Estrogens issue: should i switch to Adex and use Nolva ?

Hello guys, i'm at my 6th week of cycling. My gear is 500mg/week of Deca and Test Enant. 250mg/week. I'm using Aromasin at 25mg/ED with 12.5mg every 9 hours. I do blood work every week to check primarily my HCT and E2 and my last BW showed E2 too much high ( 76pg/ml ). I'm detecting strange sides on my skin like big pimple in different area; today i have seen one near my nipple that underskin seems to be "full" on touch. Below there's a picture to show it even it's not too much visible but if you with careful there's a reddish area around the nipple and it's a bit painful at touch. I guess it's related to high E2 and maybe it could a gyno simptoms onset. My BF is little higher respect what is suggested, around 18%. Now i'm wondering if should switch to ADEX and using for a little Nolva ( please suggest me the dosages it could be useful.. 20mg/ED ? ) or increasing Aromasin dosage to 37.5mg/ED ( i guess this is not a good idea ). Some folks tell that Aromasin is more powerful than Adex.... but i don't know if this is true.

I thought also to decrease the gear dosages lowering DECA to 300mg/Week.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thank you in advance.
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Is the stane pharma grade? Are you taking a DA? Checked prolactin?

Your Ai maybe no good.I have always used Adex myself.

With all due respect this is like the third post you've made about elevated E2 while on cycle.

Imo you're a high converter and your bf is a a bit high. North of 18% based on your previous photos.

You should switch to pharmacy grade arimidex.

It does not have sense to check prolactin if my E2 is so high.

@Numbere: in the first week, my E2 conversion was pretty light. Just with 12.5 of stane, my E2 went down around 4pg/ml. But now, i think hormones load is higher and so it's the conversion.

I buy Stane in pharmacy, it's the original from the official company ! I've a pharmacist friend who give me it without problems!

Ok, so it could be better to switch to Adex. The questions are:

1) Adex is it really more powerful than Aromasin ????

2) Should i take Nolva too, or could it enough switching to Adex ????

I've only used adex and see no reason to change it,
Aromasin should be just as good, but something seems off.
Your high BF makes it looks like you got moobs yeah,
wheter thats from this cycle or previous fat gain I don't know,
but you do have a lot of fatty tissue on your breast, indicating that you do have a little high E2.
High body fat also increases aromatization.

But in any case, why not try a switch to adex and see if it helps.
Also try to lower BF.
If you got sensitive lumps under nips that's a sign yes.

And yeah, until you got your E2 under control a SERM like nolva wouldn't hurt.

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

It does not have sense to check prolactin if my E2 is so high.

@Numbere: in the first week, my E2 conversion was pretty light. Just with 12.5 of stane, my E2 went down around 4pg/ml. But now, i think hormones load is higher and so it's the conversion.

I buy Stane in pharmacy, it's the original from the official company ! I've a pharmacist friend who give me it without problems!

Ok, so it could be better to switch to Adex. The questions are:

1) Adex is it really more powerful than Aromasin ????

2) Should i take Nolva too, or could it enough switching to Adex ????

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You're using a long ester test so it makes sense that your E2 is higher now than during week one because you test is higher. Plus stane takes at least 2 weeks to reach peak plasma concentration.

Yes dex is stronger than stane especially when running cycles with high amounts of aromatizing compounds.

Imo you shouldn't take nolva at this point. It's not a good idea to take drugs for no apparent reason. Nolva will not lower your E2.

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Originally Posted by numbere

You're using a long ester test so it makes sense that your E2 is higher now than during week one because you test is higher. Plus stane takes at least 2 weeks to reach peak plasma concentration.

Yes dex is stronger than stane especially when running cycles with high amounts of aromatizing compounds.

Imo you shouldn't take nolva at this point. It's not a good idea to take drugs for no apparent reason. Nolva will not lower your E2.

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Yes, Numbere i understand that. But i felt a little lump around my nipple on the right side; is very little and a bit reddish and it's not so painful... very mild and little but i can feel it as "something" under skin around nipple. For this matter i told about Nolva because... could it disappear at all if with Adex i'm able to keep E2 in control ?

When i talk about Nolva, i don't mean to remove AI and using just SERM... but to ADD Nolva too with ADEX ( even at lower dosages, around 10-20mg) until this disappear...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numbere

With all due respect this is like the third post you've made about elevated E2 while on cycle.

Imo you're a high converter and your bf is a a bit high. North of 18% based on your previous photos.

You should switch to pharmacy grade arimidex.

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Agreed with this. You are in the same boat as me. I'm a high converter and have to take much higher dose of AI.

Hello Slacker,
I have never used Aromasin and don't know it, but always used arimidex and I never had minimum problems of high estrogen ... Arimidex is really very powerful in this, doses 0.25 or 0.5 EOD should be sufficient in a cycle like yours.
It's strange your reaction because the Test E dosage 250 mg / week is really very low ... also don't underestimate prolactin, which at 500 mg / week of deca definitely increased ... I think you should get arimidex and cabergoline..

You should also test progesterone and prolactin.

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

It does not have sense to check prolactin if my E2 is so high.

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How so? P4 (progesterone) receptors activation from deca and estradiol are both stimulating factors for PRL release.

About high E2 the answer is pretty simple, if you don't respond to stance simply switch to adex.

@Bizzarro: yes, but PRL with E2 so high, would be normal to find it higher. I will test it next week, but as you know, controlling E2 is a key factor to control PRL.

I switched today to Adex 0.5/EOD. I will decrease DECA dosage to 300mg/week for now. I started Nolva 20mg too for a while, to block gyno issue as i told before.

Important: a strange thing i've noticed that is on the side of the nipple where i have small underskin lump, is subaxillary lump as lymph node a bit swelled; i can touch it as it's very in surface, it seems to be just subcutaneous, immediately under the skin... do you think this is gyno onset symptoms related or could it be Exemestane sides ? What do you think about ? it's just from a week i've E2 so higher, as i do BW every week and monitor steadily all my panels.

A lot guys face problems with non pharma grade AI you should look for pharma adex asap or pharma exemestane stack the nolva with exemestane.

Another thing helpful but not that much 400mg of dim dindolymethane it has AI effects but not as the meds of course but it's useful. Or you can eat 4 small plates of broccoli that's better than nothing.

I think the subaxillary little lump i feel is a sebaceous cyst caused by high E2 level too. I noticed by a while some pimples that appear in any part of my body; they are in the surface of the skin and have a red boundary around... so it seems to be acne is appearing. I suppose the subaxillary little lump i feel is part of the same reaction. What i wondering if this is could be related, again, with high E2....

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Originally Posted by TestoSuper

Hello Slacker,
I have never used Aromasin and don't know it, but always used arimidex and I never had minimum problems of high estrogen ... Arimidex is really very powerful in this, doses 0.25 or 0.5 EOD should be sufficient in a cycle like yours.
It's strange your reaction because the Test E dosage 250 mg / week is really very low ... also don't underestimate prolactin, which at 500 mg / week of deca definitely increased ... I think you should get arimidex and cabergoline..

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Test E dosage is low... but it's a LONG ester. This means, that 250mg/week at 6th week, become over 500-600mg in your blood stream....

Huh? No Slacker, no way.

Like I said before, test progesterone and prolactin.

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

Test E dosage is low... but it's a LONG ester. This means, that 250mg/week at 6th week, become over 500-600mg in your blood stream....

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ok it's true, and probably you are very prone also!
Anyway, my advice is to try arimidex (I always used it with Test and Dbol) and it is very very powerful in preventing ..
Also, after my recent experience with Deca (as you know well :winken:) at 500 mg/week of Deca it's safer don't underestimate prolactin, try to check it also..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TestoSuper

ok it's true, and probably you are very prone also!
Anyway, my advice is to try arimidex (I always used it with Test and Dbol) and it is very very powerful in preventing ..
Also, after my recent experience with Deca (as you know well :winken:) at 500 mg/week of Deca it's safer don't underestimate prolactin, try to check it also..

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First, i have to lower E2 and reverse Gyno onset. I'm taking following the Austinite's Nolva protocol, because what i have it'a clear sign of its early onset, and starting now i'm able to reverse it at all.
I will lower DECA to 300-350mg/week leaving the Test E as it is. I already switched to Adex 0.5/EOD: that is what i used the previous cycle with the same gear and never had estrogens issue even at same BF.
Adex is better for high aromatizable compounds and folks like me. I will come back use Exemestane just if i will start a bulking cycle with a very low BF ( ~12-14% ).

But... about your prolactin what will it end ???? Update me...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

First, i have to lower E2 and reverse Gyno onset. I'm taking following the Austinite's Nolva protocol, because what i have it'a clear sign of its early onset, and starting now i'm able to reverse it at all.
I will lower DECA to 300-350mg/week leaving the Test E as it is. I already switched to Adex 0.5/EOD: that is what i used the previous cycle with the same gear and never had estrogens issue even at same BF.
Adex is better for high aromatizable compounds and folks like me. I will come back use Exemestane just if i will start a bulking cycle with a very low BF ( ~12-14% ).

But... about your prolactin what will it end ???? Update me...

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my prolactin is ok until now, I finished the fourth week caber 2 x 0.25 mg/week and I checked total testosterone only last week, it was slightly more than 3 ng / dl ... a bit better than previous (2.68 ng/dl)...
So, I decided to do another 2 weeks at caber 2 x 0.5 mg / week and after I will recheck total testosterone, if it got up even a little bit, for me it's ok and i will start my Bulk cycle next months... :winken:
Ah... I am thinking that this time maybe I will save Deca for the next year.. (although I bought it) :1ponder:

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Originally Posted by TestoSuper

my prolactin is ok until now, I finished the fourth week caber 2 x 0.25 mg/week and I checked total testosterone only last week, it was slightly more than 3 ng / dl ... a bit better than previous (2.68 ng/dl)...
So, I decided to do another 2 weeks at caber 2 x 0.5 mg / week and after I will recheck total testosterone, if it got up even a little bit, for me it's ok and i will start my Bulk cycle next months... :winken:
Ah... I am thinking that this time maybe I will save Deca for the next year.. (although I bought it) :1ponder:

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So prolaction went down a bit ?

Further, did you have sides from caber during this using period ?

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

So prolaction went down a bit ?

Further, did you have sides from caber during this using period ?

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I'm three weeks into caber at 0.25mg x2 weekly.


Haven't re-checked PRL, but I can tell about sides. At first, I did experience some light headaches, tren did the same but worse, this is rather unusual side and I believe it's from dysregulated SE receptors. Second, lethargy and drowsiness. It should have lasted a few days only but the brain must be having an hard time adapting to the drug. Last, effect on sexual function is quite weird - it's like you build up the tension but it never gets released, hence gratification from climax is blunted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

So prolaction went down a bit ?

Further, did you have sides from caber during this using period ?

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Yes I think that prolactin has dropped a little (but I have not measured it yet) .. anyway I felt the effects from the earliest days (increased libido and easier erections) ..
I had no particular sides, except for a few mild headache associated with nausea once, but I don't know if it was caused by caber directly... maybe not .. otherwise everything ok!

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

I'm three weeks into caber at 0.25mg x2 weekly.


Haven't re-checked PRL, but I can tell about sides. At first, I did experience some light headaches, tren did the same but worse, this is rather unusual side and I believe it's from dysregulated SE receptors. Second, lethargy and drowsiness. It should have lasted a few days only but the brain must be having an hard time adapting to the drug. Last, effect on sexual function is quite weird - it's like you build up the tension but it never gets released, hence gratification from climax is blunted.

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It seems to be the presence of 2 forces against each other..

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

It seems to be the presence of 2 forces against each other..

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Indeed: Dopamine (inhibitory) vs Noradrenaline (excitatory). Theoretically you need an optimal balance between the two. For example, DA receptors stimulation without enough NA activity will lead to lethargy and drowsiness.

Anyway, i hope my Gyno onset will be reversed... i got it in an early stage i think, as the sign was a redness around the right nipple and a little lump sensation near it, in the red area. I attacked it soon i hope.... as you can see in pictures, the right side ( left in picture ) is more pronounced than left one. Consider that a fair amount is fat, because the lump i feel is very very small and without pain ( i think is an early state ).

Attachment 165848

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

Indeed: Dopamine (inhibitory) vs Noradrenaline (excitatory). Theoretically you need an optimal balance between the two. For example, DA receptors stimulation without enough NA activity will lead to lethargy and drowsiness.

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That's normal. With a DA agonist, you're increasing inhibition... so that's should explain your eiaculation issue.

OT: Hey guys, do you have Facebook ?

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Originally Posted by Slacker78

Anyway, i hope my Gyno onset will be reversed... i got it in an early stage i think, as the sign was a redness around the right nipple and a little lump sensation near it, in the red area. I attacked it soon i hope.... as you can see in pictures, the right side ( left in picture ) is more pronounced than left one. Consider that a fair amount is fat, because the lump i feel is very very small and without pain ( i think is an early state ).

Attachment 165848

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Well no wonder you got an high rate of aromatization at your %bf. Are you planning some cutting later on?

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

Well no wonder you got an high rate of aromatization at your %bf. Are you planning some cutting later on?

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Yes. Last 4 weeks ( i planned a 13 weeks cycle ), i will remove deca and test E, and i will use just Test prop 200mg/week changing totally the diet and increasing cardio, till the 13th week.