my next cycle

[devil-1986]

hi , my cycle will begin soon with deca , test c and win
my cycle schedule look like this :
week 1-12 test c 500 mg/week
week 1-12 deca 300-350 mg/week
week 1-14 aromasin 12.5 mg eod
week 1-12 caber .5 e3d
week 9-14 injec win 50 mg eod
week 11-14 hcg 500 iu two times per week
15-18 pct
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 50/50/25/25
my question is could i add HGH into my cycle ? if yes what about timing and dosing in safest range without any sides like organ enlargement, etc ?
my other question is what about drop my deca and win and do my cycle with test c and HGH ?
also my stat is :
31 yld male
12-13% bf
5'10"
200 lb
about 7 years hard work
any help i appreciate

[Euroholic]

Dont bother with hgh you need at least double that length to see gains. You should run your hcg from day 1 until 3 days before pct. stop your deca at week 10/11 if you like as to give her time to go before you start pct. and if you want you can drink your stanazol.

[AR's King Silabolin]

hi , my cycle will begin soon with deca , test c and win
my cycle schedule look like this :
week 1-12 test c 500 mg/week
week 1-12 deca 300-350 mg/week
week 1-14 aromasin 12.5 mg eod
week 1-12 caber .5 e3d
week 9-14 injec win 50 mg eod
week 11-14 hcg 500 iu two times per week
15-18 pct
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 50/50/25/25
my question is could i add HGH into my cycle ? if yes what about timing and dosing in safest range without any sides like organ enlargement, etc ?
my other question is what about drop my deca and win and do my cycle with test c and HGH ?
also my stat is :
31 yld male
12-13% bf
5'10"
200 lb
about 7 years hard work
any help i appreciate

Real hgh is expensive and hard to get. Add mk677 to it. Easy admin and cheap. Works better than u think. No sides.
12.5 mg twice a day is my protocol.
6 weeks on 2 weeks off etc

[songdog]

I would run test 2 weeks longer than the Deca.And the Caber run .25 EOD and as far as the HGH I am not a fan or master of it.I have read about it and talked to Marcus about it and with all the fakes and its sides I let it drop off my radar.And I would drop the Winny either bulk or cut not both.With this thought you could shoryen your cycle a few weeks.

[devil-1986]

I would run test 2 weeks longer than the Deca.And the Caber run .25 EOD and as far as the HGH I am not a fan or master of it.I have read about it and talked to Marcus about it and with all the fakes and its sides I let it drop off my radar.And I would drop the Winny either bulk or cut not both.With this thought you could shoryen your cycle a few weeks.

why drop winy tell me your opinion about it ? and my HGH is original and its pharm grade

[numbere]

Aromasin should be taken every day.

When using nandrolone you'd benefit from extending nolva use to six weeks.

Hcg should be used from day one until 2-3 days before starting PCT.

It would be a good idea to use test for at least a week or two longer than the nandrolone.

Winny is a cutting steroid and doesn't make sense to use it in this cycle.

I think you need to do more research before using gh.

Have you had post cycle blood work to see if you've recovered from your last cycle?

[songdog]

why drop winy tell me your opinion about it ? and my HGH is original and its pharm grade

You are bulking to gain muscle and you have increased your cals.And you must keep up the cals to keep new muscle gained.Too drop cals now could ruin your gains.

[ScotchGuard02]

why drop winy tell me your opinion about it ? and my HGH is original and its pharm grade

The Test C and Deca will retain water at volumize the muscle cells. Winny is will draw water out of your body to give you a leaner look. Go ahead and bulk with Test C and Deca and save the winny for a cutting cycle. If you want to run HGH with your cycle, I would recommend you start on HGH 3 months before you run your AAS cycle and run it for a month or two more after your PCT. Ideally, you want to be on HGH for 6 months before you run your AAS cycle and stay on it for 3 months after PCT. HGH's awesome stuff and the pre/post AAS cycle loading will help you get the maximum out of your AAS cycle and help you keep more of the gains.

[devil-1986]

is it good and effective to take baby aspirin ed while on cycle for prevention from high hematocrite and blood pressure ?

[devil-1986]

bump

[Jonbana]

like this cycle ive always ran winny at the end to drop the water weight

[tice1212]

Dont bother with hgh you need at least double that length to see gains. You should run your hcg from day 1 until 3 days before pct. stop your deca at week 10/11 if you like as to give her time to go before you start pct. and if you want you can drink your stanazol.

Damn! Perfect advice. I was thinking the same exact thing. If it going to run any hgh it will help if u did 6iu of colored tops 4iu am and 2iu pm. But will have to be ran for 6+months BUT saying that I found that I was experiencing good growth in month 2 and it just got better as time went on. Stayed lean thought a heavy bulk.

Drink the winny but I would drop it and use 40mg of dbol for 6 weeks in the beginning and I would up the deca to 400mg a week.

[tice1212]

like this cycle ive always ran winny at the end to drop the water weight

Drop water weight? Where? In ur joints! Lol. If u want to drop water weight take a little more a.i. that does the trick

[numbere]

This will be your third cycle right?

No offense but your last cycle was a train wreck.

It's kind of alarming how many times members have to tell you how to dose AIs.

Imo you should run a test cycle along with an oral because you're still getting your feet wet.

[Mr.BB]

is it good and effective to take baby aspirin ed while on cycle for prevention from high hematocrite and blood pressure ?

No, it does nothing to both hematocrit and blood pressure.

It just interferes with your blood clotting mechanism.

[devil-1986]

This will be your third cycle right?

No offense but your last cycle was a train wreck.

It's kind of alarming how many times members have to tell you how to dose AIs.

Imo you should run a test cycle along with an oral because you're still getting your feet wet.

ok , bro why i should run test only cycle ? and what would u recommend for my current cycle ?

[numbere]

ok , bro why i should run test only cycle ? and what would u recommend for my current cycle ?

No to give you an attitude but both those questions are answered I'm my last post.

This will be your third cycle right?

No offense but your last cycle was a train wreck.

It's kind of alarming how many times members have to tell you how to dose AIs.

Imo you should run a test cycle along with an oral because you're still getting your feet wet.

[devil-1986]

how long should ill waiting for test c ester to fully clear of my body ? 14 days or 18 days or more

[devil-1986]

can anybody answer my q ?^^^

[tice1212]

how long should ill waiting for test c ester to fully clear of my body ? 14 days or 18 days or more

Test c has a half live of 12 days so on day 13 it should be all out

[devil-1986]

Test c has a half live of 12 days so on day 13 it should be all out

thanks , should i take aromasin and caber both at the same time from first day of my pin ? my pin days are sat and thu

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Test c has a half live of 12 days so on day 13 it should be all out

That answer is wrong on two fronts.
You are wrong on the half life and you are wrong on how half lives work.

Test C has a half life of approximately 8 days.

Also, after one half life only half of the compound is gone.
Day 0 - 100%
Day 8 - 50%
Day 16 - 25%
Day 24 - 12.5%
Day 32 - 6.25%
Etc...

[oldnsedentary]

hi , my cycle will begin soon with deca , test c and win
my cycle schedule look like this :
week 1-12 test c 500 mg/week
week 1-12 deca 300-350 mg/week
week 1-14 aromasin 12.5 mg eod
week 1-12 caber .5 e3d
week 9-14 injec win 50 mg eod
week 11-14 hcg 500 iu two times per week
15-18 pct
nolva 40/40/20/20
clomid 50/50/25/25

If you are planning to PCT, I would not do Deca at all. Substitute NPP (same Nandralone hormone, shorter ester). If you decide to do deca anyway, you can forget PCT until you are 8 weeks out from your last Deca shot. Anything earlier is a waste of time. You can run low dose testosterone (150 mg a week) in the meantime while you are waiting for Deca to clear.

I love the results of Deca, but it sticks around forever.

Are you married? Your wife is not going to like you having erection problems for several weeks on end.

When I followed the typical internet advice back on my second cycle (hey, bro, drop Deca two weeks earlier than test!) I had a horrible, worst ever recovery. I actually got stronger throughout PCT. I foolishly thought this was because I was recovered. The real reason was that the Deca was still causing strength gains a month and more from last injection.

Deca hanging around in your system suppresses testosterone. You quite simply cannot recover until it is gone. This is a process of months, not days or weeks.

Ignore this advice at your own peril.

I later charted the decanoate ester half life, calendared all my shots, and calculated the half life of each and every one. The calculation showed 8 weeks. I used low dose (TRT level) testosterone and HCG while waiting those 8 weeks. Decent recovery that time.

Anyway, you have been warned. Deca is great, but once it is in you, it will hang out for a long, long, time.

[oldnsedentary]

On Deca:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21884791

A sustained suppression of LH, and FSH was observed for several months. The nandrolone urinary biomarker 19-NA was detectable several months after the last nandrolone intake and was correlated to the levels of LH and FSH. Testosterone abuse on the other hand was detectable only for a few weeks . . .

[charger69]

That answer is wrong on two fronts. You are wrong on the half life and you are wrong on how half lives work. Test C has a half life of approximately 8 days. Also, after one half life only half of the compound is gone. Day 0 - 100% Day 8 - 50% Day 16 - 25% Day 24 - 12.5% Day 32 - 6.25% Etc...

Are you stating that this is a first order reaction (1/2 life constant) or was this just a generic model for educational purposes? I am presently trying to find a relation between the 1/2 life and injection frequency. Little by little I am trying to put the puzzle together. You may be able to point me to some studies.

[oldnsedentary]

charger69, there are literally hundreds and hundreds of studies out there on testosterone half lives and blood levels. Google will get you there.

Non-scientific literature makes it much easier to understand, however:
http://www.anabolicsteroids-hormonek...acyarticle.pdf
Especially check out the chart on the last page.

[tice1212]

That answer is wrong on two fronts.
You are wrong on the half life and you are wrong on how half lives work.

Test C has a half life of approximately 8 days.

Also, after one half life only half of the compound is gone.
Day 0 - 100%
Day 8 - 50%
Day 16 - 25%
Day 24 - 12.5%
Day 32 - 6.25%
Etc...

Holy shit I'm an a$$hole. I'm super off. I don't know I thought that. For some reason I it was 12days. I have no clue why.

[devil-1986]

If you are planning to PCT, I would not do Deca at all. Substitute NPP (same Nandralone hormone, shorter ester). If you decide to do deca anyway, you can forget PCT until you are 8 weeks out from your last Deca shot. Anything earlier is a waste of time. You can run low dose testosterone (150 mg a week) in the meantime while you are waiting for Deca to clear.

I love the results of Deca, but it sticks around forever.

Are you married? Your wife is not going to like you having erection problems for several weeks on end.

When I followed the typical internet advice back on my second cycle (hey, bro, drop Deca two weeks earlier than test!) I had a horrible, worst ever recovery. I actually got stronger throughout PCT. I foolishly thought this was because I was recovered. The real reason was that the Deca was still causing strength gains a month and more from last injection.

Deca hanging around in your system suppresses testosterone. You quite simply cannot recover until it is gone. This is a process of months, not days or weeks.

Ignore this advice at your own peril.

I later charted the decanoate ester half life, calendared all my shots, and calculated the half life of each and every one. The calculation showed 8 weeks. I used low dose (TRT level) testosterone and HCG while waiting those 8 weeks. Decent recovery that time.

Anyway, you have been warned. Deca is great, but once it is in you, it will hang out for a long, long, time.

ok bro thanks alot for your usful info , no im not married , then according to this info should i drop deca and go with test only ? u think is this a better idea for me like numbere and other brothers which told me for my true second cycle ?
also ill waiting for your deca charted

[oldnsedentary]

ok bro thanks alot for your usful info , no im not married , then according to this info should i drop deca and go with test only ? u think is this a better idea for me like numbere and other brothers which told me for my true second cycle ?
also ill waiting for your deca charted

It is difficult for me to tell you to drop Deca because it works so damn well and is a great addition to a second cycle. Recovery, however, is a bitch.

NPP is nandrolone, but with a much shorter half life and thus a much quicker recovery.

If you do not want to source NPP, then run the Deca, but be prepared for an 8 week lag time from the last Deca injection until you begin PCT. This means probably low dosed testosterone (like 150 mg a week) for a couple months at the end of the cycle. Switch to testosterone propionate for the last two weeks to make recovery even quicker. Run HCG with the testosterone and then do your PCT as normal (clomid, aromasin). This makes recovery from Deca much easier in spite of the increased duration of being on the testosterone.

The problem with the standard advice is that it puts you in PCT when Deca is still active in your system and suppressing testosterone. That's stupid. It makes no sense whatsoever. Having experienced it firsthand both ways, I would urge you to learn from my experience.

Run the half life calculations yourself based on your anticipated injection schedule and see for yourself when Deca will be low enough not to be suppressive anymore. You will discover for yourself that the standard PCT recommendation for Deca is bullshit.

[numbere]

Run the half life calculations yourself based on your anticipated injection schedule and see for yourself when Deca will be low enough not to be suppressive anymore. You will discover for yourself that the standard PCT recommendation for Deca is bullshit.

I agree that OP should not be using nandrolone as this is his second cycle and he had bunk gear on his first.

However, the average person cannot come close to approximating how much exogenous nandrolone is in their system from deca injections.

Their is much more to the pharmacokinetics of a drug than just regular half life.

Even when calculating half life for a specific individual you need to know their volume of distribution and total body clearance rate.

There's also half life of the distribution phase (alpha half life) and half life for the elimination phase (beta half life).

Deca has a lot of carbon bonds (28 in total) that delay the time exogenous nandrolone is in your system.

Due to this longer elimination time the plasma half life and tissue half life are differ greatly, complicating the process even further.

[oldnsedentary]

numbere, good input, but good luck on figuring all of that out. I think the half life calculation is about as close as we can get to estimating clearance rates.

Anyway, none of those complicating factors is going to make the standard advice, "run testosterone two weeks longer than Deca" effective for recovery after a cycle running Deca. That timeline is just way too short.

[numbere]

numbere, good input, but good luck on figuring all of that out. I think the half life calculation is about as close as we can get to estimating clearance rates.

Anyway, none of those complicating factors is going to make the standard advice, "run testosterone two weeks longer than Deca" effective for recovery after a cycle running Deca. That timeline is just way too short.

If you want to make the statement that two weeks is not enough time for a cycle like dose of deca to clear your system that's completely valid and I agree.

In fairness I'll play devil's advocate by saying most advice on this form is to drop deca at lest two weeks before test.

Therefore when you add the two weeks off deca and a two week washout period for long estered test most on here are advising four weeks before starting PCT when using deca.

Again calculating amounts of exogenous hormone without reams of personalized lab data is extremely difficult for the average person and becomes more difficult the longer the ester.

For the sake of discussion lets imagin we have calculated the exact half life of deca, say twelve days, for an administered amout I'm an individual.

That calculated half life of twelve days is only applicable to the first round of decay.

This is due to the fact that esterified hormones are not radioactive isotopes.

Due to this after the first round of decay most drugs will be eliminated from your system in 2-3 half lives.

[devil-1986]

my last and first cycle was 6 weeks 100 mg/ml eod of test p only cycle and this blood work come from about 19 weeks ago and after my last pin test , i didn't run hcg and AI during that cycle

today after 19 weeks of my last shot and 15 weeks from my pct i get my pre second cycle blood work , my pct was clomid @ 75/75/50/50 nolva 40/40/20/20 i have two q :
1. am i recovered ? am i ready for my second cycle ? are my LH and FSH ok ? is both recovered ?
2. i worry about my liver enzymes(alt,ast) as u can see thats little high as their normal value , i run too many liv52, NAC but seems not much difference ,in my first pre cycle bloodwork everything was ok and good but at this im little worry , what should i do now with this condition ? is my liver ok and ready for a cycle ? and also i donate my blood about two months ago

[oldnsedentary]

If you want to make the statement that two weeks is not enough time for a cycle like dose of deca to clear your system that's completely valid and I agree.

In fairness I'll play devil's advocate by saying most advice on this form is to drop deca at lest two weeks before test.

Therefore when you add the two weeks off deca and a two week washout period for long estered test most on here are advising four weeks before starting PCT when using deca.

Again calculating amounts of exogenous hormone without reams of personalized lab data is extremely difficult for the average person and becomes more difficult the longer the ester.

For the sake of discussion lets imagin we have calculated the exact half life of deca, say twelve days, for an administered amout I'm an individual.

That calculated half life of twelve days is only applicable to the first round of decay.

This is due to the fact that esterified hormones are not radioactive isotopes.

Due to this after the first round of decay most drugs will be eliminated from your system in 2-3 half lives.

I do not want to go back and forth with you. I will just leave it at this. I followed the advice that you say "is most advice on this forum." It sucked.

I have also done it the other way that I advocate, which I acknowledged goes against the grain.

I have personally done it both ways, and I observed which method worked and which method did not. That is better than whichever advice is given out "most."

[TRA]

is it good and effective to take baby aspirin ed while on cycle for prevention from high hematocrite and blood pressure ?

Aspirin will do nothing to decrease either your blood pressure or your Hct. If you are concerned about keeping blood thin to prevent stroke/clots back way up and keep hemoglobin and hematocrit at normal range with blood donation and monitor blood pressure and use meds to control if necessary.

[oldnsedentary]

Do not worry about your AST and ALT. For one thing, exercise affects those numbers. I proved it to my doctor when I had numbers similar to yours. I took 4 days off exercise of any kind before the next test, voila! Normal.

For another thing, those markers have to be WAY higher than that to be a cause of concern, like multiples higher.

So do not lose any sleep over that. There is about zero chance you have a liver problem based off of those two markers alone.

Your testosterone number looks great! A few more cycles ought to beat it down some! LOL!

FSH and LH are normal, so . . .

[oldnsedentary]

Aspirin will do nothing to decrease either your blood pressure or your Hct. If you are concerned about keeping blood thin to prevent stroke/clots back way up and keep hemoglobin and hematocrit at normal range with blood donation and monitor blood pressure and use meds to control if necessary.

Yeah, hematocrit is going to stay up above 50 if you keep cycling.

Keep donating blood. Do double reds. If you really want to get it below 50 you are going to have to find two different sources of donation (and of course not tell them about each other, like two different mistresses).

[devil-1986]

I started my cycle this week and i had a feeling about Burning sensation in my sternum in everyday I get so irritated and it was about 10-20 seconds , going away quickly and comeback again what was it ? today i take my 12.5 mg of aromasin and about 6 hours after that this burning pain come back , is it come from aromasin ? also i had a little anxiety this week , i don't know which one cause that ? aromasin ,caber ,deca or test , what should i do ? maybe should drop aromasin and caber dosage , what do u think?

[devil-1986]

cycle update : today after i wake up , i was really feeling tired and didn't wanted to wake up ,now after 60 min im really tired too , maybe that's because i crush my E2 with aromasin or caber ,another thing i understood the reason of irritated , that's come from aromasin , what should i do ? should i taper down the dosages of caber and aromasin ?

[hammerheart]

cycle update : today after i wake up , i was really feeling tired and didn't wanted to wake up ,now after 60 min im really tired too , maybe that's because i crush my E2 with aromasin or caber ,another thing i understood the reason of irritated , that's come from aromasin , what should i do ? should i taper down the dosages of caber and aromasin ?

I'd say low cortisol from crushed E2, caber is more prone to induce drowsiness than fatigue.

Do one thing at a time, taper AI then see how you do.