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Thread: Sub-Q vs. IM

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    Coffeehead is offline Associate Member
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    Sub-Q vs. IM

    I'll preface this with, I'm a big baby about needles and am attempting to suck it up since you need to be able to inject to run a proper cycle.

    I've read around that SQ is perfectly fine and absorbs 100% of test just fine, so why is IM often touted as the preferred method of injection? I'm new here and just trying to understand what my options are.

    I had originally intended to do SubQ, but then decided to do IM in the quad or glute. I'm probably going to pin for the first time tonight or tomorrow and really just need someone to talk some sense into me. Still planning to do the quad IM, but for only injecting .66ml wouldn't Sub-Q suffice? Or does it depend more on the amount of test being injected? I figure small amounts of oil may provide a better chance of doing a sub-q injection successfully.

    Much Thanks

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    Oil to be injected deep in the muscle.

    Most ppl will get big bumps from injecting oil subq which will last over a week.

    T400 is not advised for first cycle, it gives huge pip. You sure you have researched everything?

  3. #3
    Coffeehead is offline Associate Member
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    Thanks for your reply.

    Well - I never said I've researched everything but have read around. Lots of conflicting info out there regarding SubQ vs. IM and I'm just trying to get some clarity from vets like yourself. It sounds like I should stick to the quad injection I was planning on doing.

    I'm also not running T400. I opted for E300, which I'm aware of still will give PIP, but as a first timer I felt the less amount of time I have to spend injecting is probably going to help me get over the fear of sticking a needle in myself.

    I'm only going to run 200mg, so 2/3 of a Test-E 300.

  4. #4
    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    Try it. But only like .3ml
    Best way to find out.

    What about pct, AI and hcg ?

  5. #5
    Coffeehead is offline Associate Member
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    Clomid 100/100/50/50
    Nolva 40/40/20/20
    Adex: 1mg EOD

    No HCG .

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    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead View Post
    Clomid 100/100/50/50
    Nolva 40/40/20/20
    Adex: 1mg EOD

    No HCG.
    That's likely too much dex.

    You should read the link attached below.

    With all the information available it doesn't make sense to skip hcg .

    Ancillary Reference Guide

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    That's likely too much dex.

    You should read the link attached below.

    With all the information available it doesn't make sense to skip hcg .
    So you would go with 0.5mg EOD to avoid sides?

    In regards to HCG:

    - Can I load it in the same syringe as the test, or does it need to be injected separately?

    - If I can get some HCG in the next week or two, does it make any sense to start using it 2-3 weeks into a cycle?

  8. #8
    Couchlock is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead View Post

    So you would go with 0.5mg EOD to avoid sides?

    In regards to HCG :

    - Can I load it in the same syringe as the test, or does it need to be injected separately?

    - If I can get some HCG in the next week or two, does it make any sense to start using it 2-3 weeks into a cycle?
    You can load it in same syringe, but you'd have to end up sticking a oily needle in your hcg bottle, or got covered needle in your test bottle, either way its a possibility of cross contaminating one vial or the other.

    Hcg can be injected im or sub q.

    Hcg loaded into a 1/2" or 5/8" 30g insulin syringe can easily be injected im in the deltoid, just push that thing all the way in, aspirate a bit and inject.

    Its how I do it, no problems at all.

    Plus water and oil mixed could cause a Little More pip than either one done alone.

  9. #9
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    IMO sub-q injects cause more discomfort than IM...plus with sub-q depending on the amount you inject could cause a temporary deformity.

    Personally if your not going to cycle properly and use proper techniques than IMO your nor ready to cycle.....needles are a BB's friend....

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    Dr. Rand McClain on using oil based hormones and HCG in the same pin.https://youtu.be/GsMQXuKhrzc?list=PL...RCps09TDo0qNZ0

  11. #11
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    Deltoids are the easiest site to pin (less nerves and blood vessels, quick and easy to reach).
    And Sub-Q is only an option for HRT doses.
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    I did sub-Q for a while on TRT, as prescribed. The test was compounded in sesame oil and fairly painless to inject, but it was TRT dose and just as mentioned above caused lumps in my abdomen. There was also redness and slight tenderness for a day or two. It apparently caused a local inflammatory process sufficient enough to leave permanent lumps in the areas of injections. I am prone to lipomas and my guess is the sub-Q caused these where the fat was irritated by the injection.
    I wouldn't touch it again sub-Q even in low doses. GH and HCG are the only thing I consider doing sub-Q.
    If no one on this forum endorses something, it is usually for a good reason, considering all the experience and knowledge found here.

  13. #13
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    I appreciate all the replies here. I'm going to stick to IM, likely start in the quad and work up to other places like the shoulders and glutes.

    Will also look into a HCG and whether to implement it a couple weeks into the cycle. Again, all the feedback is very much appreciated.


    To all my American brethren, Happy Thanksgiving e'eryone!
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  14. #14
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    You as well Coffee! Best wishes...

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    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead View Post
    So you would go with 0.5mg EOD to avoid sides?

    In regards to HCG :

    - Can I load it in the same syringe as the test, or does it need to be injected separately?

    - If I can get some HCG in the next week or two, does it make any sense to start using it 2-3 weeks into a cycle?
    Imo you should begin with 0.25mg/EOD of dex.

    Then have blood work mid cycle that contains a sensitive e2 test.

    Based on the results of that test you can increase the dex dosage if needed.

    Test and hcg can be loaded in the same syringe but from my experience you'll be better off buying a box of insulin syringes and pinning the hcg subq.

    Yes, beginning hcg 2-3 weeks into a cycle is better than the never using it, but you should postpone starting the cycle until you have hcg.

    FYI when storing hcg for long periods and using the vial for multiple injections you need to reconstitute with bacteriostatic water.

    The sodium chloride water hcg comes packaged with is intended only for single use.

    What is your intended protocol for PCT?
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  16. #16
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    Just wanted to update y'all:

    Got my 1st pin successfully under my belt. No PIP, steady hand (for the most part) and minimal discomfort. Went after the right quad, 1/4 of the way down, about 60 degrees laterally from center in that diamond shaped region between the lateral femoral cutaneous branch nerves. Aspirate , success, and plunge.

    You know what sucked? Taking a full minute to inject 0.6ml of test-300E with a 27g. Gonna purchase some 23g or 25g now. I got a little woozy looking at that thing in my leg for a full minute.

    Y'all are my heroes for helping me navigate through these uncharted waters.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    Imo you should begin with 0.25mg/EOD of dex.

    Then have blood work mid cycle that contains a sensitive e2 test.

    Based on the results of that test you can increase the dex dosage if needed.

    Test and hcg can be loaded in the same syringe but from my experience you'll be better off buying a box of insulin syringes and pinning the hcg subq.

    Yes, beginning hcg 2-3 weeks into a cycle is better than the never using it, but you should postpone starting the cycle until you have hcg.

    FYI when storing hcg for long periods and using the vial for multiple injections you need to reconstitute with bacteriostatic water.

    The sodium chloride water hcg comes packaged with is intended only for single use.

    What is your intended protocol for PCT?
    Noted. I've read that I should use the least amount of adex as possible. Splitting a tiny pill into 1/4 while be difficult out but I'll figure it out.

    I'll need to research hcg more and figure out to properly use it. I'm afraid I haven't done adequate research on it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead View Post
    Noted. I've read that I should use the least amount of adex as possible. Splitting a tiny pill into 1/4 while be difficult out but I'll figure it out.

    I'll need to research hcg more and figure out to properly use it. I'm afraid I haven't done adequate research on it.
    I use a pill cutter with a sliding bracket that secures the pill. I have rx for adex and split the small pills without issue. Are they exactly 1/4 each? No, but of no consequence.

  19. #19
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    I liked SubQ shots for a while, as I thought "plentifull sites, no scar tissue in the muscles"
    So i used to Place the shots (dont start with over 0,5ml, and I only use Pharma grade test) over each adominal muscle,
    The first hours there's a visible lump, but it flattens out and just becomes an extra lump over the abs, looking normal.
    Also tried winstrol and tren and most anything SubQ.
    Never got a any permament lump, but did notice increased thickening of skin.
    Now I stopped, (or do it when im really in a hurry and just need a simple quick spot),
    and the skin and all signs of it are disappearing.

    So, yes and no an you do SubQ.
    I would advice against doing all shots there.
    A few, OK, but not to replace IM shots.

  20. #20
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    Also, most times i try a New batch of gear, i do 0,5ml subq first.
    But thats cause Id prefer a immunoreaction / infection in my fat tissue Close to the skin, where i coukd easily remove it,
    than deep IM, where its gonna stay.
    Have to say I've never had a need for this precautioun though.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonaparte View Post
    Deltoids are the easiest site to pin (less nerves and blood vessels, quick and easy to reach).
    And Sub-Q is only an option for HRT doses.
    Needle length for delts? 5/8" good enough or 3/4"

  22. #22
    Billegitimate is offline Junior Member
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    I use either 31g .3cc insulin syringes or a BD305536 .5cc syringe and do everything subq. With the bd syringe I can actually do .55cc and I have no problems. A very occasional lump but it's gone in a couple days.

    I have done TRt this way for years and have blasted over 600mg test cyp per week by doing a .55cc shot every night 6 out of 7 nights.

    When I'm doing that I have a long site rotation. Six spots on abs, 3 on upper thigh (6 total) and 2 on each glute (4 total) so even with daily shots I'm not hitting the same spot more often than every 16 days.

    Never had a problem in years. Watson, PSL, compounded test Cypionate all no issue. Done same thing with test prop, mast prop and mast enanthste. First time I use a new compound I inject .1. Bump it by .1 every day till intended dose. That way if I have a reaction to something I found out with a small impact. Never an issue ever.

    For .3-.5ml the bd305536 is perfect. If using Watson, heat the vial with a hair dryer first. That stuff is like gear oil.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead View Post
    Just wanted to update y'all:

    Got my 1st pin successfully under my belt. No PIP, steady hand (for the most part) and minimal discomfort....
    You won't know for sure, until 24 hours have passed....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Bastard View Post
    You won't know for sure, until 24 hours have passed....
    So I've noticed. LMAO!

    I've got a little soreness in the region about 6" below the injection spot, and more medial. Assuming this is normal?

    It's nothing unbearable, but It definitely feels sore like I banged it against something like the corner of a bed.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Oil to be injected deep in the muscle.

    Most ppl will get big bumps from injecting oil subq which will last over a week.

    T400 is not advised for first cycle, it gives huge pip. You sure you have researched everything?

    Most PDR's instruct for AAS to be injected DEEP IM. I've done it that way for years with success and no problems.
    Some doing SUBQ will complain of bruising or irritation at the site of injection. I would go small amount if you want to
    experiment.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead View Post
    So I've noticed. LMAO!

    I've got a little soreness in the region about 6" below the injection spot, and more medial. Assuming this is normal?

    It's nothing unbearable, but It definitely feels sore like I banged it against something like the corner of a bed.
    Sounds normal.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    Needle length for delts? 5/8" good enough or 3/4"
    You can probably get away with 1/2", but 1" is best.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonaparte View Post
    You can probably get away with 1/2", but 1" is best.
    I USE 1.5" for glutes and 1" for every place else like DELTS, BICEPS, QUADS etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALIN View Post

    I USE 1.5" for glutes and 1" for every place else like DELTS, BICEPS, QUADS etc...
    Biceps.... Hows that feel?!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    Biceps.... Hows that feel?!?
    I use 30g 1/2 slin pins for those, no more than 0.5 ml, and only get minor PIP. The same for quads/delts, for glutes 5/8 25g.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    Biceps.... Hows that feel?!?
    Pretty easy, most of the big vessels and nerves run behind the humerus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post

    I use 30g 1/2 slin pins for those, no more than 0.5 ml, and only get minor PIP. The same for quads/delts, for glutes 5/8 25g.
    Oil based, through a 30g?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    Oil based, through a 30g?
    You can only push the oil out but not draw it. I backload them by removing the plunger.
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  34. #34
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    I've been injecting with a 27g, and while it slides in with ease, keeping the pin in my leg for a minute or more just to inject 0.6ml is brutal. I can't imagine how long a 30g would take for someone who injects far more.

  35. #35
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    I dunno guys, I resolve in less than a minute. I like UGL test more than pharma for that reason, the latter is too thick for slin pins.

    The Tren I use got EO as a carrier and it runs almost like water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    I dunno guys, I resolve in less than a minute. I like UGL test more than pharma for that reason, the latter is too thick for slin pins.

    The Tren I use got EO as a carrier and it runs almost like water.
    Maybe I'm just a p*ssy who can't push the plunger fast enough. I believe my source is UGL so that shouldn't be the reason. I'm also a rookie so that may explain it.

    Attempted to do glutes yesterday and felt I couldn't get the right angle so I went to my other quad - easy. Any suggestions?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead
    Maybe I'm just a p*ssy who can't push the plunger fast enough. I believe my source is UGL so that shouldn't be the reason. I'm also a rookie so that may explain it. Attempted to do glutes yesterday and felt I couldn't get the right angle so I went to my other quad - easy. Any suggestions?
    Practice practice practice lol.
    I have a pretty good idea of what areas not to pin after enough times hitting nerves etc lol
    It's all shit you learn over time. Sometimes I'll have an issue like you said and I just switch muscle groups and go again. Getting frustrated makes pinning hurt more for me

  38. #38
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    Thanks!

    I injected another 150mg for the 3rd time in the last 4 days as part of my "practice. I FORGOT TO ASPIRATE !!!! Prior to injecting, I tried to play it cool and not get too worked up by overthinking it, and I forgot to go through my mental checklist and forgot maybe one of the most important steps. Sigh....

    I'm not dead yet, so I'll take that as a good sign. Luckily it was in the delt, and I hear it's harder to hit any veins (or nerves) there. (?)

  39. #39
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    I guess I lucked out with my sub-q. Since I was familiar with it & already used it for TRT, I ran a 12 wk. cycle w/ 525mg. test c, purely sub-q. Only had a small lump once, went away in a week.

    Took me about 9 weeks to get my test levels maxed out though, took BW at both 6 and 9 weeks, huge increase. After returning to my TRT dosage, my BW at 8 wks. post cycle was still very high - guess it stays absorbed for a while.

  40. #40
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    Do we know what carrier oil Watson uses? I've been using some compounded test-cyp as of late with no PIP, zero and it shoots easy. Now i've got some shiny new Watson Cyp and am considering shooting in the delts with a 5/8th inch 25 guage pin. I can't seem to get the theory around sub-q How do you know you're really there...?

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