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I am doing 2ML injections. (3 weeks in, Loving it :bbAily:)
1 ML Sustaplex 350
1 ML Tren A
I usually rotate between my Vastus Medialis and Rectus Femouis.
I end up hitting the same spot every 8 days on this cycle.
Well holy shit.
I currently feel like I have been shot in the leg. No infection, no visual swelling no heat. Just pure pain. I can't even straighten my leg. I iced it all last night woke up still hurting.
Whats a brother to do?
You're pinning the tear drop???? crazyyyy
Quad shot should be where your pocket is located. Use your glutes too (glute spot is not in the ass, its more the hip than the ass).
Pinning those areas of the quads is easy for me. I usually do it when taking my morning dump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.BB
I may have to switch to glute shots
So its easy, or give pain like being shot??? I dont understand....Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard.On
Another mistake is to do injections in same place where you shit, not to mention hands sterility...
I've had the same problem in the past when using UGL meds--did not have the issue with pharma. I don't have scientific backing for my opinion but, I believe the issue was caused by questionable purity of AS from UGLs.
Alternating hot and cold compresses during the first day of discomfort helped a lot in my case. Pain usually subsided in appx. two days. It can be a bitch--I sympathize.
Hope it resolves quickly.
I have been injecting those spot for 2 years. Never felt this. I think I realize the problem now actually. I am catching a cold. Making it worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.BB
Also I don't know what you do while taking a shit. Maybe after I wipe my ass it could be considered unsanitary. The whole process up until then, I'd say pretty safe.
I use hand sanitizer and swabs always regardless.
I can handle 2 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum II
I will try some more hot/cold compress
Thanks
Sorry, but if you actually look it up bathrooms and kitchens are the dirtiest place in every house, although different type of bacterias.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard.On
Carry on, I just have too much useless information in my brain :(
I would not pin while shitting
Christ your going deep in muscle tissue
Literally implanting an infection if things are not 100% sterile.
I mean why chance it
An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure
I had that happen once.Now do mostly delts but when I do my leg its at the top.
It might just be from pinning in the same place for too long,Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum II
or as Magnum describes it can be the gear.
I've had similar experiences when using lots of UG gear, an actually started Sust-350 when I started to feel bad.
Did some bloodwork and the doctor said:
"You got heart attack values on scores of muscle damage and liver strain"
So naturally I tested more specifically for the heart, but no,
The muscle damage was probably from the quads having been injected too often and too much with UG gear that contained way too much preservatives or other shit. My kidneys took a real beating cause it the muscle damage among other things.
Anyways, go take some blood and see, and rotate injection sites.
Elevated Creatine Kinase (CK) is very normal after hard weight lifting training, or any sport that pushes you to the limit for what matter. Also liver transaminases will get elevated from working out. It definitely was not from injecting in quads or from UG gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by DocToxin8
For kidneys it is normal to remove this muscle waste byproducts, although it takes a few days for them to be able to filter it out.
Real beating to the kidneys is from elevated blood pressure, for example from not taking an Aromataze Inhibitor while on a ton of gear.
Yeah, elevated CK is normal after all excerzise, and liver enzymes (which aren't only in the liver) like ALAT also rise after training.
Taking many years of blood tests into account, seeing how high my CK and ALAT normally get when training, what happened this one time, was different.
I can't say for certain what was the cause, but going by the fact that there have been people hospitalized with CK values higher than earlier thought possible after muscle damage from shady UG products,
and the fact that it took me 3 weeks, not 3 days,
to normalize these values and stop feeling sick,
that points me to something being wrong that I hadn't experienced before.
And I think that was the gear.
My kidneys took some beating too,
whether this was from myoglobin and other proteins leaking out of damaged muscle, which is a case of rhabdomyolysis,
or whether it was something in the gear I don't know.
Also, all AAS, but especially oral C17 alkylated steroids cause CK to rise,
but only modestly compared to heavy muscle damage.
Injecting into the same area too often, but then we're talking really really often, can cause muscle damage was my point though.
Sorry, but I fail to understand how injecting oil causes release of CK in any meaningful number.Quote:
Originally Posted by DocToxin8
I stay away from quad shots because of this very reason. Every now and then it gets me and it's horrible. Op take a few days of anti inflammatories.
Any IM injection in any area can and will cause an increase in CK that's one of the basic things they teach us in med school.
Rhabdomyolysis of the deltoid muscle in a bodybuilder using anabolic-androgenic steroids: a case report. - PubMed - NCBIQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr.BB
That's one case report i found very fast, I've seen others as well.
It's very uncommon, and may not be related to injecting oil in the same place over and over at all, but rather be caused by something in the gear or unsterile use. However, I've hear anecdotal reports from people I know as well that some people have injected not only in the same muscle, but virtually at the same place, over and over, and this has led to an abscess.
It makes sense if you think about it.
You're injecting something into an area and injecting more before it ever has a chance to clear out, that the body can end up encapsulating the depot, which then can lead to an abscess isn't very at stretched.
However, regular gear aside, some brands of UG gear has much higher content of presevatives and is also less clean, and can contain stuff like benzyl benzo ate which you don't find in human grade gear.
While normally X factors with UG labs doesn't make you sick,
there have been several cases of it happening.
So injecting in the same place over and over, I'd say it's prudent to avoid that.
And especially with UG gear.
And what Chab said is also a factor;
Any IM shot can cause a rise in CK, probably due to muscle damage.
And a final point about oil and muscles;
How did Greg Valentinos "arms explode?"
Was it just unsanitary use?
Or did the amount of oil and shots in a relatively small area factor in as well?
I really can't get comfortable injecting anywhere but my quads, I really am paranoid about not properly aspirating. So I don't pin in hard to reach areas that I have to twist to see, and possibly go deeper as I push the plunger.Quote:
Originally Posted by DocToxin8
So I to left leg Monday, right leg Thursday.
And repeat every week. When all said and done that's going to 12 shots in each leg after 12 weeks of 1.25 to 1.5ml each shot
Is this too frequent?
I would use heat only, as opposed to ice....heat heals,Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard.On
help the oil and crystals dissipate..
after every injection I use heat
I pinned my calves once with test p... I literally limped around for a month. First week my leg was drawn up and couldn't be straightened. Since then I said screw spot injections.
No, that's totally fine. You're injecting once a week into a big muscle,Quote:
Originally Posted by Couchlockd
and you have several sites in the quads you can hit as well.
I usually divivde my quads into three areas, so it's no problem.
Don't take my post as that you have to be THAT worried about rotating sites.
Actually, when we're talking 10-12 weeks cycles with two injects a week this is t really an issue, but when you are on gear most of the year, then rotating sites matter IMO.
(But I'm not too keen on only using delts, it's a small muscle)
what about SubQ shots?
I always shoot SubQ with a new batch, just in case it contains bacteria,
as removing oil from a SubQ shot would be easy, whereas removing oil shot IM is nearly impossible. BUT FYI; THIS IS PARANOIA!
I still like SubQ shots for other reasons as well though,
it provides stable blood levels and is very easy to do,
as long as your able to push the oil through a 25G.
Ive used 23G needles SubQ, but I would rather just go IM if I had to use a 23G.
Also, don't go over 0,5ml first time you inject SubQ,
as its usual to react a little he first times;
Meaning it has some PIP, looks red for a day or three.
But now, I've injected as much as 2ml SubQ,
however, that looks kinda strange the first day or two, until the lump spreads out, but I don't get any redness any more, at least not for more than an hour or two.
If you've interested in SubQ injections of AAS I can go into more detail, but that covers the introduction.
Well this thread took a bit of a turn.
Just an update:
Used heat only last night and Alieve. My leg was swelling up a bit and I was burning up (prob tren) Woke up this morning. Swelling is still there but pain has decreased by 50%.
Feeling much better. Must have nailed a nerve or something.
yes, "hurts don't it" is sometimes the theme with pinning. i usually work on steady handed injections for the conventional spots in the following part: delts, but cheeks, quads. i use different needle lengths but always go with 18guage due to the thickness of my oil BECAUSE i'm paranoid about AAS crashing in solution. yea i guess it's stupid because i use enough BA and BB. anyways, one of my quad shots did something weird awhile ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard.On
The funny thing is that where i pinned (rectus femoris, or vastus lateralis) is not where i got the PIP. the pain was coming from the vastus medialis. it felt like my mother in law clubbed me with a hammer at night while i was sleeping. she may have... it hurt so bad for days. then it just faded into nothing
My life insurance sent someone to my house to do a physical after a beyond hard, day at work. That evening I decided to split a couple of chords of wood, then here comes the lady to pull my blood. It took an hour to get my blood pressure to an acceptable tolerance and when the blood results came back my ck levels were extremely high. Showed many signs of chronic swelling and possible liver damage, at least that's how my wife read it... I looked at it and said "congrats honey you married a fucking athlete" what was going on just before a blood test was drawn greatly affects the outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by DocToxin8
Explain crashing in solution...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlolec
huh, really? you want me to teach you something? or maybe i made a mistake?
well i don't know all that much about how a crash happens, but it's when the AAS crytalizes while it's in the oil. the oil is supposed to prevent this, but it's really the BA that prevents it. BB too a little i think. <-real pharm grade uses very little BB and BA (because of the equipment they have i think.) I made my own stuff. most shit is UGL at different degrees. in fact i'd say that most stuff labled pharm grade is just a very high quality, lovingly made, UGL product with a good powder source, possibly verified by a mass spectrometer. that may piss some guys here off. some say you can solve this problem by heating the gear again, but i say fuk that.
I avoid it all together by using thicker oils and at least a ml of bb in a 30ml vial at 250mg, or 200mg/ml. a crash is sure to happen if your gear gets too cold. there are other factors like high mg/ml concentration that will increase the likelihood of a crash. (some of the guys disagree with having a thicker oil. i had a cautious reason for using thicker oils in addition to avoiding a crash, but i forget what it was...) every brew is a new experience with new things to learn. right now i'm going over the marginal benefit of thicker oils versus a smaller needle. seems like a lot of the very experience guys around here use small gauge needles. to be honest i might thin things up a bit on this next brew because not only do i filter, but i also pressure cook.
did that answer your question satisfactorily?
like one member just explained to me in detail regarding certain practices it's a dirty dirty game with few giving a real shit. it's a dope game! not regulated! -every man and women for themselves.
a lot of this is just my own conjecture. i may get corrected, so double check your decisions while taking my explanations with a grain of salt. if i was certain i wouldn't put this disclaimer up.
couchlockd, PM me and i'll send you my favorite links for brewing
Thanks for the explanation of home brewing and crashing Tlolec,
and you're right about some Pharma products really being UG.
F.ex: I was recently in Turkey, and since the coup everything is more regulated it seems, and you're no longer SUPPOSED to get gear in the pharmacies without a script. Many pharmacies skip this little detail though; but they also do something else, what they present as Pharma grade gear is really UGL.
Good quality UGL gear, but still.
I think crashing happens mostly with UGL gear also.
Since I started using AAS and I mostly got Pharma grade gear until now,
you see some differences that tells a lot too.
F.ex, there was no Pharma grade test prop at higher than 100mg/ml concentrations. I remember Testex amps from Schering, they contained 2ml of oil in each amp, with a total of 200 or 250mg test prop in the vial total.
So obviously one needs more solvents like BA and BB to get to a much higher than 100mg/ml test prop. And the thickness of the oil will also affect solubility, as a thinner oil would be less hydrophobic, I think.
And the BA and BB is absorbed pretty fast.
So when the oil in itself cannot hold the amount of steroid in it without BA and BB, it stands to reason crashing can occur.
Pharma grade gear isn't supposed to contain BB at all, and BA only in 0,9%.
I've never encountered real Pharma grade gear where the oil was very thin either.
Now I've totally detailed the thread, sorry OP,
hope your leg is better now.
since you haven't got a fever I wouldn't worry about infection at least,
probably hit a nerve.
No tiolec, I wanted you to teach me something, and you did. Thanks
I didn't mean to sound condescending when asking, ideas truly humbly asking
i'm sorry OP. your leg will get better man.
no no, i like the way you asked because i could tell it peaked your interest. i just thought it was funny that 'I was being asked a question.'
i'm usually the one that asks the questions. DocToxin knows the game waaay more than i do. congratulations on making your own stuff. now all we need is a mass spectrometer to id the impurities and foreign substances.
somebody was telling me that powders are more iffy than buying UGL, or "pharm" grade stuff. honestly i doubt that most UGLs use mass spectrometer testing to evaluate the quality of the raws they use to make juice. one needs a bachelors degree in bio engineering, or something to really determine quality and talk business with Chinese suppliers, which is where 99% of the raws come from. getting raws straight from the manufacturer is best. you can tell that by the prices, but that doesn't mean dirt cheap powder is good. high purity powder has justified cost. An excellent UGL will use Mass Spec testing on their raws and have a steady connection to a reputable and long standing company in china i imagine. a good company will send a small amount of powder for testing on the customer side.
-i like this lifestyle