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Thread: Second Cycle after 3 years!

  1. #1
    jabawocky's Avatar
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    Second Cycle after 3 years!

    UPDATED CYCLE AT POST #12

    CURRENT STATS:
    5 years lifting
    27 years old
    5’7” 180lbs 15%BF
    Bench Press: 250lbs
    Squat: 270lbs
    Deadlifts: Never bothered to check my max, but I train this at 5x5 225lbs (bad back)

    I got a good deal for Sustanon 400mg/ml,
    so I’m planning this CYCLE:
    Week 1-10 EOD 0.4ml (160mg) about 560mg/week
    Week 12-16 40/30/20/10 Nolvadex (more in check for gyno)
    Week 13-16 75/50/25/25 Clomid
    I can acquire HCG , but as this is a light cycle I’d assume I’ll recover just fine, I'm open for advice.

    My source advised on using Provinorum (proviron sp?) + Nolva over Arimidex , because the test dosage is <750mg/week with no stacks. He can't obtain A-dex atm, so I went to other sources and they don't offer A-dex. And pharmacies charge A-dex 10x more than Proviron, demand order price they said wt-f.

    Can we have some discussion on Proviron? I know it's not an AI, but it does have that little bit of AI effects right?

    Since my first cycle was a long time ago (3 years), Test-E 500mg/week. I’m going to treat this cycle as a first; so instead of stacking it, I’m experimenting by just slightly increasing the dose to 560mg/week. I’ll only be stacking after this cycle, because this cycle might prove that I still could gain with a similar test dosage and no stacks. I know some might recommend to add D-bol and so on, but I don’t plan in jumping into conclusions: I think it's best to understand my body’s reaction to certain dosages first, before increasing it.

    Target:
    My goal is to achieve 190lbs weight at 8%BF (after PCT). I’ll roughly be eating 3000-3500 calories a day, lifting 4-5 times a week and cardio about 5 times a week, I’m assuming 8%BF is achievable without stacking Clen etc. How realistic is this goal?

    I'm open for advice. Thanks a lot!
    Last edited by jabawocky; 10-08-2016 at 10:59 PM.

  2. #2
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    Anastrozole is ideal. Just because your source does not have a supply should not require you to use whatever he has on hand.


    Everyone is different, and we have no control over your diet and training, so nobody can tell you if you will drop from 15% to 8%bf.
    My standard answer would be no.
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  3. #3
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Proviron will slightly help with estrogen side effects because it will help to lower the e2/TT+DHT ratio.

    However, proviron is not a suitable substitute for an AI, neither is proviron + nolva.

    You need either arimidex or exemestane.

    There's no need to pin sust EOD, evey 3 days or twice per week is sufficient.

    Imo you should increase your pinning time to 12 weeks.

    It would be in your best interest to use HCG from day one until 2-3 days before PCT.

    PCT start time for sust is usually 18 days after last pin but Imo two weeks is fine.

    You should begin taking nolva and clomid at the same time and I think you'd only benefit from taking the nolva for an extra 2 weeks (6 in total).

    Also, not to be a Debbie Downer but your goal of going from 180 15% to 190 8% in 10 weeks is unrealistic.
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  4. #4
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    I just placed in 190lbs as a higher target. How about maintaining the same weight maybe around 175lbs-180lbs at 8-10%bf? Since I can do more cardio due to better recovery.

    Diet will of course be clean everyday:
    Brown rice + Baked Chicken Breast + 1 egg white + Mixed Veges ~5 to 6 times a day
    And my shakes.
    Sometimes I will blend up my meals because I get sick of eating the same thing every single day, then swallow it..

  5. #5
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    I'm pretty sure pinning Sustanon E2D or E3D is okay for sustanon, although most will disagree. But I wanna take advantage over the shorter ester, hence EOD. The thing I'm concerned about is 160mg/pin enough?

    I'll double check with my source for the AI, if it can't be acquired I'll just use Proviron + Nolvadex , I'll report my progress here, could be helpful for others in future.

    But I will try to get Adex, if I do I might be tempted to add D-Bol into the cycle..

  6. #6
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabawocky View Post
    I just placed in 190lbs as a higher target. How about maintaining the same weight maybe around 175lbs-180lbs at 8-10%bf? Since I can do more cardio due to better recovery.

    Diet will of course be clean everyday:
    Brown rice + Baked Chicken Breast + 1 egg white + Mixed Veges ~5 to 6 times a day
    And my shakes.
    Sometimes I will blend up my meals because I get sick of eating the same thing every single day, then swallow it..
    Don't get the wrong impression by my last post, goals are very important in evey aspect of life.

    What's even more important than long term goals are short term goals. Short term goals are like stepping stones in route to the big picture while helping to keep you motivated and in a positive mindset.

    By all means be your own person but using a second cycle to help drop 5-7% bf seems like a waste in my view.

    Losing weight isn't much easier on cycle.

    Why not begin a natty cut while getting all your gear in hand, then when you hit single digits jump on the sust and pack on some slabs of new tissue?

  7. #7
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    Proviron is useless for estrogen control.

    But is good for going bald if that's the look you are looking for!

  8. #8
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabawocky View Post
    I'm pretty sure pinning Sustanon E2D or E3D is okay for sustanon, although most will disagree. But I wanna take advantage over the shorter ester, hence EOD. The thing I'm concerned about is 160mg/pin enough?

    I'll double check with my source for the AI, if it can't be acquired I'll just use Proviron + Nolvadex , I'll report my progress here, could be helpful for others in future.

    But I will try to get Adex, if I do I might be tempted to add D-Bol into the cycle..
    Honestly dude you could pin sust ED if you wanted to but it doesn't mean it makes anything better. Sust was designed to be taken 1-2 times a week or 250mg even 3 weeks by TRT patients.

    I really can't stress this enough, proviron + nolva is not a suitable replacement for an aromatase inhibitor.

    You want to use dbol on a cut?
    Last edited by numbere; 10-06-2016 at 10:03 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    Don't get the wrong impression by my last post, goals are very important in evey aspect of life.

    What's even more important than long term goals are short term goals. Short term goals are like stepping stones in route to the big picture while helping to keep you motivated and in a positive mindset.

    By all means be your own person but using a second cycle to help drop 5-7% bf seems like a waste in my view.

    Losing weight isn't much easier on cycle.

    Why not begin a natty cut while getting all your gear in hand, then when you hit single digits jump on the sust and pack on some slabs of new tissue?
    No worries..

    Dropping bf% is my goal while building significant muscle fast.
    Hmmm, I would assume most will start a cycle to gain more weight.

    But I'm actually planning something like this:
    Current target: 175-180lbs 8-10bf%
    Next: 183lbs 8-10bf%
    Next: 185lbs 9bf%
    Next: 188lbs 8bf%
    Next: 190lbs 7bf%

    I assume most would prefer to bulk to 225lbs then cut to 180lbs. But I've seen my friend adding 2-4lbs weight while -1bf% for each cycle he's done, too bad he moved out of town recently. He's currently about 5'8" 190lbs 5-6bf% now, the last time he was above 10bf% was like 4 years ago. Before he started gear he was about 170lbs 13-15bf%. We all know he's been juicing but he's not open to share and admit it, so I've got to turn to the forums..

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    I really can't stress this enough, proviron + nolva is not a suitable replacement for an aromatase inhibitor.
    You want to use dbol on a cut?
    I know D-bol is meant for bulking, but it's tempting to ditch the cut and go for the bulk if I can get the AI. But for now AI seems out of reach, that's why I'm opting for Sust only and trying to make a cut, plus it fits my initial goal of cutting..

    Btw, I won't be a jumping into this cycle anytime soon, I'll take the advice. I will get the AI, I must. Plus being paranoid of growing tits through the whole cycle can be the worst mental torture ever..
    Last edited by jabawocky; 10-06-2016 at 10:57 AM.

  11. #11
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabawocky View Post
    I know D-bol is meant for bulking, but it's tempting to ditch the cut and go for the bulk if I can get the AI. But for now AI seems out of reach, that's why I'm opting for Sust only and trying to make a cut, plus it fits my initial goal of cutting..

    Btw, I won't be a jumping into this cycle anytime soon, I'll take the advice. I will get the AI, I must. Plus being paranoid of growing tits through the whole cycle can be the worst mental torture ever..
    Gyno should be the least of your worries if you cycle without an AI.

    High e2 is horrible for your cardiovascular system.

    If you cycle without an AI than you will help perpetuate media made stereotype about steroid destroying your health.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for all the replies guys, I went on a mission calling and driving around town to all pharmacies and medical centres. Finally got Arimidex !
    So I'm gonna ditch the previous cycle (cutting) and go on a bulk.

    UPDATED CYCLE:
    Week 1-4 Dianabol 30mg ED
    Week 1-10 2 days in between shots (240mg/shot)
    Week 1-12 Adex 0.25mg/day or 0.5mg EOD tapered down after last shot to PCT
    Week 12 Nolvadex 20mg/day for 5-6 weeks
    Week 12 Clomid 50mg/day for 4 weeks

    Target:
    After PCT I do hope to be roughly 180-183lbs at 10-12bf%, I know trying to lower my bf% contradicts a bulk cycle but it may still be possible. If I fail to lower my bf% I will bulk for another 4 months naturally before I start another cycle with compounds meant for cutting. I will keep HCG for the next cycle, which may have compounds that are harder to recover from. For now, I'll prolong my Nolva PCT from 4 weeks to 5-6 weeks this cycle.
    Last edited by jabawocky; 10-13-2016 at 12:31 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabawocky View Post
    UPDATED CYCLE:
    Week 1-4 Dianabol 30mg ED
    Week 1-10 E2D 240mg/shot
    Week 6-10 Anavar (dosing?)
    Week 1-12 Adex 0.25mg/day or 0.5mg EOD tapered down after last shot to PCT
    Week 12 Nolvadex 20mg/day for 5-6 weeks
    Week 12 Clomid 50mg/day for 4 weeks
    I couldn't find much info online regarding this.
    If I add Anavar towards to the end of the cycle, what say you guys? Say around week 6 or 7, to week 10.
    Would this be of any use in cutting? or does D-bol as a kick-start void this due to water retention?

  14. #14
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    You will not add muscle mass without a proper diet.In fact you may lose some good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabawocky View Post
    Thanks for all the replies guys, I went on a mission calling and driving around town to all pharmacies and medical centres. Finally got Arimidex !
    So I'm gonna ditch the previous cycle (cutting) and go on a bulk.

    UPDATED CYCLE:
    Week 1-4 Dianabol 30mg ED
    Week 1-10 E2D 240mg/shot
    Week 1-12 Adex 0.25mg/day or 0.5mg EOD tapered down after last shot to PCT
    Week 12 Nolvadex 20mg/day for 5-6 weeks
    Week 12 Clomid 50mg/day for 4 weeks

    Target:
    After PCT I do hope to be roughly 180-183lbs at 10-12bf%, I know trying to lower my bf% contradicts a bulk cycle but it may still be possible. If I fail to lower my bf% I will bulk for another 4 months naturally before I start another cycle with compounds meant for cutting. I will keep HCG for the next cycle, which may have compounds that are harder to recover from. For now, I'll prolong my Nolva PCT from 4 weeks to 5-6 weeks this cycle.
    You gonna pin 840mg/wk of Sus + Dbol kicker? You're gonna gain about 15lbs to 20lbs the first 4 weeks and you're gonna look like a doughboy. Lean? You can throw that out the window for the first month or two. You need to really tighten up on your diet to counter all the water retention from the dbol. If I were you, I'd just run sus only cycle for 12 weeks, wait, then PCT. Done. Keep it simple. You got a lot of things going into your body with this cycle. You also need Nolvadex for your PCT.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by songdog View Post
    You will not add muscle mass without a proper diet.In fact you may lose some good luck.
    Thanks! I'm pretty sure I know diet, I know I don't have the best build, but I think my avatar: 173lbs (1 1/2 months ago) pretty much shows I know about diet. Looks like a solid base to start another cycle after 3 years.
    My current stat: 57 180lbs

    ~based on the sticky: I'll give you, what I believe is a fair starting weight for your height. Again, this is not set in stone, however, it will serve you better and help you reach a naturally developed goal. 5'6" to 5'7" tall - 165 to 175 lbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    You gonna pin 840mg/wk of Sus + Dbol kicker? You're gonna gain about 15lbs to 20lbs the first 4 weeks and you're gonna look like a doughboy. Lean? You can throw that out the window for the first month or two. You need to really tighten up on your diet to counter all the water retention from the dbol. If I were you, I'd just run sus only cycle for 12 weeks, wait, then PCT. Done. Keep it simple. You got a lot of things going into your body with this cycle. You also need Nolvadex for your PCT.
    Thanks!
    240mg E2D (Mon, Thurs, Sunday, Wed, Sat), only 5 shots in 2 weeks, isn't that only 1200mg? 600mg per week, or does dbol counts as a test dose?
    Just 2 steroids for this cycle, dbol and sustanon . I only asked about anavar & proviron to educate myself through opinions, because all the stuff I've read online contradicts one another, users that have used the items might provide better insight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabawocky
    Thanks! I'm pretty sure I know diet, I know I don't have the best build, but I think my avatar: 173lbs (1 1/2 months ago) pretty much shows I know about diet. Looks like a solid base to start another cycle after 3 years. My current stat: 57 180lbs ~based on the sticky: I'll give you, what I believe is a fair starting weight for your height. Again, this is not set in stone, however, it will serve you better and help you reach a naturally developed goal. 5'6" to 5'7" tall - 165 to 175 lbs. Thanks! 240mg E2D (Mon, Thurs, Sunday, Wed, Sat), only 5 shots in 2 weeks, isn't that only 1200mg? 600mg per week, or does dbol counts as a test dose? Just 2 steroids for this cycle, dbol and sustanon. I only asked about anavar & proviron to educate myself through opinions, because all the stuff I've read online contradicts one another, users that have used the items might provide better insight.
    240 E2D equals 120 ED equals 840mg a week.
    You have no need to run that much test at your size.
    500mg a week would be fine.

  18. #18
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    Well, i got that mixed up lol.. I assumed E2D meant 2 days in between shots, haha.. thanks for the info, surely got a number of people confused..
    Last edited by jabawocky; 10-21-2016 at 08:36 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabawocky View Post
    UPDATED CYCLE:
    Week 1-4 Dianabol 30mg ED
    Week 1-10 2 days in between shots (240mg/shot)
    Week 1-12 Adex 0.5mg EOD tapered down after last shot to PCT
    Week 12 Nolvadex 20mg/day for 5-6 weeks
    Week 12 Clomid 50mg/day for 4 weeks
    Started this cycle early this week, D-Bol has kicked in, I can now push all my reps to 12 from the previous 8.

    I do have one problem tho, is it okay take Adex at 1mg twice a week (monday/wednesday)? It comes in the form of a capsule, and its a chore to open up the capsule and dividing the powder inside into 0.5mg dosages.

  20. #20
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    I wouldnt run arimidex like that

    0.25 eod seems to be the more popular choice, i personaly take 0.5mg eod

    You need to take it eod due to its half life

    Not to pick at you, but you should have looked into that before starting and got a tablet form of arimidex in order to have the ability to split the dose for use of bodybuilding.

    I understand you drove eveywhere and managed to get some arimidex, but you have a difficult form to dose, arimidex isnt invented for bodybuilding, thats why it only comes in 1mg form

    Try to find some tablet form ASAP you dont want to low or to high of an E2 level. Taking 1mg of arimidex every 3.5 days isnt a good idea
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabawocky View Post
    Started this cycle early this week, D-Bol has kicked in, I can now push all my reps to 12 from the previous 8.

    I do have one problem tho, is it okay take Adex at 1mg twice a week (monday/wednesday)? It comes in the form of a capsule, and its a chore to open up the capsule and dividing the powder inside into 0.5mg dosages.
    Just open up the capsule - dump it out and put into 4 equal piles(I know they won't be totally equal but it won't matter - get it as close as Possibe) that'll be fine...

    And if your running 840mgs of Sust I'm sure your gonna need .5mgs eod then get mid cycle bw to make any necessary adjustments

    PCT
    CLOMID - 75/50/50/50
    Nolva - 40/40/20/20(if you want to run nolva 2wks longer then go 10/10) not necessary imho but if Won't hurt either!
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    Hey Nach

    Splitting the powder up, can one just dump the powder into a small glass of water and stir and drink? Will it absorb and release in the body the same? Something ive always been curious about (i guess if the user did this they would have to make sure no powder was stuck around the edges of the glass)

    Or we could just snort it?
    Last edited by TheTaxMan; 10-21-2016 at 11:16 AM.

  23. #23
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaxMan View Post
    Splitting the powder up, can one just dump the powder into a small glass and stir and drink? Will it absorb and release in the body the same? Something ive always been curious about (i guess if the user did this they would have to make sure no powder was stuck around the edges of the glass)
    Dex is only moderately soluble in warm water.

    I believe dex will only suspend at 0.5mg/ml in water at 80F.

    In order correctly to suspend dex you need to use either alcohol or PEG.

    If you're splitting tabs or capsules then your best bet is to put it directly in your mouth so that you don't lose any compound.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaxMan View Post
    Hey Nach

    Splitting the powder up, can one just dump the powder into a small glass of water and stir and drink? Will it absorb and release in the body the same? Something ive always been curious about (i guess if the user did this they would have to make sure no powder was stuck around the edges of the glass)

    Or we could just snort it?
    Like Numbere stated I've always put it directly in my mouth(98.6 F) as opposed to warm water etc... for reasons he listed

    How u been Tax?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    Just open up the capsule - dump it out and put into 4 equal piles(I know they won't be totally equal but it won't matter - get it as close as Possibe) that'll be fine...

    And if your running 840mgs of Sust I'm sure your gonna need .5mgs eod then get mid cycle bw to make any necessary adjustments

    PCT
    CLOMID - 75/50/50/50
    Nolva - 40/40/20/20(if you want to run nolva 2wks longer then go 10/10) not necessary imho but if Won't hurt either!
    Thanks for the replies guys!
    I'm currently taking .5mg eod, half a cap each time.
    I'm only taking about 560mg of sust a week, i thought e2d meant 2 days in between shots (240mg/shot), english is not 1st language.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    Like Numbere stated I've always put it directly in my mouth(98.6 F) as opposed to warm water etc... for reasons he listed

    How u been Tax?
    Very well thanks mate, started my own business 6 months ago and its gone 100% better than predicted, ive just found meal prep a bit tough during its take off, working all day and then gym and then family time the last thing i could be bothered to do on a night is sort meals out so diet got a bit sloppy.

    Finding a bit more time and routines coming back now that things are settling down

    Sorry for the hijack OP
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  27. #27
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    Just doing this so new comers can look through my cycle for research
    Week 3 log
    D-Bol kicked in on week 2, all my lifts went up 10lbs + more reps, must be placebo.
    Currently in week 3, lifts were up 15lbs + more reps, must be legit. Adding 5-10lbs to my lifts per week would be great.
    Body-weight up by 5lbs with not much visible water retention.

    PIP happened on and off for 2 weeks, currently on week 3 and absolutely no PIP.
    Running Adex .5mg EOD, but the gyno paranoia is still killing me, little itch on my chest and I'll snap and start checking my nipples lol.

  28. #28
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    All looks good. Good luck with the cycle brah

  29. #29
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    Entering week 6, I took dbol for 4 weeks + 3 days. Lifts and reps are all up. Feels good!
    Weight was up 16lbs, still eating the same, lost about 2lbs on the scale today.

    Lifting 4 times a week + 2 days cardio. dbol didnt really effect my cardio.
    Stopping all cardio on week 6 and increasing lifting to 5 days a week.
    Now: (Up/Back Rest Up/Legs/Arms) never had a dedicated arms day, it'll usually be on leg days but I just do it in between leg sets to kill time. But it's staring to lag behind.

  30. #30
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    Hey op take the advice above and get a ai before you start. And take my advice mate. don't fvcking ever let anyone tell you your goals are unrealistic. Yea you might not reach them but if you set linits on your self you will only achieve your minimum potential.

    Ok mate? Reach for the fvcking stars. My goal is to hit a 300kg squat. Then when ever i do that i will do a 400kg squat then a 500kg squat. My body might never achieve this but my mind wont stop trying untill i met my maker.
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