry87
    Not sure whether I'd qualify as a serious or recreational lifter, I don't compete in bodybuilding or powerlifting, my training has been consistent for 6 years though, 3-4 days a week with only one break due to a surgery a few years back. My deadlift PB is 180KG (400lbs) and my bench PB is 125KG (275lbs). I don't think I'm at my natural limit but at the same time I don't think I'm far away from it, genetically I guess I'm pretty average. This rut has lasted 2 years now and the only way I seem to be able to get stronger is to get fatter, then as soon as I dip a few hundred calories into a deficit to cut my lifts go back down. I don't think the routines I've used are at fault either (Wendler's 5/3/1 and Defranco's WSFSB). I've prepared myself for the side-effects though and warned my wife about them, lol. I've read up on all the dangers and I'll be keeping an eye out for the warning signs and monitoring my blood, if I get any side-effects that are too severe I'll pull the plug, start PCT and won't consider it again. I'll switch the PCT to the recommended one, at least it'll be easier to keep track of. Do you think I should drop the Epistane too like charger69 suggested?
    I am willing to bet your diet can take some fine tuning and up your anabolic response. All too often people think that their diet is in check and it is nowhere near where it should be. Please listen to the vets advice. If your diet is not in check, you will return to where you are after cycle.
    If you do decide to cycle.... Bloodwork, bloodwork, bloodwork

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    Barry87 is offline New Member
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    Currently it works out about:

    270g carbs
    235g protein
    75g fat
    2700 calories

    Meals are all prepped on a Sunday by the wife, most of the stuff comes from Musclefood (UK bodybuilding/healthfood website). Typical day might be eggs and oats on a morning, chilli with brown rice for lunch, steak and cauliflower mash for dinner (dinner is the only meal that's cooked on the day so it varies, family obligation), tuna sandwich, cottage cheese and a small handful of mixed nuts before bed. If you're wondering about my low calories overall, my job is VERY sedentary. Whenever I go much over 3,000 calories a day I put on more than 2lbs per week and not in a good way. I'm expecting I'll be able to raise calories more than usual on cycle.

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    Euroholic is offline "ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
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    You should be eating more than that mate. If you have hit a wall you should up your intensity. Do something different to give your body more stress that its not use too.
    What does your training routine look like?

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    Wendler's 5/3/1, I switch the variation of that routine every 3 months or so, currently doing the triumvirate version with 5x10 on two assistance exercises other than the main lift. I do it 4 days a week, so a bench day, overhead press day, deadlift day and squat day. Steady state cardio 3 times a week, one HIIT day. I've gone as high as 3,500 calories before but it makes me blimp up at a shocking rate, I think the problem there might be I spend 8 hours per day seated for work (unavoidable).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry87
    Wendler's 5/3/1, I switch the variation of that routine every 3 months or so, currently doing the triumvirate version with 5x10 on two assistance exercises other than the main lift. I do it 4 days a week, so a bench day, overhead press day, deadlift day and squat day. Steady state cardio 3 times a week, one HIIT day. I've gone as high as 3,500 calories before but it makes me blimp up at a shocking rate, I think the problem there might be I spend 8 hours per day seated for work (unavoidable).
    Everybody reacts differently however there are two things I would change. First, try eating 6 times per day. I would also change the routine every six weeks. Between week4-6 your body is adopting to the routine and your gains begin to diminish. Mentally it will also have a positive impact. Every single day increase your resistance (either reps or increase weight..
    Try those two and you may see some positive results without AAS. If you want some real expert advice go to the nutrition area. There are some real experts there.

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    Over the years I've tried 3 meals per day, 4 meals per day and 6 meals per day. I didn't notice any difference when the overall calorie intake and macros were the same, so settled in on 4 meals (not including any shakes) because I prefer reasonable portion sizes in the evening. When I first started out I did typical bodybuilding splits and changed my routine regularly, but what I noticed was although I was growing pretty rapidly, I wasn't getting much stronger in the big 4 lifts. I felt weak for my size. Wendler's 5/3/1 allows me to keep those big 4 lifts in the majority of the time and get the variation from changing the assistance work, it's a decent long-term routine for intermediates (plenty of people have used it for years with continued success).

    I understand it's the responsible thing to do to try dissuade people from steroids , I'm sure you get plenty of teenagers here looking for a shortcut to becoming huge. But I'm nearly 30 years old, been training for 6 years, used to compete in kickboxing, got a level 2 YMCA qualification in fitness instructing, I'm not a nutritional expert but I have a good handle on it and I've gained 60lbs so far naturally, I've learnt my body and it's (slow) metabolism. Maybe I've worded it wrong saying I'm in a rut, I haven't stalled completely, I'm just not happy with how slow the progress is after 6 years of natural training. I waited a lot longer than most of my training buddies to try steroids. The guy I actually started working out with, same routines as him for a year and we made the same progress, once he started doing test within 3 months he was outlifting me by a country mile and went his own way. He now deadlifts 550lbs to my 400lbs. I've waited a long time and put the effort in so I'm set on the idea. I appreciate the gesture for advice with nutrition and training, there's always more to learn, but it's AAS I don't know much about which is why I came here. The guy I'm buying off knows his stuff but second opinions seemed wise.
    Last edited by Barry87; 08-30-2016 at 05:18 AM.

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    Couchlock is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry87 View Post
    Over the years I've tried 3 meals per day, 4 meals per day and 6 meals per day. I didn't notice any difference when the overall calorie intake and macros were the same, so settled in on 4 meals (not including any shakes) because I prefer reasonable portion sizes in the evening. When I first started out I did typical bodybuilding splits and changed my routine regularly, but what I noticed was although I was growing pretty rapidly, I wasn't getting much stronger in the big 4 lifts. I felt weak for my size. Wendler's 5/3/1 allows me to keep those big 4 lifts in the majority of the time and get the variation from changing the assistance work, it's a decent long-term routine for intermediates (plenty of people have used it for years with continued success).

    I understand it's the responsible thing to do to try dissuade people from steroids, I'm sure you get plenty of teenagers here looking for a shortcut to becoming huge. But I'm nearly 30 years old, been training for 6 years, used to compete in kickboxing, got a level 2 YMCA qualification in fitness instructing, I'm not a nutritional expert but I have a good handle on it and I've gained 60lbs so far naturally, I've learnt my body and it's (slow) metabolism. Maybe I've worded it wrong saying I'm in a rut, I haven't stalled completely, I'm just not happy with how slow the progress is after 6 years of natural training. I waited a lot longer than most of my training buddies to try steroids. The guy I actually started working out with, same routines as him for a year and we made the same progress, once he started doing test within 3 months he was outlifting me by a country mile and went his own way. He now deadlifts 550lbs to my 400lbs. I've waited a long time and put the effort in so I'm set on the idea. I appreciate the gesture for advice with nutrition and training, there's always more to learn, but it's AAS I don't know much about which is why I came here. The guy I'm buying off knows his stuff but second opinions seemed wise.
    It's about calories

    You can split 2750 3 ways, or 6 ways, still 2750 cals

    Go to 4k

    I'm eating 4k at 135lbs, I don't get fat. Just stronger, as long as you use it

    And at 6'2" starting at 140lbs, you'd think you are juiced by the gains you'd make at 4 to 4.5k

    You obviously have a very high metabolism, give it a shot

    Plus it's damn near impossible to "over eat" if it's 99% clean nutrition

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry87 View Post
    Like I say, I'm fairly average genetically when it comes to strength. I started out at about 140lbs but I'm 6 ft 1, I've put on nearly 60lbs in 6 years of training naturally and kept my body fat relatively low, so the effort has been there. But I genuinely don't believe that I will ever be benching 2x bodyweight (400lbs) with or without steroids, I'm 30 in a couple months so it's not like I'll be being surprised by any hidden potential at this point. I'd be more than happy with a 300lbs bench AFTER steroids to be honest.
    Trust me its easier than you think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry87
    Over the years I've tried 3 meals per day, 4 meals per day and 6 meals per day. I didn't notice any difference when the overall calorie intake and macros were the same, so settled in on 4 meals (not including any shakes) because I prefer reasonable portion sizes in the evening. When I first started out I did typical bodybuilding splits and changed my routine regularly, but what I noticed was although I was growing pretty rapidly, I wasn't getting much stronger in the big 4 lifts. I felt weak for my size. Wendler's 5/3/1 allows me to keep those big 4 lifts in the majority of the time and get the variation from changing the assistance work, it's a decent long-term routine for intermediates (plenty of people have used it for years with continued success). I understand it's the responsible thing to do to try dissuade people from steroids, I'm sure you get plenty of teenagers here looking for a shortcut to becoming huge. But I'm nearly 30 years old, been training for 6 years, used to compete in kickboxing, got a level 2 YMCA qualification in fitness instructing, I'm not a nutritional expert but I have a good handle on it and I've gained 60lbs so far naturally, I've learnt my body and it's (slow) metabolism. Maybe I've worded it wrong saying tandI'm in a rut, I haven't stalled completely, I'm just not happy with how slow the progress is after 6 years of natural training. I waited a lot longer than most of my training buddies to try steroids. The guy I actually started working out with, same routines as him for a year and we made the same progress, once he started doing test within 3 months he was outlifting me by a country mile and went his own way. He now deadlifts 550lbs to my 400lbs. I've waited a long time and put the effort in so I'm set on the idea. I appreciate the gesture for advice with nutrition and training, there's always more to learn, but it's AAS I don't know much about which is why I came here. The guy I'm buying off knows his stuff but second opinions seemed wise.
    Thanks for keeping an open mind. I would like to make some additional comments...
    Rule #1- never depend on your supplier giving you the cycle. It is destined for destruction. Your supplier wants $ and really doesn't understand completely or will leave you hanging. Trust me, it doesn't matter how good a friend you are... Don't do it. May start out good but ends bad.
    What is your objective? It sounds like its aesthetics. If that is the case forget about the amount of weight your pushing.
    The reasons that I am pushing to try diet and exercise is because of the risks involved with AAS. You do not necessarily see the negative side effects until later down the road. You have had some very knowledgeable people comment andthe consensus is the same. Give it a try first. You can go to the diet section and some of the best are on their.

  19. #19
    Couchlock is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post

    Thanks for keeping an open mind. I would like to make some additional comments...
    Rule #1- never depend on your supplier giving you the cycle. It is destined for destruction. Your supplier wants $ and really doesn't understand completely or will leave you hanging. Trust me, it doesn't matter how good a friend you are... Don't do it. May start out good but ends bad.
    What is your objective? It sounds like its aesthetics. If that is the case forget about the amount of weight your pushing.
    The reasons that I am pushing to try diet and exercise is because of the risks involved with AAS. You do not necessarily see the negative side effects until later down the road. You have had some very knowledgeable people comment andthe consensus is the same. Give it a try first. You can go to the diet section and some of the best are on their.
    Dont depend on supplier in gyms or local buds.

    I can attest to that
    Talking to a huge fella I went to school with, who is also a 14 year aas user. He knows nothing about pct. Lol

    I was asking him if he could get me nolva

    He said
    'You dont need that shit, i got some dbol tabs"

    Im like what the figgity fuck kinda answer is that, you need to read partner


    Fwiw, hes been blasting and cruising and crashing at times for 14 years

    He has all the negative symtoms of improper use
    1 nice fuckable bitch tits
    2 nice rotund belly and love handles
    3 kinda feminized facial features
    4 and a 550 lb bench press

    Lol

    Advice from them kinds will mess you up royally

    Im in it for pure physique, i need a functioning weiner, hair, and a 6 pack

    Or its all for nothing as far as I'm concerned

  20. #20
    Paul Mr Universe is offline Junior Member
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    That should be fine for a first cycle imo. , Mild and no side effects try it and can change in 2nd stack if not happy

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