Sustanon or Test E for first cycle?

[fighternow]

Hi my weight is 78 kgs and my height is 185 cms. I do lifting for over a year. I do sports for 2 years. My fat percentage ~ 18


10-12 weeks sustanon (500mg every week/2 injection days)

For first 6 weeks dianabol (30mg everyday)

For last 4 weeks clenbuterol

I will take carsil (milk thistle) and evicap (vitamin E) every day during the cycle.Arimidex e3d.

PCT: After last injection, I will wait 2 weeks.Then I will take 40mg nolvadex and 100mg klomen for 4 weeks.


Do i need to use pregnyl during the sustanon cycle or in pct?


Test E. cycle:

10-12 weeks Test e. (500mg every week/2 injection days)

For first 6 weeks dianabol (30mg everyday)

For last 4 weeks clenbuterol

I will take carsil (milk thistle) and evicap (vitamin E) every day during the cycle.Arimidex e3d.

PCT: After last injection, I will wait 2 weeks.Then I will take 40/40/20 Nolvadex.

Is arimidex necessary for test e. cycle?


Which one is better? Im waiting for your advice for both cycles.

[Back In Black]

6'1
172lbs
18% body fat

Can you post a pic so we can see your level of development?

[DocToxin8]

The sustanon gets you going quick by its propionate and phenyl prop esters, but some front loading with test e should kick you into gear quite fast as well.
While the two cycles are quite alike, sustanon is a little more difficult to estimate the amount of test still in your body than just using test e.
And sustanon contains a longer ester than enanthate as well.

Still, they are similar enough that price and trust in the products would weigh in more than any pharamcologic differences.

Arimidex can be just as much needed with test e than with sustanon.
Both will cause quite high levels of androgens in your body when doing 500mg for 12 weeks, and thus also estrogen formation.
So keep arimidex on hand in any case, you might not need it if you don't care about a little bloat, but in case of gyno or increased blood pressure it's irresponsible not to have it in case.

Some pregnyl during cycle at 250u 3x a week certainly wont hurt with PCT recovery. But remember than pregnyl/hCG also increase aromatase, increasing the need for an AI like adex.

[fighternow]

So if i add pregnyl to my cycle, I should add arimidex too. Right?

[fighternow]

6'1
172lbs
18% body fat

Can you post a pic so we can see your level of development?

I dont have any recent pics of mine now. Only vids.

However, I can upload my 6. month photos (I do bb for over a year) I gain a lot of muscle mass but almost the same fat if we compare with my recent condition.

[Back In Black]

Really you haven't been training long enough IMO. You have so much more natural growth left in you at 20 years old and lots of potential long term health risks cycling at your age.

Visit our diet and training sections to achieve the best you can naturally.

In the meantime here is some reading

The young and Steroids


Explanation of HPTA / Endocrine System & How Steroids Affect You

http://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutri...%2A%2A%2A.html

[fighternow]

Really you haven't been training long enough IMO. You have so much more natural growth left in you at 20 years old and lots of potential long term health risks cycling at your age.

Visit our diet and training sections to achieve the best you can naturally.

In the meantime here is some reading

I got you but Im not going to get on the roid train belive me

2 cycles I will do. Thats it. Even if i want to do more i cant because of my income. I cant pay for these roids all the time. First cycle (this one) for clean bulk and the other one will be cutting cycle after three months.

I think 2 cycles wouldn't hurt. Maybe,i can continue when i graduate and have a decent salary

I believe you can help me with these questions
What do you suggest for me? Which cycle is better and what can be added on those cycles?

[DocToxin8]

I agree with BackInB. that you should wait doing AAS.
1 year isn't much and once you do your first cycle you'll probably never set a new Personal record, etc without gear in the future.

And if your going to anyway;
You need to keep an AI on hand in any case, whether you need to use it on cycle to reduce estrogen might be more probable if you use pregnyl as well, but it depends on what level of estrogen sides you're willing to tolerate also.

[Mr.BB]

I got you but Im not going to get on the roid train belive me

2 cycles I will do. Thats it. Even if i want to do more i cant because of my income. I cant pay for these roids all the time. First cycle (this one) for clean bulk and the other one will be cutting cycle after three months.

I think 2 cycles wouldn't hurt. Maybe,i can continue when i graduate and have a decent salary

I believe you can help me with these questions
What do you suggest for me? Which cycle is better and what can be added on those cycles?

How are you going to afford bloodwork and medical help if anything goes wrong???

Most of expenses are for nutrition, gear is cheap.

[DocToxin8]

And about AIs;
I feel they restrict growth a little, might just be because they reduce bloat and increase risk of joint pain.
(I've removed the mammary glands so I can't get gyno even if I ate pure estrogen, so I only use AIs for aesthetic purposes and for reducing blood pressure)

So I would opt for not using an AI to control bloat (unless it's very severe) on a bulking cycle and rather use it for gyno prevention. But you MUST keep it on hand, or at least a SERM like nolvadex that can stop gyno formation if it occurs.
However that's just my view, I can see benefits of keeping estrogen low (but not too low) on a bulking cycle as well. For one, whether bulking or cutting, I believe lower estrogen will increase fat burning somewhat.

And once again listen to the others that try to keep you from making a mistake, blood work, etc is important.
If you fuck yourself up with improper PCT or just because you react in such an such a way, you're really not prepared for that at the moment.

[Back In Black]

It only takes one cycle to possibly hurt you.

Take the advice, spend your money on quality food and post a thread in the diet section with an updated photo. The one you posted is higher than 18% body fat btw.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Listen to BB. The gear is the cheap part.
And there is no chance in hell your gonna stop. Its like getting your first tatoo. Soon you will have some more tatoos.
U just 20?...Aas is for 25+ only. That is a hard limit. No workarounds.
One year. There is no use in using aas before your natty potential says stop. Usually after 5 years with optimal training and diett.

Fukk this?...yes, sure. But then u have entered the wrong forum buddy. We pratice safety first because aas is dangerous.
If you wanna break the speedlimit, talk in your cellphone, have 5 beers and get blown while driving, you just go ahead. Plenty of other forums. But not us, because we care about your health.

[marcus300]

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.

[fighternow]

Thank you all. It is nice to hear "dont use AAS". It shows you care about people here

Have you ever said or heard "wowww you are 19 but you look like 28" I hear it all the time. I was a teenager when I was 11 lol. IMO, my growth fully stopped.

Also, I have money for a healthy nutrition. I know the expensive part of this thing is nutrition. Im planning to get 200 gr protein everyday during the cycle. However, Im not sure about carbs. With low carb+high protein diet, I can lower BF and gain muscle mass without roids but very slowly. Im wondering this diet with roids get the job done quickly.

[Back In Black]

It's irrelevant how old you look, read the links and posts again.

You should be getting at least 200g protein every day, on cycle or not. But as you haven't started a diet thread yet I'm guessing you think your diet is spot on.

If you really want to take the risks and cycle now when your own natural test is at its highest then here you go, in the eyes of the law you are an adult

My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

[fighternow]

Thanks for all your concerns but i think i will do it.

The last question is, do i have to inject hcg during or post teraphy ? I mean its a strong medicine, is it necessary? Some say use it some say dont. Im confused about it.

I hope I wont be in your ***Cycles going wrong for the young*** topic lol.

If i will start to do my first cycle, i will post my log with pics.

[Back In Black]

Read the links you have been given.

Don't forget when you log you progress the bloodwork pre, during and post cycle.