Has the steroid community become more educated?

[Octaneforce]

ive heard alot of misinformation from older guys who started using gear before the internet was around. I guess without this great online community, you only learned by word of mouth and magazines. The two things i hear the most is that an AI isnt neccesary unless you get gyno and that hcg is used for pct. is it correct to say that hcg should be used throughout an entire 12 week test e cycle, then for another 2 additional weeks until pct? Also, should the AI be used for that entire 14 weeks?

[Obs]

AI is necessary on cycle as is hcg and hcg is necessary up to the start of pct. This community is the most knowledgable you will find. This place has grown up with anabolics. Proper research here will dispell all rumor and leave you with facts.

[Octaneforce]

AI is necessary on cycle as is hcg and hcg is necessary up to the start of pct. This community is the most knowledgable you will find. This place has grown up with anabolics. Proper research here will dispell all rumor and leave you with facts.

I agree. Sometimes even young guys just dont take the time to listen to the experienced guys on this forum. I cannot beleive how often i hear of people doing oral only cycles. Shoot, i even remember hearing about oral only gear in high school.

[< <Samson> >]

Man, the shit I hear from the older guys to the young


They just go by word of mouth & never do any sort of research themselves

[GAINZ4DAYZ]

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...hen-cycle.html

[brobeans443]

AI is absolutely not necessary. If you are lean enough, you shouldn't experience any estrogen related symptoms throughout your cycle at all. I just finished a 9 week 600mg/wk Test E cycle without an AI and other than a bit of bloat which was expected, I had no estrogen sides. Plus, estrogen can help a lot with gains.

hcg should be started on week 3 of the cycle, and stopped on the day of your last pin, don't use it during pct.

[songdog]

AI is absolutely not necessary. If you are lean enough, you shouldn't experience any estrogen related symptoms throughout your cycle at all. I just finished a 9 week 600mg/wk Test E cycle without an AI and other than a bit of bloat which was expected, I had no estrogen sides. Plus, estrogen can help a lot with gains.

hcg should be started on week 3 of the cycle, and stopped on the day of your last pin, don't use it during pct.

This is the kind of replys we dont need beacuse they confuse the new guys.Just beacuse you didnt feel anything or get Gyno doesn't mean your E2 levels were not raised.Bloodwork during a cycle can show you this.

[Chicagotarsier]

AI is absolutely not necessary. If you are lean enough, you shouldn't experience any estrogen related symptoms throughout your cycle at all. I just finished a 9 week 600mg/wk Test E cycle without an AI and other than a bit of bloat which was expected, I had no estrogen sides. Plus, estrogen can help a lot with gains.

hcg should be started on week 3 of the cycle, and stopped on the day of your last pin, don't use it during pct.

Incorrect from a medical point of view. Even though everyone is different just the bloat promotes increased sinus blockage and less than nominal sleep. This will up blood pressure and sleep heart rate and reduce oxygen content of the blood and that is the bare minimum of what it will do. Higher than normal estrogen(your body's chosen level and not the range on a generic blood test) impacts the thyroid directly reducing T4 and T3 from nominal values. If you didnt AI then most likely you did not blood test enough to see the impact.

Because you can do it doesn't mean you shoulld

[MuscleScience]

I think every community of every type has became more educated.
We live in the Information Age now where access to any type of information
Is instant. I think in some respects our culture isn't adapting to this new reality
Especially with our education systems and legacy types of media.

The only thing That I worry about is false information being took as fact. If enough people say Something that is patently false enough times, it becomes "fact." Once a particular idea takes root and holds, it is very hard to get people with our many biases and egos to admit we were wrong and accept a new idea. That is why we Should all train ourselves to be open and listen to new ideas no matter how much it pains our ego or takes us out of our intellectual comfort zone.

[brobeans443]

This is the kind of replys we dont need beacuse they confuse the new guys.Just beacuse you didnt feel anything or get Gyno doesn't mean your E2 levels were not raised.Bloodwork during a cycle can show you this.

I am certain mine were raised, and I dont necessarily think that's a bad thing seeing as estrogen is pretty anabolic and helps with gains. The wrong kind of replies would be to say it's an absolute to run an AI like you're saying, which it definitely is not an absolute.

[Mr.BB]

The only thing That I worry about is false information being took as fact. If enough people say Something that is patently false enough times, it becomes "fact." Once a particular idea takes root and holds, it is very hard to get people with our many biases and egos to admit we were wrong and accept a new idea. That is why we Should all train ourselves to be open and listen to new ideas no matter how much it pains our ego or takes us out of our intellectual comfort zone.

Well said.

[Mr.BB]

AI is absolutely not necessary. If you are lean enough, you shouldn't experience any estrogen related symptoms throughout your cycle at all. I just finished a 9 week 600mg/wk Test E cycle without an AI and other than a bit of bloat which was expected, I had no estrogen sides. Plus, estrogen can help a lot with gains.

hcg should be started on week 3 of the cycle, and stopped on the day of your last pin, don't use it during pct.

Just because you don't feel the side effects, doesn't mean you dont have the estrogen of an ovulating female.

High estrogen being unhealthy is not a myth, there is plenty of evidence of promoting cardiovascular problems, and certain types of cancer. The evidence was so overwhelming in the medical community that hormonal therapy (yes, it is mostly estrogen) for menopausal and perimenopausal women is very rare nowadays.

Thinking only at gyno and bloating as estrogen side effects is really only looking at the benign side effects.

[mietek]

ive heard alot of misinformation from older guys who started using gear before the internet was around.

it might be worst now because every idiot can write something on internet and everybody will repeat later.

[Vash the Stampede]

it might be worst now because every idiot can write something on internet and everybody will repeat later.

Perfect example of an idiot is brobeans443. Just the kind of idiot spreading false "facts" that we don't need here.

[Vash the Stampede]

I am certain mine were raised, and I dont necessarily think that's a bad thing seeing as estrogen is pretty anabolic and helps with gains. The wrong kind of replies would be to say it's an absolute to run an AI like you're saying, which it definitely is not an absolute.

You are the idiot I'm referring to in my above post. Stop giving bad advise and spreading false information.

[hammerheart]

AI is absolutely not necessary. If you are lean enough, you shouldn't experience any estrogen related symptoms throughout your cycle at all. I just finished a 9 week 600mg/wk Test E cycle without an AI and other than a bit of bloat which was expected, I had no estrogen sides. Plus, estrogen can help a lot with gains.

hcg should be started on week 3 of the cycle, and stopped on the day of your last pin, don't use it during pct.

If you continue cycling like this your androgen receptors will down-regulate enough you will eventually turn into a woman.

[Euroholic]

I think every community of every type has became more educated.
We live in the Information Age now where access to any type of information
Is instant. I think in some respects our culture isn't adapting to this new reality
Especially with our education systems and legacy types of media.

The only thing That I worry about is false information being took as fact. If enough people say Something that is patently false enough times, it becomes "fact." Once a particular idea takes root and holds, it is very hard to get people with our many biases and egos to admit we were wrong and accept a new idea. That is why we Should all train ourselves to be open and listen to new ideas no matter how much it pains our ego or takes us out of our intellectual comfort zone.

"A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth"

Joseph Goebbels

[brobeans443]

Incorrect from a medical point of view. Even though everyone is different just the bloat promotes increased sinus blockage and less than nominal sleep. This will up blood pressure and sleep heart rate and reduce oxygen content of the blood and that is the bare minimum of what it will do. Higher than normal estrogen(your body's chosen level and not the range on a generic blood test) impacts the thyroid directly reducing T4 and T3 from nominal values. If you didnt AI then most likely you did not blood test enough to see the impact.

Because you can do it doesn't mean you shoulld

Just because you don't feel the side effects, doesn't mean you dont have the estrogen of an ovulating female.

High estrogen being unhealthy is not a myth, there is plenty of evidence of promoting cardiovascular problems, and certain types of cancer. The evidence was so overwhelming in the medical community that hormonal therapy (yes, it is mostly estrogen) for menopausal and perimenopausal women is very rare nowadays.

Thinking only at gyno and bloating as estrogen side effects is really only looking at the benign side effects.

If you continue cycling like this your androgen receptors will down-regulate enough you will eventually turn into a woman.

none of you understand the benefits of estrogen at all, no offense. It's not the enemy like everyone claims it is

it has a linear relationship at stimulating protein synthesis in connective tissue, so it keeps you injury free. It also stimulates growth hormone production, stimulates muscle repair, prevents excessive muscle damage, and it also even helps your lipid profile.

again, if you're lean enough and have a good diet, you will almost certainly not experience any estrogen related side effects at all.

You are the idiot I'm referring to in my above post. Stop giving bad advise and spreading false information.

you're the dumbass. You dont even have a reason as to why I'm wrong, you're just spouting your worthless opinion.

[hammerheart]

none of you understand the benefits of estrogen at all, no offense. It's not the enemy like everyone claims it is

it has a linear relationship at stimulating protein synthesis in connective tissue, so it keeps you injury free. It also stimulates growth hormone production, stimulates muscle repair, prevents excessive muscle damage, and it also even helps your lipid profile.

again, if you're lean enough and have a good diet, you will almost certainly not experience any estrogen related side effects at all.

You hit the wrong person, I actually need my Test to be quite high to aromatize into enough estrogen, I feel so bad from low E2 that I'd gladly take estrogen if I weren't able to obtain Test

The point is, estradiol is a very potent steroid and we males need only a tiny bit of it to function, with higher levels providing no further benefits

[brobeans443]

You hit the wrong person, I actually need my Test to be quite high to aromatize into enough estrogen, I feel so bad from low E2 that I'd gladly take estrogen if I weren't able to obtain Test

The point is, estradiol is a very potent steroid and we males need only a tiny bit of it to function, with higher levels providing no further benefits

except for the benefits that I pointed out while being on cycle. When you elevate 1 hormone class (androgens) without a concurrent increase in estrogen, is when you will see problems

[DocToxin8]

Since I can't get gyno I've run test without an AI.
Is there still no point in running an AI?
Ofcourse there is.
Is there any point to letting your E2 get a little higher?
I think it is, but with everything there's a risk to reward issue.
Yes estrogen has many negatives, and for all normal cycles I'd say include an AI.

Does that mean that I use an AI all the time?
No, and I've done lots of bloodwork while doing so,
and I've seen that E2 can get over the ref range and I've seen them within it.

[kelkel]

except for the benefits that I pointed out while being on cycle. When you elevate 1 hormone class (androgens) without a concurrent increase in estrogen, is when you will see problems

So I guess all the top doctors in the medical community, including the most influential in the HRT field are all wrong? But you are correct? More often or not guys on only HRT are prescribed low dose AI's to maintain a normal, healthy estrogen level, even when their T levels are in a normal range. Damn doctors don't know anything.

I guess this makes gyno, bloating, loss of libido, etc a healthy thing.

[hammerheart]

except for the benefits that I pointed out while being on cycle. When you elevate 1 hormone class (androgens) without a concurrent increase in estrogen, is when you will see problems

The wonderful CYCLE BENEFITS of oestrogen... now I've heard them all.

Good luck with your sex change. Is "beans" the size of your testicles?

Since I can't get gyno I've run test without an AI.
Is there still no point in running an AI?
Ofcourse there is.
Is there any point to letting your E2 get a little higher?
I think it is, but with everything there's a risk to reward issue.
Yes estrogen has many negatives, and for all normal cycles I'd say include an AI.

Does that mean that I use an AI all the time?
No, and I've done lots of bloodwork while doing so,
and I've seen that E2 can get over the ref range and I've seen them within it.

I'm on 200mg TE weekly, I've tried as low as .1mg anastrozole and felt like crap.

[Vash the Stampede]

none of you understand the benefits of estrogen at all, no offense. It's not the enemy like everyone claims it is

it has a linear relationship at stimulating protein synthesis in connective tissue, so it keeps you injury free. It also stimulates growth hormone production, stimulates muscle repair, prevents excessive muscle damage, and it also even helps your lipid profile.

again, if you're lean enough and have a good diet, you will almost certainly not experience any estrogen related side effects at all.




you're the dumbass. You dont even have a reason as to why I'm wrong, you're just spouting your worthless opinion.

You STUPID RETARD! If you took 5 mins to google the dangers and diseases linked to high estrogen, you will see that there is zero benefit to having elevated estrogen. Your stupidity is only matched by your arrogance and over blown sense of self importance.

Read Kelkel comment. The man knows a thousand times more than you will ever know, and he clearly states no benefit to elevated estrogen. As I said to you before, STOP SPREADING FALSE INFORMATION! ITS NOT FACTUAL! Its just your worthless opinion.

[AR's King Silabolin]

ive heard alot of misinformation from older guys who started using gear before the internet was around. I guess without this great online community, you only learned by word of mouth and magazines. The two things i hear the most is that an AI isnt neccesary unless you get gyno and that hcg is used for pct. is it correct to say that hcg should be used throughout an entire 12 week test e cycle, then for another 2 additional weeks until pct? Also, should the AI be used for that entire 14 weeks?

What is necessary?...no anchis is necessary. PCT isnt necessary. Lee Priest never did one single pct. Ive run over 20 cycles with no anchis or pct. When u quit u will loose it all and more nomatter what. Pct is just a delay.

But anchis canhelp u stop some of the sides. BP f.i. And some psycological issues. But necessary. I would say nop
Protein energy training rest and ARstimulation are necessary.

[Elvishk]

What is necessary?...no anchis is necessary. PCT isnt necessary. Lee Priest never did one single pct. Ive run over 20 cycles with no anchis or pct. When u quit u will loose it all and more nomatter what. Pct is just a delay.

But anchis canhelp u stop some of the sides. BP f.i. And some psycological issues. But necessary. I would say nop
Protein energy training rest and ARstimulation are necessary.

do you mean no pct between two cycles? feel it is danger...

[numbere]

I think this is an appropriate time for some George Carlin.

[AR's King Silabolin]

do you mean no pct between two cycles? feel it is danger...

Dangerous?...u think pct decreases hct, cleans liver and kidneys, lowers cholestrol and BP? Or washes your veins and arteries?

[hammerheart]

What is necessary?...no anchis is necessary. PCT isnt necessary. Lee Priest never did one single pct. Ive run over 20 cycles with no anchis or pct. When u quit u will loose it all and more nomatter what. Pct is just a delay.

But anchis canhelp u stop some of the sides. BP f.i. And some psycological issues. But necessary. I would say nop
Protein energy training rest and ARstimulation are necessary.

I will tell u a secret.

Not even AAS are "necessary".

[Vash the Stampede]

I will tell u a secret.

Not even AAS are "necessary".

Best comment in this thread! Love it! Hahaha

[AR's King Silabolin]

I will tell u a secret.

Not even AAS are "necessary".

Wrong!!!. Gains will not occure without aas.
Aas is necessary for gaining muscles as long ur not a newbi or 1 in a million.

[Mr.BB]

none of you understand the benefits of estrogen at all, no offense. It's not the enemy like everyone claims it is

it has a linear relationship at stimulating protein synthesis in connective tissue, so it keeps you injury free. It also stimulates growth hormone production, stimulates muscle repair, prevents excessive muscle damage, and it also even helps your lipid profile.

again, if you're lean enough and have a good diet, you will almost certainly not experience any estrogen related side effects at all.

Nobody said estrogen is an enemy. It is something that needs to be controlled on cycle (if you have an interest in your health).

Since you seem so knowledgeable on estrogen, at what value do you have your e2 when you run a cycle?

[cousinmuscles]

Wrong!!!. Gains will not occure without aas.
Aas is necessary for gaining muscles as long ur not a newbi or 1 in a million.

I kept gaining even after 13 years of training (on and off). Even with test levels of 375, I still made increases on my bench, deads et.c. It is only a personal preference that I started my cycle now, I want faster gains.

[Obs]

What is necessary?...no anchis is necessary. PCT isnt necessary. Lee Priest never did one single pct. Ive run over 20 cycles with no anchis or pct. When u quit u will loose it all and more nomatter what. Pct is just a delay.

But anchis canhelp u stop some of the sides. BP f.i. And some psycological issues. But necessary. I would say nop
Protein energy training rest and ARstimulation are necessary.

Jaysus! Sil! You are gonna give somone tits and tiny balls! Most.... not all but most people, will not have their natural production of testosterone return at all without pct. I have ran cycles back to back and without AI or hcg. It is much much smarter and safer to do it right though. Not everyone is like you and most arent. We all try to let you know how special you are every day buddy. You are thuper peshal!

[< <Samson> >]

This thread is a good example on how people don't listen or do real research.


So many just go by "whatever"


who needs an Ai < okay, you got this

[jstone]

A lot fo people now are saying estrogen should be kept at a certain ratio to your test. So when you up your total test into the 5k range your e2 should also be raised to maintain a certain ratio. They dont realize that there is a range for a reason, and it should be kept within that range. Men only require minimal estrogen, like a women requires minimal testosterone. Beans is just a dipshit. If people wont listen im al for them receiving the Darwin award. I will no longer try to help those to retarded to listen to facts.

before long were going to have kids stealing their menopausal moms estrogen/progesterone cream for gainzzz.

[Vash the Stampede]

A lot fo people now are saying estrogen should be kept at a certain ratio to your test. So when you up your total test into the 5k range your e2 should also be raised to maintain a certain ratio. They dont realize that there is a range for a reason, and it should be kept within that range. Men only require minimal estrogen, like a women requires minimal testosterone. Beans is just a dipshit. If people wont listen im al for them receiving the Darwin award. I will no longer try to help those to retarded to listen to facts.

before long were going to have kids stealing their menopausal moms estrogen/progesterone cream for gainzzz.

Jstone my homie! You took the words straight out my mouth. The truth shall set you free! Lol

[Mr.BB]

A lot fo people now are saying estrogen should be kept at a certain ratio to your test. So when you up your total test into the 5k range your e2 should also be raised to maintain a certain ratio. They dont realize that there is a range for a reason, and it should be kept within that range. Men only require minimal estrogen, like a women requires minimal testosterone. Beans is just a dipshit. If people wont listen im al for them receiving the Darwin award. I will no longer try to help those to retarded to listen to facts.

before long were going to have kids stealing their menopausal moms estrogen/progesterone cream for gainzzz.

One those you mentioned above wanted to cycle his gf bc pill LMAO