First (real) Cycle

**MakeMeGreg** · 11-21-2016, 02:05 AM

Hello,

Swim is about to embark upon their first real cycle. Swim is 21 yr old, 5 10'', 175lbs, 15% BFish. Swim climbed up to 210lb naturally and was putting up 225lbs for around 16 to 18 reps on bench with comparable numbers on the other less important and more womanly primary powerlifts such as squats, deadlift, and hip abductors.

Swim made the mistake of running two separate 4 wk cycles of oral winny (50 mg ed) at 17 and 18 respectively. Swim got a bit out of them but the bulk of the gains didn't happen until swim was 20.

Physically, there seem to be no adverse side effects nor any diminishment in libido. Hard to tell if there were any adverse psychological effects as swim does have days he feels down, but it doesnt seem to be any chronic form of depression. Consider swim has a family history of depression, swim would say any lows could easily be attributed to that. Swim is still a bit concerned however. Considering its been 2.5 years, should swim get his T levels checked or is this just paranoia?

(Swim is currently at a top top tier university if that factors into this equation at all.)

ON TO THE NEW CYCLE

Ok so despite all aforementioned issues, now swim is consider said stack:

Test Prop 125 mg EOD 10 weeks
Aromatase EOD (to prevent water retention)
Winny 60 mg weeks 5-9

Post:
Nolva
HCG

Swims objective is to reach the physique of Greg (psuedo-natty) O'Gallager and the likes.

All advice is welcome. Feel free to scare me shitless if this is a completely idiotic idea...however, if you so choose to take such a stance, please be equally thorough on your documentation of the numerous benefits (aesthetics, social, pussy, strength, pussy, etc...).

Thanks all <3

**michael30** · 11-21-2016, 02:59 AM

Most people on this forum advocate the safest use possible. Which would be to wait several years. Also you state your family has a history of depression. That should also be considered when deciding. There's alot of horror stories where 18- early 20 year olds cycled and caused alot of diffrent issues. Some that never got corrected or fixed. Are you 100% willing to accept those risks? Can your goals be reached without having to accept them? Make sure you consider everything before moving forward!

**MakeMeGreg** · 11-21-2016, 03:40 AM

Not that this is the end-all-be-all justification, but I have seen many guys my age and younger running cycles who seem fine. That being said, my greatest concerns are not physiological, but psychological. I believe theres a lot of evidence to say that re-building natural testosterone levels is well within the scope of possibility. However, I fear: triggering major depression, psychosis, impaired judgment, changes in functionality/presence in a business environment, diminishing intelligence, memory altering personality, destabilizing mood/emotional state of being, alterations in personality etc long-term.

Could anyone shed some light on the long term psychological consequences I could face? (they might even be positive... Many attribute the charisma/presence of Arnold, Zy zz [dont know why this is censored w/ the space], and the like to their use of anabolics.)

As a side note:

should I be concerned about the two poorly run winny only cycles? If so, what should I look out/check for physically or mentally?

And...

What are your general thoughts on sarms ? is it a safer route given my stats?

**Nephets** · 11-21-2016, 06:58 AM

Id stay away from the sarms . if you are going to run a cycle if would drop the winny. keep it simple. the less compounds the less sides, and if you do get sides you will know what's causing it. If doing the safest cycle possible overall is your goal then you should wait until you're 25-26.

**michael30** · 11-21-2016, 09:10 AM

Op personally I would not be concerned about the winny cycles you did due to the fact they were 3 and 4 years ago and you stated everything seems back to normal. That doesn't mean you couldn't have issues down the road. But if 3+ years have went by and everything is normal your probably ok. Getting bloodwork done would be a good idea though. As to cycling, I feel the safest way would be to wait. The one piece of advice I will give about cycling is when you do decide to do it. I highly recommend you drop your body fat % as low as you can before cycling. In my personal experience I got much better results the leaner i was.

**Marsoc** · 11-21-2016, 11:42 AM

I never cycled personaly. but for PCT I hear nolva and clomid. And HCG on cycle only aS it's surpreive as well. No HCG for PCT. ...and why do u consider propionate @ 125mg/week to be a cycle. If anything from what I know that seems like a low testosterpne replacement therapy plan. Almost Simply replacing wht u already make.

**DHew** · 11-21-2016, 12:02 PM

1. Drop the swim thing, it's beyond stupid and legally illogical.
2. Why not get your test levels checked if you're paranoid?
3. Your dosage of test is accurate, I think Marsoc simply got confused. The cycle itself isn't bad, but I would recommend prop at 100mg eod to start. Use hcg at 250iu e3d throughout cycle. Look up the standard nolva and clomid pct.

**MakeMeGreg** · 11-21-2016, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by DHew

1. Drop the swim thing, it's beyond stupid and legally illogical.
2. Why not get your test levels checked if you're paranoid?
3. Your dosage of test is accurate, I think Marsoc simply got confused. The cycle itself isn't bad, but I would recommend prop at 100mg eod to start. Use hcg at 250iu e3d throughout cycle. Look up the standard nolva and clomid pct.

Appreciate the input.

1. hey, hey, hey feisty, just wasnt sure what the forum rules were. Some mandate swim.
2. I likely will as its good for any cycle, but its been difficult from an insurance stance point to justify the blood test as a healthy 21 year old. Its an extra ~200 out of pocket I'd rather forgo
3. So I drop hcg from post and run through out the cycle w/ none in post at all?

Side Notes:

I've hurt prop is painful. Ten weeks eod will run me something around 35 pins. Would that hinder my performance and warrant a longer ester?

How much should this all cost? Im being told $490.

**MakeMeGreg** · 11-21-2016, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by michael30

Op personally I would not be concerned about the winny cycles you did due to the fact they were 3 and 4 years ago and you stated everything seems back to normal. That doesn't mean you couldn't have issues down the road. But if 3+ years have went by and everything is normal your probably ok. Getting bloodwork done would be a good idea though. As to cycling, I feel the safest way would be to wait. The one piece of advice I will give about cycling is when you do decide to do it. I highly recommend you drop your body fat % as low as you can before cycling. In my personal experience I got much better results the leaner i was.

How lean do you think is best? Im right around 14% right now, maybe a bit lower (haven't checked in a while). Im looking to bulk back to 180-185lbs (again more of a natural resting weight for me) while leaning to around 10%. Is that even feasible? Given my past experience with winny I gain a very very dry ~10lbs on winny alone in a one month period. Adding prop should obviously help tremendously.

**Marsoc** · 11-22-2016, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by DHew

1. Drop the swim thing, it's beyond stupid and legally illogical.
2. Why not get your test levels checked if you're paranoid?
3. Your dosage of test is accurate, I think Marsoc simply got confused. The cycle itself isn't bad, but I would recommend prop at 100mg eod to start. Use hcg at 250iu e3d throughout cycle. Look up the standard nolva and clomid pct.

Ur right. I didn't see the eod part ...my bad

**DHew** · 11-22-2016, 12:05 PM

Prop can be, it's nothing you can't deal with. We don't discuss pricing here, but I will leave you with this: you are being ripped off.

**MakeMeGreg** · 11-23-2016, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by DHew

Prop can be, it's nothing you can't deal with. We don't discuss pricing here, but I will leave you with this: you are being ripped off.

Sorry, quoted wrong number...
Prop, Adex, hcg , nolva, winny, and needles for 405

**DHew** · 11-23-2016, 01:43 PM

Stop posting prices before you get banned

**MakeMeGreg** · 11-27-2016, 12:55 AM

Does anyone have a 3 digit phone number, maybe just an area code that might riddle me some answers

**Marsoc** · 11-27-2016, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by MakeMeGreg

Does anyone have a 3 digit phone number, maybe just an area code that might riddle me some answers

Wtf are U talking about lol.. I mean U pay what ur guy/dealer demands for person to person trans actions either. ..or u pay what the site I.e lab or whatever or the pharmacy prices the product as. It's not that hard. Whatever the price is next to the compund. That's the average price for the web sites usually lol. Domestic is always more expensive. For USA.

**MakeMeGreg** · 11-27-2016, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Marsoc

Wtf are U talking about lol.. I mean U pay what ur guy/dealer demands for person to person trans actions either. ..or u pay what the site I.e lab or whatever or the pharmacy prices the product as. It's not that hard. Whatever the price is next to the compund. That's the average price for the web sites usually lol. Domestic is always more expensive. For USA.

Jesus christ, meat heads. So you walk into a car dealership and the salesmen says "heres a nice 1990 toyota camery for the great price of 60,000" and youre response is... "well thats the the transaction price, deal!"... obviously I would like a good value.

That being said... price isnt up for discussion here so an area code number might help me instead... i cant make this anymore obvious for you my friend.

**charger69** · 11-27-2016, 09:51 AM

Your lack of respect will not get you answers.
There are psychological effects. Your libido may tank, you may get gyno, you may have some bad sides, worse yet, your HPTA may not recover. These are all physical, but they turn into psychological. Everyone reacts differently.

**Mr.BB** · 11-27-2016, 09:59 AM

Gear is the cheapest thing of doing steroids . If you are with low budget please forget about hormones, try some creatine...

If you ran into medical problems you need to make sure you have enough cash to get medical attention, and buy needed drugs.

**Marsoc** · 11-27-2016, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by MakeMeGreg

Jesus christ, meat heads. So you walk into a car dealership and the salesmen says "heres a nice 1990 toyota camery for the great price of 60,000" and youre response is... "well thats the the transaction price, deal!"... obviously I would like a good value.

That being said... price isnt up for discussion here so an area code number might help me instead... i cant make this anymore obvious for you my friend.

Have no idea what u mean area code lol. Sorry for swearing but ill say what the heck instead ..but yeah man prices are prices unless u order when the site is having a sale ..I seen boxes of organon sus 250 for 5$ a box. Then I seen the same amount for 45$

PS. Far from meat head buddy. Plus ur 21. U can risk fucking ur natural production up for life then be screwed. Then u will have to really worry about prices since u will need it for The rest of ur life
Plus the thing about the car dealer is the most stupid analogy. Now if someone is asking for to much then u don't get it. But if u look around u will see an average price range and Consider that.
What's ur question exactly