Test Cyp,Dbol,Deca,tren stack for MASS !!!

hello guys !
need advise for the 1st cycle
i'm a 21 male
weight: 170 pound
height: 182 cm 5'11''
nearly 12-13% bf

with a 4 years expirence of training

planning to be a bulking one with

week 1-7 Test cyp 750 mg/week
week 1-7 Deca 450 mg/week
week 1-7 Dbol 40 mg/ED
week 8-12 Test Prop 200 mg/EOD
week 8-12 tren acet 150 mg/EOD

with applying HCG 250 iu/week
tamoxifen citrate 20 mg/ED
Liver booster of like NAC


what could I expect from this cycle and what should i do to get the maximum benefits of it !!!!!

Now way this is a serious post.

But what to could expect is a lot of wasted money, side effects and regret. If this is your first cycle, just doing a simple 500mg a week Test cyp cycle would yield you better results actually.

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Originally Posted by MuscleScience

Now way this is a serious post.

But what to could expect is a lot of wasted money, side effects and regret. If this is your first cycle, just doing a simple 500mg a week Test cyp cycle would yield you better results actually.

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wasted money !!!!
why do yoy say this !!
i think that the simple one is the waste man

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Originally Posted by ma7mad5aled

wasted money !!!!
why do yoy say this !!
i think that the simple one is the waste man

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If I spent the time to tell you why, would you even listen?

All I know is whoever gave you that cycle advise hates your guts.

maybe i'll listen !!
or kindly tell me what is your suggestions for a cycle not that simple of the 500 mg test ! :)

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Originally Posted by ma7mad5aled

maybe i'll listen !!
or kindly tell me what is your suggestions for a cycle not that simple of the 500 mg test ! :)

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Fine, add dbol. Since you have never cycled before no matter what compound you put in your body, you will experience phenomenal results. Adding test P and Tren for the last four weeks would be utterly useless they need to be ran for 8-10 weeks minimum.

Deca on a first cycle is extremely silly because it will block the testosterone at the Androgen receptor and make it none additive. You don't want to run more than one compound on your cycle because your body will not have up regulated the Androgen receptors yet. So you have all those different steroids in you competing for a limited amount of spots to attach to. Secondly the enzyme esterace which cleaves the molecule that keeps any steroid compound inactive in the body will also be in very short supply. Not until you have cycled 3-4 times will your body have enough on hand to activate all those steroids in your body before you piss them out or they are destroyed In the liver. Not that I'm an telling you to do any cycle. That's just what I would do at your age if I was inclined.

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Originally Posted by ma7mad5aled

not that simple of the 500 mg test ! :)

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Your 170lbs and 21 years old and your reply to solid advice is "not that simple of the 500 mg test!" - you need to eat, I don't know what the hell is up with you scrawny kids these days being afraid of food and wanting to jump on the drugs.

Put down the needle, eat, lift, revisit the needle in 4 years time after you have some real experience training. Your cycle is crap, if you don't want to listen to anyone's advice why bother asking, just go do whatever it is you want to do.

I'm not going to be as hard on you as the other guys.....what's the point? Imo this cycle is just way to complicated and advanced for a first cycle....1 you don't need all that, 2 at your age you will get phenomenal results at 500-750mg of test only, 3 where do you go after a cycle like this....double every thing? 4 It is a very expensive cycle!

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Originally Posted by ma7mad5aled

maybe i'll listen !!
or kindly tell me what is your suggestions for a cycle not that simple of the 500 mg test ! :)

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Why do you think you are above running just 500mg test a week? We are assuming this is your 1st cycle.And if you do things right and your bf is good you will grow like a weed.And you are only going too grow so much each cycle.And if you never used test before and have a bad reaction and you are using other compounds.Which compound gave you the problems? But I will make it simple for you.#1 you are to young #2 You and yours buddies think you need to take a bunch of different compounds to get big and be cool doing it.I mean why else would you think you are above a 500mg test cycle? I will tell you this much.You are rolling the dice with your health cycling at your age.Just beacuse your friends do it and they seem ok.WRONG! it can take yrs too happen.So you go run that cycle with tren and Deca.You will be a real big hit with the ladies with a dick that wont work or the desire to do so and you are depressed.Now thats cool bro :)

AGE
In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age. There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection/tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.



TRAINING
You need a few years of hard training under your belt before even considering taking any kind of anabolic support, people who jump on a cycle to soon without having some quality years under their belt usually results in injuries, it takes time to develop your connective tissue, tendons and nervous system to heavy overload training. Slowly getting your own system use to these kinds of extreme's will only help in muscle growth later on when you do decide to start taking AAS.

Build a solid foundation for muscle tissue to grow and maintaining and development will be far greater than without it. Many younger guys will start cycling before they have reached their genetic potential which is crazy when a good solid diet and training program will be far beneficial and productive to muscle building.

Workouts should be mainly focused on basic movements with a priority of over loading the muscle each and ever time you train, increasing your strength and ability to lift in proper form will help with building the foundation for future development


DIET
A lot of younger bodybuilders don't know how to eat. Researching and understanding how your own body responds will help you get to your natural limit, the right food at the right time and a full understanding of proteins,carbs, and fats will only help you succeed in achieving your natural goals. Keeping a diet diary will also help you understand the importance of macro, nutrients, calories and should help you see in which areas you could be going wrong in adding lean muscle tissue.

No matter how much anabolic support you have it will be worthless without proper nutrition, food will help build and maintain your valued muscle weather its natural, cycling or in PCT. Adjusting your food intake and consuming muscle building foods coupled with a solid training program will help you achieve your natural limit and foundation before you start AAS use.

This area is a huge problem with the younger guys and I can't express enough how important diet/food is when first starting out, post and pre training nutrition are very important and understanding how to load and feed the body will help push growth and create a very natural anabolic environment.

Wow you have received some great advise from some VERY knowledgeable ppl. For nothing but the kindness of their soul and you would be hasty to not re asess your cycle? It's like getting top lawyer advise for free.

You are too young to use test 500 even and you should be a natty for 4 more years.

If you run that cycle at 21 its almost certain that your natty test production will never come back withing range for your age. Meaning, if you want to grow you have to gear. That is some bad circumstances for a guy in the early 20s. A guy at your age should easily be growing from ok training and enough protein only.
Why dont u milk everything out of your body and keep growing and growing and growing for another 4 years and when you reach a plateu at 24-25 its time for aas which will help u grow more and if you start with test only and add another component each cycle and increase doses you could stil be growing for another 5-10 years.
That will be 15 years of growing. Think about that.

But if you do it your way you will grow like a motherfucker for two months but u will also shrink as a motherfucker for 6 months and your training will be a rollarcoaster for the rest of your life and with that cycle so early you need to up the dosages soon and then u will run into lifethreatening sideeffects, much more serious than a ruined hpta.

Quote:

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week 1-7 Test cyp 750 mg/week
week 1-7 Deca 450 mg/week
week 1-7 Dbol 40 mg/ED
week 8-12 Test Prop 200 mg/EOD
week 8-12 tren acet 150 mg/EOD

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Holymeatyballs, that is a lot of shit.

more is better logic? LUL right?

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Originally Posted by MuscleScience

Fine, add dbol. Since you have never cycled before no matter what compound you put in your body, you will experience phenomenal results. Adding test P and Tren for the last four weeks would be utterly useless they need to be ran for 8-10 weeks minimum.

Deca on a first cycle is extremely silly because it will block the testosterone at the Androgen receptor and make it none additive. You don't want to run more than one compound on your cycle because your body will not have up regulated the Androgen receptors yet. So you have all those different steroids in you competing for a limited amount of spots to attach to. Secondly the enzyme esterace which cleaves the molecule that keeps any steroid compound inactive in the body will also be in very short supply. Not until you have cycled 3-4 times will your body have enough on hand to activate all those steroids in your body before you piss them out or they are destroyed In the liver. Not that I'm an telling you to do any cycle. That's just what I would do at your age if I was inclined.

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Not to take away from the ops thread but I dont believe Decca would block the test there's tons of ar receptors. Other wise running large stacks would be pointless with multiple compounds.

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Originally Posted by 4linked

Not to take away from the ops thread but I dont believe Decca would block the test there's tons of ar receptors. Other wise running large stacks would be pointless with multiple compounds.

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So what happens when you have one keyhole and several keys, which one will fit the keyhole and what happens to the other keys?

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

So what happens when you have one keyhole and several keys, which one will fit the keyhole and what happens to the other keys?

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There's more locks than there are keys. Your body produces more Ar receptors in the precense of androgens

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Originally Posted by 4linked

Not to take away from the ops thread but I dont believe Decca would block the test there's tons of ar receptors. Other wise running large stacks would be pointless with multiple compounds.

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There is a large body of evidence that it does. Deca along with trenbolen has been investigated as a way to block T or DHT more specifically action on the prostate when someone has say prostate cancer or prostate hypetrophy.

There is a set number of AR per cell, because steroid hormones act directly on the DNA molecule. The only thing that changes is how many of those AR are in an unblocked configuration to accept a steroid molecule to translate proteins.

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Originally Posted by MuscleScience

There is a large body of evidence that it does. Deca along with trenbolen has been investigated as a way to block T or DHT more specifically action on the prostate when someone has say prostate cancer or prostate hypetrophy.

There is a set number of AR per cell, because steroid hormones act directly on the DNA molecule. The only thing that changes is how many of those AR are in an unblocked configuration to accept a steroid molecule to translate proteins.

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Attachment 166054

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Originally Posted by 4linked

There's more locks than there are keys. Your body produces more Ar receptors in the precense of androgens

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So, you are saying a cell produces infinite number of AR if there is androgens present? Seems you are misinterpreting something you read. Wheres the data?

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Originally Posted by ironbeck

Wow you have received some great advise from some VERY knowledgeable ppl. For nothing but the kindness of their soul and you would be hasty to not re asess your cycle? It's like getting top lawyer advise for free.

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lol and too sadly true. I've been practicing law for a long time and the free advice I've given, while excellent, is rarely taken. I wish it weren't so. When I get paid a non-refundable deemed earned retainer up-front, my legal advice is the gospel.

For what it's worth when I add ace into a stack with test p and NPP I notice a difference.

Then if add an oral on top of test p/NPP/tren I notice a difference.

I'm not sure what's happening at the cellular level but all the compounds are definitely effecting my body.

Geez mate don't do this cycle, I'll use myself as an example. I came on here asking advice on my first cycle which consisted of test 500mg and deca 400mg, the guys told me to not worry about the deca but I was ignorant and did it anyway, well guess what, yes I got huge and looked great but now that I'm on my second cycle of just test I'm actually looking just as good and actually feel better. I wasted money on the Deca and would not of looked any different anyway. Start small and see how things go, I've decided I'll only ever run small test cycles and I'll be happy with these results. Stay safe mate and listen to these guys

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

So, you are saying a cell produces infinite number of AR if there is androgens present? Seems you are misinterpreting something you read. Wheres the data?

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Did you read the attachment I posted

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Originally Posted by 4linked

Did you read the attachment I posted

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Yes, doesn't really answer to MuscleScience statement. Neither reveals anything about number of AR and conditions for upregulation.

Its alot more complicated than what you are suggesting, otherwise we wouldn't even need to train for muscles to grow, we could just keep increasing steroids concentration and we would grow exponentially.

We all know it doesn't work like that, don't you?

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Yes, doesn't really answer to MuscleScience statement. Neither reveals anything about number of AR and conditions for upregulation.

Its alot more complicated than what you are suggesting, otherwise we wouldn't even need to train for muscles to grow, we could just keep increasing steroids concentration and we would grow exponentially.

We all know it doesn't work like that, don't you?

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Lol yes I was just under the impression that if if your took test tren mast Winny eq and mast for a competition I don't believe tren would be the only active compound. They would all find ar receptors.

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Originally Posted by 4linked

Lol yes I was just under the impression that if if your took test tren mast Winny eq and mast for a competition I don't believe tren would be the only active compound. They would all find ar receptors.

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Only a small percentage find receptors, a lot is excreted or reduced/aromatized.

Different compounds can have different tasks, I can agree with that, but if you are not looking for a specific task (like for example mast hardening and thin the skin), if you only want to grow muscles it is better IMO to use single strong compound for that, then add weak ones which will only compete with the strong ones. At least thats my opinion...

Reminds me of my first post ever here...long long ago...

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Originally Posted by Grappler13

I am a grappler (3-5 times a week for 1.5 hours) and thought I would do a short safe cycle to help with strength and recovery. I am currently set up to take 20 D-Bol ED for six weeks split into 5mg doses throughout the day. At week two, I was planning on adding 200mg deca injectable once per week for five weeks. I have clomid on hand in case of gyno but was planning on saving it for PCT. If I start to develop some aromatizing symptoms, should I start the clomid and if so, How much per day. Also, do I NEED an anti-e if I've got the clomid (thinking it will carry me over until I can get some Arimidex or Nov). Fnally, I thought I was putting together a responsible basic cycle but some posts have been emphatic about adding test to the old Deca-DBol stack and say my sex drive will go as flaccid a s my member if I don't. I want this cycle to be easy and safe (clean diet and no alcohol, etc..) but if I ned the test and or an anti-e, I will get it. ANY ASSISTANCE would be greatly appreciated.

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I listened though and didn't do what I was proposing. There is so much good info on this forum and it takes years to synthesize it. It's hard not to want to go "all out" when you've committed to running a cycle but caution is the way to go.