Pros and Cons - Tell us yours

**newhype** · 10-01-2016, 03:14 AM

Thought it would be a good idea, for educational purposes, if everyone could share their good and bad experiences, both mental/physical of taking gear.

**marcus300** · 10-01-2016, 04:28 AM

There's more on either side but off the top of my head

Pros
build muscle faster
repair quicker
feel invincible
stronger
more aggression in the gym
easily reach your goals
high sex drive
bigger
latex feels nice

cons
Early shut down of my testosterone
give blood every 12 weeks
TRT at a early age, injecting for the rest of my life
emotional battle getting trt and also dialled in correctly
going through low T is pure hell
Enlarged heart
other enlarge internal organs
constant battle staying off cycle
sex drive swings
losing size/water plays games with your head
restarting your HPTA
emotional battle when dropping all the hormones (coming off cycle)
constant need to wear gas mask's

**Macce95** · 10-01-2016, 06:29 AM

marcus300, can i ask why u need to wear a gas mask all the time?
and what u mean by trt at early age, u started to young? Sorry im not so well known about this stuffs.

**AR's King Silabolin** · 10-01-2016, 07:12 AM

Wanna add easier to get one nigth stands on the pros side.

And more difficult to keep'em on the cons side

**newhype** · 10-01-2016, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

There's more on either side but off the top of my head

cons
Early shut down of my testosterone
give blood every 12 weeks
TRT at a early age, injecting for the rest of my life
emotional battle getting trt and also dialled in correctly
going through low T is pure hell
Enlarged heart
other enlarge internal organs
constant battle staying off cycle
sex drive swings
losing size/water plays games with your head
restarting your HPTA
emotional battle when dropping all the hormones (coming off cycle)
constant need to wear gas mask's

- Why early shut down, did PCT not work?
- Engaged heart/organs. This is compound specific though right?
- is this (constant battle staying off cycle) related to this losing size/water plays games with your head?
- How bad would you say the emotional battles are when your hormones drop post cycle?

Thanks for your reply

**DocToxin8** · 10-01-2016, 08:08 AM

Seriously folks, early TRT and constant battle to not use AAS,
if you don't understand why these can be problems you've either not done a cycle yet, or have been very cautious in which case I'm proud of you all!

And the need to wear gas masks should be obvious for even the most inexperienced!

**marcus300** · 10-01-2016, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Macce95

marcus300, can i ask why u need to wear a gas mask all the time?
and what u mean by trt at early age, u started to young? Sorry im not so well known about this stuffs.

Gas mask = obvious

trt at an early age = shutting down your natural testosterone over and over again and trying to restart it will have a negative impact on your natural test no matter what age, is this written in stone it all depends on the individual but the cases are high for steroid users to start using trt early than they would of if they didn't do aas.

With every cycle you will most probably produce less and less natural testosterone off cycle, and if you started cycling at a young age ie under 24yrs before your HPTA has fully developed than your up against all this sooner than most IMHO.

**Macce95** · 10-01-2016, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Gas mask = obvious

trt at an early age = shutting down your natural testosterone over and over again and trying to restart it will have a negative impact on your natural test no matter what age, is this written in stone it all depends on the individual but the cases are high for steroid users to start using trt early than they would of if they didn't do aas.

With every cycle you will most probably produce less and less natural testosterone off cycle, and if you started cycling at a young age ie under 24yrs before your HPTA has fully developed than your up against all this sooner than most IMHO.

Allright, thanks for reply!

**marcus300** · 10-01-2016, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by newhype

- Why early shut down, did PCT not work?
- Engaged heart/organs. This is compound specific though right?
- is this (constant battle staying off cycle) related to this losing size/water plays games with your head?
- How bad would you say the emotional battles are when your hormones drop post cycle?

Thanks for your reply

Same answer as ive just written, pct isn't a definite to regain full function of your natural test numbers.
trt at an early age = shutting down your natural testosterone over and over again and trying to restart it will have a negative impact on your natural test no matter what age, is this written in stone it all depends on the individual but the cases are high for steroid users to start using trt early than they would of if they didn't do aas.
With every cycle you will most probably produce less and less natural testosterone off cycle, and if you started cycling at a young age ie under 24yrs before your HPTA has fully developed than your up against all this sooner than most IMHO.

Enlarged organs is something I am going through now, I think its related to long term use and also hgh. Ive been training for over 30 yrs.

I can control the battle for staying off cycle, ive not been on for over 2yrs and kept a serious amount of muscle, but it is a battle for many bodybuilders as you will find out if you follow this path and circle of what many do which is cycle come off and cycle again due to losing most of the gains, this is because they don't know how to keep gains which is more of a problem imho

Before trt and I was doing pct after cycle the emotional drop off was bad for me, I really struggled because I was such a good responder on gear and size was amazing the drop off and feeling off cycle was a battle, it was hard but not something I couldn't handle.

**marcus300** · 10-01-2016, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

Seriously folks, early TRT and constant battle to not use AAS,
if you don't understand why these can be problems you've either not done a cycle yet, or have been very cautious in which case I'm proud of you all!

And the need to wear gas masks should be obvious for even the most inexperienced!

He understands

**DocToxin8** · 10-01-2016, 08:54 AM

It's not only the risk of shutting down your test production that increases the risk for TRT, (but it's the main reason)
You also get less sensitive to test when used to larger doses.

250mg test e every 10 days for me is about the lowest I can go,
even then I don't feel truly well. (Unless it's during a wash out period with tons of test allready in my system)

I'm nearing 10 years straight now, with some months break now and then.
I think I lost the battle against cycling.

**DocToxin8** · 10-01-2016, 08:57 AM

But luckily I've still managed to avoid wearing a gas mask all the time though,
So there's that.

**Mr.BB** · 10-01-2016, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

It's not only the risk of shutting down your test production that increases the risk for TRT, (but it's the main reason)
You also get less sensitive to test when used to larger doses.

250mg test e every 10 days for me is about the lowest I can go,
even then I don't feel truly well. (Unless it's during a wash out period with tons of test allready in my system)

This is not true.

Its probably all in your head because you get paranoid of losing muscle.

Even if you suffer this symptoms its not really something you should brag about, less experienced guys reading this will take your words for granted making them use more than what they need and for longer, creating health problems. You taking health risks is your own business, but promoting bad steroid practices is not something you will get away in this forum (at least while i'm here).

**Obs** · 10-01-2016, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

This is not true.

Its probably all in your head because you get paranoid of losing muscle.

Even if you suffer this symptoms its not really something you should brag about, less experienced guys reading this will take your words for granted making them use more than what they need and for longer, creating health problems. You taking health risks is your own business, but promoting bad steroid practices is not something you will get away in this forum (at least while i'm here).

It's not magic kids it comes at a cost. My brother was in a motorcycle wreck and was set to die of progressive neuropathy (no helmet) I ceased cycling and lifting immediately because i had no tIme or eXtra money. I went from 215 to about 160. I lived in a motel and drank myself to sleep every night and wanted to die. An angel met me one night at a bar and changed that. We had a bunch of kids and then the bitch left me. 8 years later I have the time and money and knowledge. It's damn good to be back but I realize now fully what the cost can be in ways you never saw coming. I assure you the juice didn't beat my liver as hard as the binge drinking depression. Do not overdo it! Beware of what can happen!

**DocToxin8** · 10-01-2016, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

This is not true.

Its probably all in your head because you get paranoid of losing muscle.

Even if you suffer this symptoms its not really something you should brag about, less experienced guys reading this will take your words for granted making them use more than what they need and for longer, creating health problems. You taking health risks is your own business, but promoting bad steroid practices is not something you will get away in this forum (at least while i'm here).

I'm absolutely no ideal to follow, quite the opposite.
I can see that it might have come of as bragging, but really its a warning to everyone thinking of doing roids;
are you prepared to risk a psychological addiction to AAS,
and you will increase dosages as time goes by.

My statement is true and its not true,
(Truth is kinda fluid when it comes to psychology,
let's just call it a hypothesis,
one that I always thought was false,
but I'm not talking about interaction between T and AR)
I based it on how I FEEL during 250mg test e pr 10 days, or on low dosages,
and i base it on what an experienced endocrinologist told me.
(I was actually suprised as I didnt think it was true either)

But if anyone here has the same sensitivity to test after having used to, say 500mg a week (thats a high dose compared to TRT),
as they did when they first started using AAS then good for them.
I'm not saying the sensitivity doesnt increase again when using normal TRT amounts,
but for a while, when jumping from 500mg a week, to 250mg every 2 to 3 weeks,
you'll feel both a psychological lack of test,
and you're body will excrete it faster due to very low SHBG (unless its not low).

At least thats what I was told by a TRT doc, he might be wrong though.

If this is promoting bad practices and "not something i'll get away with"
then ban me now BB before I poison this forum with anecdotal stories and theoretical discussions.

Oh, and I thought that was a very good reason not to use large doses of test/AAS for long periods of time,
not the opposite.

**Mr.BB** · 10-01-2016, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

I'm not saying the sensitivity doesnt increase again when using normal TRT amounts,
but for a while, when jumping from 500mg a week, to 250mg every 2 to 3 weeks,
you'll feel both a psychological lack of test,
and you're body will excrete it faster due to very low SHBG (unless its not low).

Everybody will feel different when finnishing a cycle or blast, its only normal to feel the reduction of androgens. Sometimes it actually feels good to go back to TRT dosages, 250mgs per week is not a trt dosage.
One of your mistakes is to do 250mg every 2-3 weeks, very hard to feel good on that protocol. Test E or cyp needs to be injected at least once a week, ideally twice a week. Did not expect such poor protocol from somebody with your experience.

If your endo said that thing about faster excreting he is talking out of his ass, doesnt surprise me as most know little about sex hormones, diabetes is their main subject.

Of course you may feel psychological issues, my point is not on Psychological level. Your body doesnt need more androgens to have normal functions after using 500mgs, or 2g, 100mg per week will be completely enough before and after high dosage usage.

**DocToxin8** · 10-01-2016, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Everybody will feel different when finnishing a cycle or blast, its only normal to feel the reduction of androgens. Sometimes it actually feels good to go back to TRT dosages, 250mgs per week is not a trt dosage.
One of your mistakes is to do 250mg every 2-3 weeks, very hard to feel good on that protocol. Test E or cyp needs to be injected at least once a week, ideally twice a week. Did not expect such poor protocol from somebody with your experience.

If your endo said that thing about faster excreting he is talking out of his ass, doesnt surprise me as most know little about sex hormones, diabetes is their main subject.

Of course you may feel psychological issues, my point is not on Psychological level. Your body doesnt need more androgens to have normal functions after using 500mgs, or 2g, 100mg per week will be completely enough before and after high dosage usage.

I agree with your thinking, and always believed it so.
The dosing protocol is most likely the issue yes, as smaller doses more often works much better.
(The dosing protocol was a bad example though,
and I can agree that might be the whole explanation why 10days between test e injections are the limit for me.)
So I'll retract or explain my statement a little better;
I think it's gonna be very difficult to build more muscle or even keep the size one attains when getting over a certain level with TRT dosages. Not saying it's impossible though.

What got me confused about the issue, was that this TRT doc said he would treat bodybuilders with TRT with an example like this;
(after PCT options haven't led anywhere)
He said he would start with Nebido injections first at a more frequent rate,
then over time increasing the interval between Nebido injections until a lower dose could be set up.
He also said older guys usually needed more than younger guys.
And that blood tests showing total T and free T would be misleading due to the very low levels of SHBG.
(He also said one "lost sensitivity", but in what regard wasn't mentioned)

I also agree with the statement that it actually feels nice to go back to lower doses (I'm not at TRT doses, but nearer them) at times.
So I was kinda rash in my statement, I based it more on what the TRT doc said than my own experience.

It's always good to be wrong sometimes, that's when you really learn.
As of now I'll say it's all about proper dosing protocol, and of one were to use test.prop f.ex, then the issue might not arise.
(I'm using test.prop as an example due to frequent dosing being obvious,
Ofcourse the same would apply to all esters)

I'm still not so sure about being able to keep freakish size on regular TRT doses though, my experience is that some does and some doesn't.
(The majority seem to lose, but we all know this can be due to other (usual) factors)
Not saying I got freakish size, I'm don't, but will perhaps one day go for it.

**DocToxin8** · 10-01-2016, 11:59 PM

Btw. I would never run test e a the interval I used as an example,
it just the dosing protocol listed in every docs medicine handbook.

The reason I've done such lousy attempts to follow actual TRT dosages when cruising also has to do with the fact that I always want to cruise on Pharma grade gear, and Pharma gear isn't available in vials here, only amps.
Also, 250mg pr 10 days seems to me to cause no real damage,
when doing such a dose my HDL will be normal
(It's often within the reference range with doses well over that also)
and i have no sides on bloodwork except for a fucked HPTA.

**DocToxin8** · 10-02-2016, 12:14 AM

So the only remaining issue;
Are you able to keep all your mass, at any level, with TRT dosages?

**marcus300** · 10-02-2016, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

So the only remaining issue;
Are you able to keep all your mass, at any level, with TRT dosages?

That's a good question which would be a great debate but it needs to be its own thread so we can get our teeth into such a subject.

This thread is about YOUR pro's and con's of using

**DocToxin8** · 10-02-2016, 05:37 AM

Pro;
Love the feeling and lifestyle

Con:
Psychological addiction, though if I actually wanted to quit, it might not apply

Worry about health issues; luckily no issues have arisen,
Except one time, where i think that if it was gear related, it was due to contaminated gear.

That's what's comes to mind at least.

**KINGKONG** · 10-02-2016, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

There's more on either side but off the top of my head

Pros
build muscle faster
repair quicker
feel invincible
stronger
more aggression in the gym
easily reach your goals
high sex drive
bigger
latex feels nice

cons
Early shut down of my testosterone
give blood every 12 weeks
TRT at a early age, injecting for the rest of my life
emotional battle getting trt and also dialled in correctly
going through low T is pure hell
Enlarged heart
other enlarge internal organs
constant battle staying off cycle
sex drive swings
losing size/water plays games with your head
restarting your HPTA
emotional battle when dropping all the hormones (coming off cycle)
constant need to wear gas mask's

This pretty much sums it up!I love being on so much seems like when iam off all I do is think about when iam getting back on..I do take breaks it's been years since I've used and that's been partially for reasons outta my control..I've thought about it a lot though and recently as the time grows near I've been taking a lot of time to plan..it's fun for me..can't wait to feel those androgens flow through my body and feel the pumps in my muscles..omg!!