Can you keep your size with physiologic T levels?

[DocToxin8]

When using AAS many eventually end up on TRT, or choose to cruise on a low dose instead of going through PCT. (which will increase the chance of needing TRT later anyways)
Those who do not need TRT will have low T levels at some points when they finish a cycle, but after that they'll have physiologic T levels, which TRT aim for.

If you discount the muscle lost during PCT when T levels aren't normal (and have SERMs in your system, which may or may not be optimal for growth)
or start the clock when back on a TRT regimen,
Is it possible to keep all the muscle one gains with AAS use?

Another question in the same venue;
Can a bodybuilder keep his size on TRT or with physiologic T levels?

The standard answers;
"That is up to your genetics"
Or
"That will be determined if one is larger than ones genetics permits"
aren't really helping.
They don't tell us much, and it's no way to know ones genetic potential.

What are you're thoughts on this, your experience, and what solutions are there if it's not possible?

[Mr.BB]

My opinion, yes you can keep size with proper nutrition, training and life style.

But you wont have the same hardness and definition, and if you stay years without blasting the size will slowly go too.

[KINGKONG]

My opinion, yes you can keep size with proper nutrition, training and life style.

But you wont have the same hardness and definition, and if you stay years without blasting the size will slowly go too.

I tend to agree with Mr.BB it's not the size that will go away quickly it's the hard look and it will eventually fade away without a blast..how often I don't know maybe a few 6 week blast a year would be sufficient with proper training and nutrition..iam about to see my diet is getting nailed in right now iam gonna get to a certain body fat (sub 10:/ then prime then blast then it's trt forever at 36 turning 37 this month it's about that time anyways..I will make a log most likely so we will see..the goal is maintaining overall good health,strength and size over time..

[Vash the Stampede]

Short answer, no you can't maintain ALL your muscle tissue.

Long answer, you sure as hell can keep most of it! With a serious training program, adequate nutrition and recovery, you could definitely maintain and keep most of your hard earned muscle tissue.

[DocToxin8]

Vash; that wasn't a very long answer.

Ok, other than the obvious diet/nutrition and training/recovery aspect,
are there any measures that can be taken apart from AAS use?
(In your opinion, needn't be a proven method,
I'm sure we can speculate the hell out it anyway)

[Vash the Stampede]

OK when you understand what AAS does for your body on a physiological level, you will see how to optimize your results post cycle. AAS simply increase anabolism. What you do with training, nutrition and recovery is up to you.

Building and maintaining muscle tissue off cycle is no different than on cycle. All the same basic principles apply. There is no magic pill or secret techniques to improve results post cycle.

The only thing I can think of is pharma grade HGH. Its super expensive and not easy to get a hold of, but its best thing besides AAS to maintain muscle tissue.

[DocToxin8]

I'm not so sure you can say AAS simply does anything though.

Or would you say;
Injected testosterone will bind to transport proteins like albumin and SHBG, with a small portion unbound in the blood, is transported to the cell, where the AR will transport it to the nucleus, where it will interact with androgen response elements/ARE to regulate gene transcription, which in turn increases protein synthesis.
Thus AAS "simply" increase protein synthesis, (and inhibits degradation),
"simply" creating an anabolic environment.

And all AAS turn on the same genes?

Then there's the cell membrane mediated effects, the effects on neurological pathways like monoamine oxidase, DA turnover, to name a few.

Let's not forget interaction with the corticosteroids, ER (trough aromatization or otherwise), the progesterone receptor, etc.

It's effects on insulin sensitivity, local IGF production, systemic IGF production...

I think I know a thing or two about AAS,
but I still make mistakes, logical short circuits, etc.

Still, your point isn't invalid, but you know for certain that there isn't a magic pill? I don't. Although I think it's highly unlikely.

But to stop being a dick about it, yes, the same basic principles apply.

[DocToxin8]

Oh, and I was a little quick to say measures other than AAS.
Let's rather say, other than increasing T by taking T (by injection, oral, transdermal or injecting it thru the eye directly into the brain and such)

[DocToxin8]

@VashTS; why only Pharma grade hgh tough?

[Vash the Stampede]

If you don't get HGH from a pharmacy, its probably fake. Because of the high price and high demand, many Chinese fakes are flooding the market.

There are many other vets on the forum that will agree with this. When you do get real pharmaceutical HGH, the results are worth the price.

[Livinlean]

I think it comes down to how far above your genetic potential you are. If you're 5'8 and 200 it'll be much easier to keep your gains versus being 260.

Most EX-BBs I've talked to sit in the 210-220 range with TRT dose instead of 260+ while blasting cruising. Muscle mass can def be kept with proper training and nutrition but you can't expect to look like a tank.

[DocToxin8]

Yeah, i definitely also think that one could probably make a statistical curve over amount of muscle mass and amount of loss with physiologic T levels.

I also think that the bigger one gets, the bigger on will be on physio T levels as well, at least for a long amount time. Since muscles grow by increasing cell nuclei by recruiting sattelite cells, and studies have shown that the increase in nuclei seem to be permanent, they're still there even when the muscle have shrinked. Thus the cell is able to increase it protein synthesis faster, having more nuclei to send mRNA to the ribosomes. So I think this muscle memory effect also will mean that the muscle can be kept at a higher amount with mechanical stimuli.

I'm thinking about solutions that doesn't impair health, even promote it, which would allow one to keep a greater degree.

Like we know hgh would help, could we increase the natural secretion.
There's peptides for this, but I have no personal experience with them and don't know their health effect either.
DA-agonists should increase GH gently, so I'm wondering how indirect agonism (by enzyme inhibition in this case) like selegiline. Also interested in its supposed nootropic action. Anyone tried it?
Ok I'm tired and thinking loudly, good night!

[kelkel]

Been on Selegiline for years. Great stuff. Also know that nightly melatonin is shown to augment GH levels.