AI and 1st test cycle.

**Az0342** · 09-30-2016, 02:55 PM

So I placed an order for everything I should need for a first cycle. I plan on doing 400mg test cyp for 12 weeks. Well I screwed up on adding up the amount of anastrozol I'll need and came up short. So my question is; should I wait until 3-4 weeks in to start it, or place another order and wait for it to arrive?

**numbere** · 09-30-2016, 03:51 PM

Place another order and wait to have all of the necessary compounds and ancillaries before starting.

**Ashop** · 09-30-2016, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Az0342

So I placed an order for everything I should need for a first cycle. I plan on doing 400mg test cyp for 12 weeks. Well I screwed up on adding up the amount of anastrozol I'll need and came up short. So my question is; should I wait until 3-4 weeks in to start it, or place another order and wait for it to arrive?

With AI's they are used to PREVENT problems. I always suggest using them starting at day 1 and through out to avoid any issues from ever getting the
chance to occur.

**DocToxin8** · 09-30-2016, 05:42 PM

Your first cycle, and you wonder if it's smart to start it before you have all the compounds you're gonna need?

**Az0342** · 09-30-2016, 05:53 PM

Well you see Doc, most people get information from forums such as this very one that we are on. Which is Full of peoples opinions based off of their experience. I have seen many people say to start AI's,when and if symptoms occur. It's not like I'm one of those guys that got themselves in a predicament and I'm here pleaing for help. And I'm pretty sure I didn't asked to start before I had all the compounds I'm gonna need I simply asked if I'm going to need more.

**4linked** · 09-30-2016, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Az0342

Well you see Doc, most people get information from forums such as this very one that we are on. Which is Full of peoples opinions based off of their experience. I have seen many people say to start AI's,when and if symptoms occur. It's not like I'm one of those guys that got themselves in a predicament and I'm here pleaing for help. And I'm pretty sure I didn't asked to start before I had all the compounds I'm gonna need I simply asked if I'm going to need more.

Well you could start and then you find out at week 7 your nipples a puffy and hurt and if you need to up your ai you won't be able to. Just order from a research company. Takes like 3 days

**Iceberg** · 09-30-2016, 07:15 PM

Some people start at day 1. When I did I crashed my e2 and was sore as fuck. Some people start at 2 weeks. And then there are some that don't take it till bloodwork at 5-6 weeks and only take it if needed. Then some people take it per symptoms. Safe bet is to have ev thing u need before u start.

**songdog** · 09-30-2016, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Az0342

Well you see Doc, most people get information from forums such as this very one that we are on. Which is Full of peoples opinions based off of their experience. I have seen many people say to start AI's,when and if symptoms occur. It's not like I'm one of those guys that got themselves in a predicament and I'm here pleaing for help. And I'm pretty sure I didn't asked to start before I had all the compounds I'm gonna need I simply asked if I'm going to need more.

Wat you say is true we do have a few guys who say that.BUT that isnt wat we as a whole try to teach here.So sorry about the confusion.I would suggest reading our stickys.There is a ton of info there that you will find very helpful.

**chab** · 10-01-2016, 01:13 AM

My advice, secure everything before starting the cycle, do not start and assume that you gonna get the stuffs before the supply u have ends; u can never know for sure.
And yes u do need an AI from day 1 because simply why you wanna risk gyno ? (I have a friend with a very nice physique and small gyno problem that ruins his appearance just because he refused to take an AI with cycle).

**DocToxin8** · 10-01-2016, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Az0342

Well you see Doc, most people get information from forums such as this very one that we are on. Which is Full of peoples opinions based off of their experience. I have seen many people say to start AI's,when and if symptoms occur. It's not like I'm one of those guys that got themselves in a predicament and I'm here pleaing for help. And I'm pretty sure I didn't asked to start before I had all the compounds I'm gonna need I simply asked if I'm going to need more.

I understand completely and meant no offense, it's just so many that have allready gone ahead with what they were doing, and then asking if it's ok to do what they are doing.

An your right about the conflicting views on AI use, I don't necessarily agree with everyone, or even the majority regarding when to use it,
I do however agree one shouldn't run a cycle without it on hand.
SERMs can be used as an alternative, but I "dislike" SERMs personally.
But then again, I can't get gyno so E2 management for me is for another purpose than for the majority.

But my views on when to use AIs aside, I'd recommend everyone to have it in their Arsenal at all times.

**Az0342** · 10-03-2016, 08:51 AM

Thanks everybody for the direction. AI's re-ordered.

**Chicagotarsier** · 10-03-2016, 09:38 AM

First cycles are the best reference material for future cycles. Doing it from day 1 through day last gives you the knowledge and backgound to do it again.

If you are in it for the long run then knowing your first two test cycles cold is so very helpful.

**robertwayn3** · 10-03-2016, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by songdog

Wat you say is true we do have a few guys who say that.BUT that isnt wat we as a whole try to teach here.So sorry about the confusion.I would suggest reading our stickys.There is a ton of info there that you will find very helpful.

Soo much good info in those stickies for newbies like myself. thanks for all the great info guys.

**robertwayn3** · 10-03-2016, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier

First cycles are the best reference material for future cycles. Doing it from day 1 through day last gives you the knowledge and backgound to do it again.

If you are in it for the long run then knowing your first two test cycles cold is so very helpful.

Chicago.. It is said that your first few cycles should be 500mg of test-e or test-c.. can you minimize side effects with a lower dose? Say 350mgs or 400mgs? ..or would you be wasting a cycle?

**Chicagotarsier** · 10-04-2016, 02:02 AM

Lower sides..yes. Less Test = Less Estrogen = Less sides
Wasting a cycle...imho yes. Less Test = Less Growth

500 is a "low dose" and the converted Estrogen is simple to handle with AI. It is high enough level of test that you will see growth especially starting week4-5 when the dose gets near the peak ester level. you would be disappointd in a lower cycle dose than 500

**75 Dogs** · 10-04-2016, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

But then again, I can't get gyno so E2 management for me is for another purpose than for the majority.

Can I ask why you can't get gyno? I haven't heard about this...sounds like I could learn something.

**Couchlock** · 10-04-2016, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by 75 Dogs

Can I ask why you can't get gyno? I haven't heard about this...sounds like I could learn something.

I would assume, and I am just speculating

He had gyno before, and had to have surgery to remove.

So his receptors in breast area do not exsist, hence no future possibilities of getting it

Still doesn't mean estrogen doesn't need chin checked, cuzz it is a carcinogen

**DocToxin8** · 10-04-2016, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

I would assume, and I am just speculating

He had gyno before, and had to have surgery to remove.

So his receptors in breast area do not exsist, hence no future possibilities of getting it

Still doesn't mean estrogen doesn't need chin checked, cuzz it is a carcinogen

Your speculation is almost right on;
I've had gyno surgery before, but i never had gyno.
I just took the operation as a preventative measure as I thought;
Will I ever need to be able to grow titties? I decided I did not.

E2 needs to be kept in check for other reasons though,
for me it's mostly about water retention (cosmetic) or water retention (blood pressure) that's the issue with high levels of E2.
(Most of the time I can control this through diet though)

E2 being carcinogenic? Sure it is.
But to what degree?
We put postmeno. women on E even though it increases cancer risk,
simply because it makes them feel better. (Osteoporosis being a factor too)

I would speculate that E (in men) is most carcinogenic in breast tissue (like women, but I don't have those tissues),
and in the prostate. (Which I do have)

However, to all you,
Keep E2 in check, but if you're worried about cancer then I wouldn't use AAS either. Remember that cancer is an evolutionary process, where cells get mutations in their tumor suppressor genes like P53, and mutations that activate oncogenes.
Tumor supressor genes would normally kill the cell (apoptosis, suicide) when the DNA is damaged,
Oncogenes make the cell (and it's cell line; daughters) increase proliferation; cell division.

So when mutations in both are there you have a cell line that will replicate much faster AND accumulate DNA damage (since it doesn't kill itself)
However, this is still not a cancer cell, but the cell line will eventually give rise to it.

Still, one of the most important factors to prevent cancer (aside from strong carcinogens, like aflatoxin) is your own immune system.
Keep your immune system working,
and chances for cancer are much less.
(As a general rule)

**75 Dogs** · 10-04-2016, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

Your speculation is almost right on;
I've had gyno surgery before, but i never had gyno.
I just took the operation as a preventative measure as I thought;
Will I ever need to be able to grow titties? I decided I did not.

E2 needs to be kept in check for other reasons though,
for me it's mostly about water retention (cosmetic) or water retention (blood pressure) that's the issue with high levels of E2.
(Most of the time I can control this through diet though)

E2 being carcinogenic? Sure it is.
But to what degree?
We put postmeno. women on E even though it increases cancer risk,
simply because it makes them feel better. (Osteoporosis being a factor too)

I would speculate that E (in men) is most carcinogenic in breast tissue (like women, but I don't have those tissues),
and in the prostate. (Which I do have)

However, to all you,
Keep E2 in check, but if you're worried about cancer then I wouldn't use AAS either. Remember that cancer is an evolutionary process, where cells get mutations in their tumor suppressor genes like P53, and mutations that activate oncogenes.
Tumor supressor genes would normally kill the cell (apoptosis, suicide) when the DNA is damaged,
Oncogenes make the cell (and it's cell line; daughters) increase proliferation; cell division.

So when mutations in both are there you have a cell line that will replicate much faster AND accumulate DNA damage (since it doesn't kill itself)
However, this is still not a cancer cell, but the cell line will eventually give rise to it.

Still, one of the most important factors to prevent cancer (aside from strong carcinogens, like aflatoxin) is your own immune system.
Keep your immune system working,
and chances for cancer are much less.
(As a general rule)

Haha...yeah, I don't think titties would improve that physique.

Good lord, there is a lot to learn. Thanks for sharing, if I would have known the answer could have been that personal I probably wouldn't have put you on the spot by asking that.

**robertwayn3** · 10-04-2016, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier

Lower sides..yes. Less Test = Less Estrogen = Less sides
Wasting a cycle...imho yes. Less Test = Less Growth

500 is a "low dose" and the converted Estrogen is simple to handle with AI. It is high enough level of test that you will see growth especially starting week4-5 when the dose gets near the peak ester level. you would be disappointd in a lower cycle dose than 500

Thanks Chicago..

**Az0342** · 10-05-2016, 12:23 PM

So I have 25 cc's of 200 mg test cyp. I originally planned on doing 1cc 2x a week for 12 weeks 400 per week. Would you suggest say 1.25 cc's 2 x a week for 10 weeks?

**Couchlock** · 10-05-2016, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Az0342

So I have 25 cc's of 200 mg test cyp. I originally planned on doing 1cc 2x a week for 12 weeks 400 per week. Would you suggest say 1.25 cc's 2 x a week for 10 weeks?

I was in the same boat wondering if the extra hundred milligrams per week would be of any benefit and I was told I was better off running it for 12 weeks at 400 milligrams per week

**Sehdee** · 10-07-2016, 01:08 PM

Out of curiosity , did they remove the entire gland? From what i understand , you need to have some tissue in your body to support your nips , so you don't have inverted nips after surgery.

**DocToxin8** · 10-07-2016, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sehdee

Out of curiosity , did they remove the entire gland? From what i understand , you need to have some tissue in your body to support your nips , so you don't have inverted nips after surgery.

Oh, I think they removed the lot of it.
Funny thing was, since I was young and reckless I went ahead and trained pecs the day after the surgery, and when I got home after I saw what a C cup would look like on me. There was my pecs, and then about a B or C cup in the middle of the pecs. I just stuck a 21G needle in between the stitches and that solved that. (The surgery wasn't the newer "going in from the armpit laporascopic tech", it was going straight from the nipple to the breast tissue old school tech)

I'm so angry I didn't take any pictures of how my little titties looked,
(They were just blood filled sacs though,
Before the op you couldn't see any signs of gyno, but I felt a small lump under the nips)
they were a real head turner (that one day) I assure you.

So the surgery was somewhat more crude than done nowadays, but the scar is inside the nipple, thus you can't see it unless I point it out.

Now, I know I'm bragging a somewhat here, but seriously don't be as stupid as I was. I was very lucky to not get any complications.
But gyno surgery as a preventive measure, that ain't dumb IMO.