Can you really keep your steroid gains?

**MMA_Influenced** · 01-22-2017, 08:39 AM

Ive read online where it is claimed that you cant keep ANY steroid gains reguardless to if you reached your genetic potential or not. I find this very hard to believe.

For one I did a cycle recently and after it only lost 5 pounds total weight and maintained my waist line and measurements from that point (Ive been off over 2 months). Im literally just as strong maybe a smidge less than when I was "on". (Edit: oh and Im WAY stronger than before cycle)

It makes sense to me that you can keep steroid gains (perhaps even a bit past your genetic max natty potential) because Ive known for a while body building natty that maintaining gains is far easier than building gains.

Why are there people claiming you cant keep ANYTHING from steroids ? What do you guys think about this.

**600@50** · 01-22-2017, 09:01 AM

I think the key to keeping your gains is to continue to eat to maintain the mass you've acquired. So many go back to their previous routines. If you have gained 10 lbs then you must eat more to keep those 10 lbs. I think the training is less of a factor as it's volume and intensity vary over time. But you must eat to maintain what you've gained.

**MMA_Influenced** · 01-22-2017, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by 600@50

I think the key to keeping your gains is to continue to eat to maintain the mass you've acquired. So many go back to their previous routines. If you have gained 10 lbs then you must eat more to keep those 10 lbs. I think the training is less of a factor as it's volume and intensity vary over time. But you must eat to maintain what you've gained.

I agree with this... if your fairly lean and your losing weight from not eating enough it stands to reason a lot will be muscle. If your eating enough to maitain your weight and training it seems more reasonable you could maintain your muscles.

Like I said.. Ive seen it far easier to maintain than gain. If your pumping the iron and eating healthy and sufficient not to be losing weight I see no reason why you would start to lose muscle.

**AR's King Silabolin** · 01-22-2017, 10:33 AM

It depends. If your hpta is working well you can keep a lot when going "natty". But when its fucked, like mine, u pretty much loose most of it cause the muscles will be washed down the toilet when going under 400. Unless u start trt or a cruise.

**Jonbana** · 01-22-2017, 11:02 AM

you can keep anything below your genetic potential , above genetics you need gear to hold them

**Proximal** · 01-22-2017, 11:15 AM

Does being on TRT between cycles not count in this discussion, want to input if TRT is ok. Thanks.

**01dragonslayer** · 01-22-2017, 01:03 PM

For me I need to work very hard to maintain my gains probaly because I'm not blessed the genetics that most of you freaks have.

To answer your question I have always been able to maintain some gains its just some need to be disciplined and work harder than others.

**01dragonslayer** · 01-22-2017, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Proximal

Does being on TRT between cycles not count in this discussion, want to input if TRT is ok. Thanks.

Hormone Replacement Therapy - Low Testosterone Treatment, Anti-Aging

**kelkel** · 01-22-2017, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by 600@50

I think the key to keeping your gains is to continue to eat to maintain the mass you've acquired. So many go back to their previous routines. If you have gained 10 lbs then you must eat more to keep those 10 lbs. I think the training is less of a factor as it's volume and intensity vary over time. But you must eat to maintain what you've gained.

Agree. Also, guys tend to train much harder and be much more disciplined when on cycle. Once off cycle many tend to suffer a lapse in intensity and discipline which puts them on the road to muscle loss.

Originally Posted by Proximal

Does being on TRT between cycles not count in this discussion, want to input if TRT is ok. Thanks.

Being on TRT is a big advantage as there's no lapse in T production, no HPTA worries, PCT etc.

**ScotchGuard02** · 01-22-2017, 04:00 PM

There's a physical limitation set by your genetics to which you can grow. If we were able to keep 50% of all gains made during a cycle, I'd be WAY over 300lbs of muscles right now. Physiologically, your body simply can't get any bigger than a limit set by genetics. Some guys can get bigger than others. The best we can do is to maximize our own individual potential. I'm really happy the way I look and my physical performance at 200lbs. I gain weight during a cycle and get back to 200lbs over time. Why do I keep cycling if I don't want to get any bigger? Well, I love the "I can conquer the world!" feeling when I'm on a cycle and the awesome strength gains (even a temporary gains in strength is a great boost to the ego). Plus, as I get on in age the cycles keeps my skin tight and give me the vitality of a much younger man.

**MMA_Influenced** · 01-22-2017, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

There's a physical limitation set by your genetics to which you can grow. If we were able to keep 50% of all gains made during a cycle, I'd be WAY over 300lbs of muscles right now. Physiologically, your body simply can't get any bigger than a limit set by genetics. Some guys can get bigger than others. The best we can do is to maximize our own individual potential. I'm really happy the way I look and my physical performance at 200lbs. I gain weight during a cycle and get back to 200lbs over time. Why do I keep cycling if I don't want to get any bigger? Well, I love the "I can conquer the world!" feeling when I'm on a cycle and the awesome strength gains (even a temporary gains in strength is a great boost to the ego). Plus, as I get on in age the cycles keeps my skin tight and give me the vitality of a much younger man.

Fair enough. Btw how long does it take you to get back down to 200?

**jaysath** · 01-22-2017, 06:59 PM

Two main components play a role in this; energy intake and hormone profile. If you are eating enough food and taking care of pct then your body isn't going to atrophy lean mass unless it absolutely has to. Obviously if you're a top tier bodybuilder with a ton of mass it's going to be a lot harder to keep that on because it is so unnatural. Us not so IFBB pro guys don't have to worry as much. I have been off for 10 months now and all of my measurements are the same as well as weight. Honestly before I was terrified of being off haha but yeah man don't surprised if you come off and hold on to all that hard work.

**jaysath** · 01-22-2017, 07:01 PM

also If you want to keep the gains you have to keep the weights HEAVY give them a reason to stay

**ScotchGuard02** · 01-23-2017, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by MMA_Influenced

Fair enough. Btw how long does it take you to get back down to 200?

Every cycle I run is a bulking cycle. I diet back down to 200lbs. It normally takes me about 12 to 16 weeks to get cut up.

**Ashop** · 01-23-2017, 03:01 PM

Many people lose their gains because they start slacking off on their training and diet when the come off the cycle.

**hussainalab** · 01-23-2017, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by MMA_Influenced

Ive read online where it is claimed that you cant keep ANY steroid gains reguardless to if you reached your genetic potential or not. I find this very hard to believe.

For one I did a cycle recently and after it only lost 5 pounds total weight and maintained my waist line and measurements from that point (Ive been off over 2 months). Im literally just as strong maybe a smidge less than when I was "on". (Edit: oh and Im WAY stronger than before cycle)

It makes sense to me that you can keep steroid gains (perhaps even a bit past your genetic max natty potential) because Ive known for a while body building natty that maintaining gains is far easier than building gains.

Why are there people claiming you cant keep ANYTHING from steroids? What do you guys think about this.

You will not keep 100% from what ypu have gained but you can keep 60-80% from it if your diet is perfect and Pct to return you test level to normal range

Also some studies showed that when u use HGH during pct it helps to keep most of your gains.. i didn't try it and its just studies

**600@50** · 01-23-2017, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Proximal

Does being on TRT between cycles not count in this discussion, want to input if TRT is ok. Thanks.

I can tell you for a fact that being on TRT makes it easier to keep the gains you make when cycling.

**MMA_Influenced** · 01-24-2017, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

Every cycle I run is a bulking cycle. I diet back down to 200lbs. It normally takes me about 12 to 16 weeks to get cut up.

Wow.. this is interesting thanks for responding.. 2 thoughts:

1. How much do you weigh around when you finish the bulk.
2. If you eat enough calories to maintain that weight are you saying your body would start to soften up and lose muscle/gain fat?

**MMA_Influenced** · 01-24-2017, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by jaysath

Two main components play a role in this; energy intake and hormone profile. If you are eating enough food and taking care of pct then your body isn't going to atrophy lean mass unless it absolutely has to. Obviously if you're a top tier bodybuilder with a ton of mass it's going to be a lot harder to keep that on because it is so unnatural. Us not so IFBB pro guys don't have to worry as much. I have been off for 10 months now and all of my measurements are the same as well as weight. Honestly before I was terrified of being off haha but yeah man don't surprised if you come off and hold on to all that hard work.

I can attest to this first hand. Real quick so I can add to this and show people what is possible.. so the body Im shooting for right now is an athletic and muscular body type. Not overly bulky.

So I have been off cycle for 2 months and purposely cut down 5 pounds of late (I wanted to cut but not cut too fast because of paranoia of losing gains... I did more of a maintainence cut). I have only lost 1/4 inch of the bicep and my waistline acctually shrunk a half inch as well. So clearly I kept damn near everything.

I think when you push the limits is when you really lose after a cycle. Also I was on a tren cycle so I really didnt have much water weight.. really none that I saw to lose.

**marcus300** · 01-24-2017, 04:40 AM

Yes you can -

Not cycled for 2.5yrs and still 260lbs

**DocToxin8** · 01-24-2017, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Yes you can -

Not cycled for 2.5yrs and still 260lbs

I agree that you'll be able to keep most if not all, and that it will depend on several factors. I also don't think there's a clear "genetic limit", but some guys do keep more than others, just like they become bigger in the first place.

2 things listed I agree with are 1) caloric input and 2) hormone profile.

F.ex, Marcus, you're on TRT right?
That would mean you keep your T levels in the high normal range I assume.
If you were not on TRT, would your natty levels be as high, with your size?
What I mean is, the HPTA will have to output more to keep T levels at 1000 if you are 150kg of muscle than if you're 80kg.
Don't know if this will come into play or not, just had some lingering thought that I've heard about T levels and increased muscle mass.

Regardless, if on TRT, I suspect your T levels might be a tad bit higher than natty? And I would think that would factor in a little.

But for the most part I'd think as long as the HPTA functions well,
and you eat a ton, keeping gains might be possible.
(With some individual variance ofcourse)

I base this on muscle memory.
We know if you've reached a certain size it's easier to reach that again,
as the muscle fiber will have a higher number of cell nuclei. (This higher level of protein synthesis)
And muscle memory would happen whether the gains were made naturally or not.

**MMA_Influenced** · 01-24-2017, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Yes you can -

Not cycled for 2.5yrs and still 260lbs

Wow.. thats impressive congrats.. seriously.

I wish someone here could explain this guy.. he has apparently a lot of cycle experience and being around people who do. He has like 150k subscribers in youtube and claims you can literally keep zero gains from steroid use . https://youtu.be/5aRx5DhlI88

**01dragonslayer** · 01-24-2017, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by 600@50

I can tell you for a fact that being on TRT makes it easier to keep the gains you make when cycling.

I concur.

**marcus300** · 01-24-2017, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by MMA_Influenced

Wow.. thats impressive congrats.. seriously.

I wish someone here could explain this guy.. he has apparently a lot of cycle experience and being around people who do. He has like 150k subscribers in youtube and claims you can literally keep zero gains from steroid use . https://youtu.be/5aRx5DhlI88

I said it tongue in cheek - but let me expand a little. Your not going to keep huge amounts of gains in your older yrs things what keep them get in the way like injuries and lifestyle etc. Will you ever go back to how you looked pre cycle no you wont if you can keep a good level of intense training and your diet is in order to support your gains. But your not going to keep that steroid look for yrs and yrs things slowly reduce like most things with age. Ive kept a lot of my size due to my trt DOC was right

but it was also my training and mindset but I can see things slipping away every year because you simple cant keep up the amount of hardwork what is needed over yrs and yrs while getting older. I wont ever be that skinny kid before I started training though my body has changed but I wont either keep that huge steroid look

**AR's King Silabolin** · 01-24-2017, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I said it tongue in cheek - but let me expand a little. Your not going to keep huge amounts of gains in your older yrs things what keep them get in the way like injuries and lifestyle etc. Will you ever go back to how you looked pre cycle no you wont if you can keep a good level of intense training and your diet is in order to support your gains. But your not going to keep that steroid look for yrs and yrs things slowly reduce like most things with age. Ive kept a lot of my size due to my trt DOC was right

but it was also my training and mindset but I can see things slipping away every year because you simple cant keep up the amount of hardwork what is needed over yrs and yrs while getting older. I wont ever be that skinny kid before I started training though my body has changed but I wont either keep that huge steroid look

What would happen then if you managed to reach a level healthwize that "allowed" you to do a couple of grams ew and growth again?

Im not that much younger than u but i stil feel i can defeat my prime if i manage to tune in the rigth cycle.
And i ran some heavy drolcycles in my mid 20s and came in with 124 kg and abs and 350 kg in deadlift.
(10 years prior to the youtubeera u fell in love with

)

**marcus300** · 01-24-2017, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Silabolin

What would happen then if you managed to reach a level healthwize that "allowed" you to do a couple of grams ew and growth again?

Im not that much younger than u but i stil feel i can defeat my prime if i manage to tune in the rigth cycle.
And i ran some heavy drolcycles in my mid 20s and came in with 124 kg and abs and 350 kg in deadlift.
(10 years prior to the youtubeera u fell in love with

)

You saying you haven't reached your best/peak yet at your age?

**Nephets** · 01-24-2017, 11:11 AM

I would say most people hit a lifestyle limit well before any genetic limit.

**DocToxin8** · 01-24-2017, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Nephets

I would say most people hit a lifestyle limit well before any genetic limit.

This is very true. I feel that is the case for myself also at the moment.
I know I can pack on a few more kgs, but to do so I need more rest and more food. (I eat all the time, but since I don't get enough rest, and walk a lot, I could still need even more food)
And that's me being not natural.
But the same basics apply, natural or not,
It's just that with gear you usually will gain more and get a little further before lifestyle issues stop you.

When it comes to keeping gains.
I've quit AAS (and eventually stopped training also) for a couple of years, or at one time for just one year.
If I take the one year stop as an example first;
I didn't only stop AAS (After being on for 3 years), with only a primobolan taper as "PCT" (this was long ago, and tapering down as what we did then),
but I quit training and was working quite intensely in a stressful job.
So, just imagine the worst circumstances possible for keeping muscles.
I lost weight, initially just water ofcourse, and then fat and muscle.
Since I ate much less I became more cut even without training, but I had a hectic lifestyle, and all the muscles that still remained burned energy.
After about one year I was "skinny" again, but not like before.
If someone asked me to flex my biceps they were impressed, (they were actually quite blown away because they often didn't know that I had been training)
When I started training again one year later, I gained faster than ever.
I did start with 250mg test e pr week almost from day one, but I gained like I was using 10x that amount. In 6 weeks I wasn't far away from when I quit.
Think I gained more than 10kgs in 3 months/12 weeks.

When I quit training for several years, I never became a "skinny" boy again.
Even without training it took a very long time to lose muscle (some initial loss happened fast, then it slowed down), and after some time I'd say the loss was very slow, and a very low amount of training would probably sufficed to keep it at that point.

Some years ago I underwent a very serious infection and treatment.
In two months I lost 14kgs.
Well, I didn't regain it quite as fast, but not far from it.

And while I've regained my weight with AAS, the dose was often just 250mg test e pr week. While this is about double the TRT dose, it does show that when regaining lost muscle, it's a lot easier than building "new".

**Ashop** · 01-24-2017, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Nephets

I would say most people hit a lifestyle limit well before any genetic limit.

Most definitely,,,I agree 100%

**bobtail** · 01-25-2017, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by 600@50

I can tell you for a fact that being on TRT makes it easier to keep the gains you make when cycling.

Absolutely! Your really just blasting and cruising like the pros do at that point.
I agree with the group: it's mostly diet. Got to keep eating. The truth is let's say you gained 10#, that means you have to eat more just to maintain that weight, right?