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Thread: Winstrol injections

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    Winstrol injections

    Hello guys,
    I'm planning my maintenance / reconstruction spring cycle that will begin in 2 months:
    8 weeks low dose of Test prop / winstrol .
    I've never used injectable winstrol, but this time I'm curious to try it.
    In your opinion or experience it is better to inject 50 mg per day or 100 mg every other day? and which injection sites should I use? The buttocks only are ok? or is it better be injected into other sites also (deltoid, quadriceps, pectorals)?
    Around the web it reads many experiences of pain caused by winstrol injections, but also good localized growth in specific injection sites ...
    Someone has direct experience?

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    Ive tried it is all i can say and it was painful..i just drank it instead

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

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    Injectable winstrol is much better than the oral version IMO.
    That is if you get a good product.

    The particle size will determine how long the depot action is.
    Last time I used it was winstrol from Malay Tiger, and particles were so big one needed a 23G to push it through.
    I felt even just 2 injects a week was plenty, but EOD even better.
    Felt no PIP at all. Often did SubQ injects also.

    With the Depot version I don't get the back ache (blasted kidneys feeling),
    and it's just way milder in side effects IMO.
    Ofcourse, I only used 150mg a week, which would be mild anyways,
    but using 20mg ED orally can give me some sides which the depot didn't.

    As for site specific growth, nah, don't think so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Injectable winstrol is much better than the oral version IMO.
    That is if you get a good product.

    The particle size will determine how long the depot action is.
    Last time I used it was winstrol from Malay Tiger, and particles were so big one needed a 23G to push it through.
    I felt even just 2 injects a week was plenty, but EOD even better.
    Felt no PIP at all. Often did SubQ injects also.

    With the Depot version I don't get the back ache (blasted kidneys feeling),
    and it's just way milder in side effects IMO.
    Ofcourse, I only used 150mg a week, which would be mild anyways,
    but using 20mg ED orally can give me some sides which the depot didn't.

    As for site specific growth, nah, don't think so.
    Thanks for your answer,
    I think I can choose in many brands of of winstrol (es. Zambon 50 mg / 1 ml or Genesis Stanozolol 100 mg / ml and many orhers...)
    so do you think I can inject EOD in the buttocks only, right?

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    Yes few years ago water based steroids always hurt more than oil but act more quickly and breakdown faster good for getting cut.
    There no such thing as localised effects i wish the larger the muscle the less problem safe and sterile injections always. Good luck mate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestoSuper View Post
    Thanks for your answer,
    I think I can choose in many brands of of winstrol (es. Zambon 50 mg / 1 ml or Genesis Stanozolol 100 mg / ml and many orhers...)
    so do you think I can inject EOD in the buttocks only, right?
    No, rotate sites. EOD injections in one place is never a good idea.
    If u can truly get the real human grade Zambon Winstrol then hell yeah!
    But I would be very wary with such a product.
    (Fake comes to mind, and there are fakes virtually identical to the real,
    just without any stanozolol in them)

    I've always been careful with Winstrol from UGLs, as water based are harder to make "clean" without throwing in loads of shit like mercury. (Thiomersal)
    But the Malay Tiger shit contained Thiomersal and seemed OK, but I never did a blood test to check mercury levels.
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    ok.. I believe that I can access the original stuff ...
    then alternated right and left buttock EOD is not good? In deltoid is good?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    No, rotate sites. EOD injections in one place is never a good idea.
    If u can truly get the real human grade Zambon Winstrol then hell yeah!
    But I would be very wary with such a product.
    (Fake comes to mind, and there are fakes virtually identical to the real,
    just without any stanozolol in them)

    I've always been careful with Winstrol from UGLs, as water based are harder to make "clean" without throwing in loads of shit like mercury. (Thiomersal)
    But the Malay Tiger shit contained Thiomersal and seemed OK, but I never did a blood test to check mercury levels.
    ok.. I believe that I can access the original stuff ...
    then alternated right and left buttock EOD is not good? In deltoid is good?

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    If you use r & l buttock + r & l delts that's 4 sites, and since the glutes are big and unlikely to hit the exact same spot each time I'd say you'd be good yes.

    But with ever increasing more injections you should like into expanding your repertoire of injection sites. An easy one to include as well are thighs/quads.
    They're easy and big muscles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    If you use r & l buttock + r & l delts that's 4 sites, and since the glutes are big and unlikely to hit the exact same spot each time I'd say you'd be good yes.

    But with ever increasing more injections you should like into expanding your repertoire of injection sites. An easy one to include as well are thighs/quads.
    They're easy and big muscles.
    Yes, when I inject into the buttocks I utilize the upper lateral quadrant, so I can change a bit the position several times within that area, by not inject in the same spot.. ok injecting EOD I think 4 sites are more than sufficient.. i will consider quads also.
    Thank you very much for informations!
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    Although I have heard not to mix water base with oil base, i always mix winstrol with my test otherwise way too many injections. I have not had any issues.
    The brand of winnie makes a big difference. I was told the way that they manufacture it makes the difference. I took this one brand in the delt and could not raise my arm for like 3-4 days. I thought that I must have injected incorrectly so the next one I went to my glutes.... Difficult to sit for 3-4 days. Could not workout the area of injection during that time. Damn it hurt.
    I purchased a different brand and had no issues. This was from Australia and had a picture of a kangaroo on the box.
    I am convinced that the more frequent injections, the better results and the less the sides even for long esthers like decca.
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    Actually I've often mixed winstrol and oil based and find the object to be smoother that way. F.ex I could use a smaller needle to inject without clogging when I mixed winstrol with some oil based the last time, as particle size were big. Whether that prolongs the action of the winstrol I'm not sure, don't think so, at least not noticeably.

    But why people mix hcg and test f.ex I don't know. I'm sure it can be done,
    but why bother? The hcg is such a small nice SubQ inject anyways.
    And I wouldn't want to risk fucking with its absorption time either.
    But I might be totally off here, but since I don't know I choose not to.

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    So do you think it could be mixed 100 mg of test prop oil base with 100 mg of winstrol water base in the same syringe without any problems?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestoSuper
    So do you think it could be mixed 100 mg of test prop oil base with 100 mg of winstrol water base in the same syringe without any problems?
    I do not have any problems.. The only thing that I would be cautious of is your reaction to the Winnie at the beginnng. The brand (really how they manufacture it), makes a big difference to me. If you have unbearable pain, it is not the winnie, it is the brand. Maybe I used a brand that was so different, but the vets on here knew what the problem was so I am sure that the brand that I used was not the only brand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    I do not have any problems.. The only thing that I would be cautious of is your reaction to the Winnie at the beginnng. The brand (really how they manufacture it), makes a big difference to me. If you have unbearable pain, it is not the winnie, it is the brand. Maybe I used a brand that was so different, but the vets on here knew what the problem was so I am sure that the brand that I used was not the only brand.
    what are the best brands for injectable winstrol ?
    I could access Zambon, Genesis, Body Research, Taiger pharma, Eurochem ...
    or, what brand is bad according to your experience?
    Is more legit the 50 mg / ml vial or the 100 mg/ml multivial?

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    Stanazol was the only thing that gave me some pip so remember you can drink it if you wish. Will need to up the dose a bit to account for the breakdown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestoSuper View Post
    what are the best brands for injectable winstrol ?
    I could access Zambon, Genesis, Body Research, Taiger pharma, Eurochem ...
    or, what brand is bad according to your experience?
    Is more legit the 50 mg / ml vial or the 100 mg/ml multivial?
    I think mine was called "RWA" or "RWR" something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euroholic View Post
    Stanazol was the only thing that gave me some pip so remember you can drink it if you wish. Will need to up the dose a bit to account for the breakdown.
    by drinking the results on the body are the same as injecting?

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    Yea well its the same compound. Injections will always be sort of better. But if you drink it You will just have to up your dosage to account for liver breakdown. Some people whould say tho that if you wanted to drink it you may as well buy the tabs. So each his own.

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    The brand that was bad for me was astrovet, but I am sure that there are more. I get great results from astrovet, but winnie is a negative.
    I cannot remember the brand that was acceptable, but was from Australia and has a kangaroo. I just ask for the kangaroo and get what Im looking for. I adapt to the providers. Hahahaha
    I do not like the oral because of the effect on the liver and it is much more expensive ( so I'm told)

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    I imagine anyway that drinking stress the liver more than injecting ... at this point I have available winny tabs 10 mg each, maybe they are better!? I would take it with Liv 52 eventually, 50 mg/day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestoSuper View Post
    I imagine anyway that drinking stress the liver more than injecting ... at this point I have available winny tabs 10 mg each, maybe they are better!? I would take it with Liv 52 eventually, 50 mg/day.
    I've always preferred the tabs - and both injectable winny and oral winny(17aa 5a reduced) pass through the liver at the same rate it's dose dependent and duration that will determine how stressed your liver will get.... unless it's it's the 'pyrazol' route(c17 methylated), which the first pass doesn't go directly through the liver... the 17aa 5alpha reduced route will effect the liver in the same way... but if you remove 4c 5c it turns to a pyrazol route very tricky...

    Also, due to its active life I'd be pinning, drinking or taking tabs daily imho!

    Read up on this and its differences -

    https://thinksteroids.com/articles/w...vs-injectable/
    Last edited by NACH3; 01-30-2017 at 08:10 AM.

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    certainly I would assume winstrol daily, 50 mg daily.

    At the moment I have available this oral winstrol brand (yellow square tabs at 10 mg each)

    Winstrol injections-img_20170103_123755.jpgWinstrol injections-img_20170103_123806.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestoSuper View Post
    certainly I would assume winstrol daily, 50 mg daily.

    At the moment I have available this oral winstrol brand (yellow square tabs at 10 mg each)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Imo yes! 50mgs/Daily is a very common dose (however it's extremely hepatoxic) whenever I ran oral winny I ran it daily... even with a 8-9 hour active life I got the same results taking it in the am b4 my w/o's then splitting it... although it's certainly not uncommon to split up your daily dose 2x/day
    What liver supp(s) are you planning to run with this and how long did you plan on running it?

    Did you read that link - many think injectable winny will not pass through the liver the same way oral tabs are taken - they're is one different route that I went over that c17 methylated group(pyrazol) will not pass the first oral route through the liver but it's a totally different chemical structure w/different carbon bonds removed

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    Imo yes! 50mgs/Daily is a very common dose (however it's extremely hepatoxic) whenever I ran oral winny I ran it daily... even with a 8-9 hour active life I got the same results taking it in the am b4 my w/o's then splitting it... although it's certainly not uncommon to split up your daily dose 2x/day
    What liver supp(s) are you planning to run with this and how long did you plan on running it?

    Did you read that link - many think injectable winny will not pass through the liver the same way oral tabs are taken - they're is one different route that I went over that c17 methylated group(pyrazol) will not pass the first oral route through the liver but it's a totally different chemical structure w/different carbon bonds removed
    Yes I'm planning to take 50 mg per day divided into 2/3 doses (every 8 hours).
    Together I take Liv 52 tablets (2 tablets during lunch and two during dinner) for the entire duration of winstrol + 2 other weeks.

    No I was not able to open the link above! but I think it's interesting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestoSuper View Post
    Yes I'm planning to take 50 mg per day divided into 2/3 doses (every 8 hours).
    Together I take Liv 52 tablets (2 tablets during lunch and two during dinner) for the entire duration of winstrol + 2 other weeks.

    No I was not able to open the link above! but I think it's interesting...
    Here's the article long but interesting -- also NAC, imho, should be taken for liver support even when using injectables(oils)... liv-52 is ok too but I'd add in NAC as well...

    You are here: Home / Steroid Articles / Winstrol – Oral versus Injectable (More Different Than You Think!)
    Winstrol – Oral versus Injectable (More Different Than You Think!)
    June 1, 2006 By Anthony Roberts 2 Comments

    I tend to shy away from straight “information” articles- in other words, I’ve never written the “How Androgens Work” article, because I’ve read it several times by several authors, and I really have nothing to add. Gene Transcription and Androgen Receptor Action has been written about over, and over, ad nauseum. All of the articles I’ve read on the topic are well written and well- they’re all the same. Don’t get me wrong, all of the articles which discuss the topic are very informative, but when you’re done reading them, you don’t really have anything you can “use” in your next cycle.

    And I’m sure you know the difference between orals and injectables, but do yourself a favor and read this article, because I’m going to explain some things in here that you can use in your next cycle. Actually, I’m going to explain how you can use Winstrol (Stanozolol ) as either an oral or injectable, and get a very different set of effects from the same drug- depending on which route of administration you choose to utilize.

    First, lets go over the basics of Winstrol, so we’re all on the same page here.

    Winstrol is a steroid derived from the base structure of Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is just testosterone which has been 5alpha-reduced, meaning it has had the c4-5 double bond removed by two hydrogen atoms. This is very interesting from a chemical/biological standpoint. Once this bond is removed, testosterone has become DHT, and DHT is the body’s most potent androgen. DHT has a slew of beneficial effects which are more pronounced than the hormone it’s created out of. DHT is able to increase androgen receptor proliferation for almost 24 full hours (1) DHT also has profound effects on the Central Nervous System (CNS), and this is why we often see profoundly increased aggression with athletes who are using DHT derivatives such as Masteron (which has a deceivingly low anabolic and androgenic rating). As an added benefit, DHT can not aromatize (convert via the aromatase enzyme) into estrogen. It’s also noteworthy that the injectable version of Winstrol is actually the same exact thing as the oral- it’s just micronized Stanozolol powder suspended in water (or sometimes oil).

    So what we have in Winstrol is DHT with two modifications- an added c17 methylation, and a very weird “pyrazol” group. The c17 methylation has been added in order to allow Winstrol to survive oral ingestion and the subsequent first pass through the liver. The pyrazol group is a bit weirder- what this means to you and I is that it has another whole “ring” attached to the four ring Steran Nucleus of DHT. Take a look over at the lower left portion of the two molecules below, and you’ll notice that Winstrol has an added cyclopentane (5 sided) group (the pyrazol group):

    DHT Winstrol
    DHT Winstrol
    When we really take a look at Winstrol, the anabolic rating of this product is very high (320% that of testosterone) as compared to its androgenic actions (30% of testosterone). Despite this, Winstrol is really a disappointing drug for size gains. What we typically see with this stuff is some pretty decent strength gains and some nice fat loss if the user isn’t too sloppy with their diet. Not many people report huge weight gains off of Stanozolol. Although many drugs which bind tightly to the androgen receptor are suspected to exhibit their at least some of their lipolytic (fat-burning) effects through receptor binding affinity. The effects of androgens on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells.(2), Winstrol remains a potent cutting drug, despite the fact that it has a relatively weak AR binding ability (3). What this tells me is that there’s some stuff going on with regards to Winstrol’s mechanism of action, which doesn’t involve androgen receptor mediated effects. Still, Winstrol is a very potent compound for enhancing protein synthesis (4-5 ) .

    As previously discussed, it’s derived from DHT, and DHT is known to have ant-estrogenic effects (6) and Winstrol itself also has anti-progestenic properties (in at least some cases, where it may “block” that receptor) (7). So I think it’s safe to say that some of the “hard” look you can get in your physique from Winstrol is because of it’s ability to inhibit estrogen and progesterone- known culprits in making a physique appear smooth. Unfortunately, since it is 17aa, it is also liver toxic, especially more so when you inject it and it is subject to what is known as the “first pass” through the liver. The difference between taking oral vs. injectable Winstrol, even though it’s technically the same drug, is how and when your body metabolizes it. When you consume a drug orally, that drug is absorbed from the Gastrointestinal tract, where it then passes via the portal vein into the liver -where some drugs are metabolised. This “first pass” can mean that only a certain portion of the drug reaches your body’s bloodstream. As previously discussed, a 17aa has been attached to Winstrol to allow a sizeable portion to survive this metabolism.

    First pass metabolism can occur in both the gut and the liver, and where this happens can vary with different drugs. First pass metabolism actually occurs in your gut for some drugs and in the liver for others. Once it has been metabolized, it enters the bloodstream. It’s important to note that when a blood is metabolized in the Gastrointestinal tract, the blood leaving the Gastrointestinal tract does not go right to the heart, but actually still passes through liver via the hepatic portal vein and then ultimately returns to circulation via the hepatic vein. The liver is your body’s filtration unit, and removes large quantities of nutrients, dangerous toxins (or fun toxins, depending on what they are) and other substances from the blood.

    So as you can see, when you take an oral steroid such as Winstrol, undergoes a first-pass metabolism in the both the intestines as well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more or less totally intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is through this first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood until it is acquired by another tissue, such as skeletal muscle. Now, if the drug reaches the liver again, it may undergo what is cleverly known as “second-pass” metabolism. Of course, in the case of Winstrol, an injectable version is available, and when we compare the oral and injectable versions of Winstrol and their effects in your body, I think there’s some surprising differences. The injectable is (naturally) put right into your bloodstream and only undergoes the far less extensive second pass metabolism, while the oral must endure the gut and liver on it’s first pass before ending up in circulation.

    Now, here’s the interesting part: When you inject Winstrol, instead of taking it orally, you actually get more nitrogen retention (4) (and hence we can infer, more new muscle tissue is being built). SO if you are trying to use Winstrol to build new muscle tissue, the injectable version is going to be far superior to the Oral version. However, there are some advantages that the oral version has over the injectable, including a possible “synergy” with other drugs- but only (primarily) when taken orally.

    While in the liver, on it’s first pass, Winstrol is exposed to a variety of enzymes and proteins. To understand how a possible synergy between Winstrol and other steroids may be possible, a little background on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) is first necessary. For our purposes here, all we need to know is that SHBG is a glycoprotein produced in the liver, which binds to testosterone and makes it biologically unavailable to do all the things we want it to do- like building muscle. It serves to transport testosterone throughout the body, but while it remains bound to testosterone, the testosterone can not exert it’s anabolic effects.

    SHGB
    SHGB Adults
    Testosterone SHGB
    As you can surmise, a very large portion of the testosterone in your body is bound to SHBG. Wouldn’t it be great if we could lower SHBG? With Winstrol we can.

    A fairly conservative oral dose of .2mg/kg of Winstrol has been shown to lower SHBG by close to 50%. (8)For me (200lbs) this would mean I would only need around 18mgs/day to free up half of my SHBG bound testosterone! For my omnipresent and hypothetical “100kg bodybuilder”- only 20mgs would be needed (he’s 220 lbs for the metrically impaired among us). Now, with less SHBG floating around in me, my anabolic steroid cycle will be more effective, right? Right.

    But why can we only expect such a dramatic lowering of SHBG with the oral? Well, obviously, we’re taking advantage of the first pass through the liver, where we can have our Winstrol interact with SHBG where it’s produced- in the liver…without going through the bloodstream first.

    When we take a look at a study done comparing injectable vs. oral contraceptives, we find that the oral version at 70mgs/week (10mgs/day given orally) is more effective at affecting SHBG levels than 400mgs/week given via an injection! (9)In this study, testosterone undecanoate was given at a constant dose along with norestisterone (which raises SHBG). What we see is that when norestisterone is given orally, it produces a far greater effect on SHBG, than when it is administered via an injection. And this is even when the doses of the injectable are 4x higher!

    Here’s a chart, illustrating exactly what I’m talking about in this study, which I think suggests very strongly that injectable versions of drugs, when compared with the oral version, will have nowhere near as much of an effect on SHBG:

    Oral vs. injectable on SHBG

    Group I (Black Circles): Injections of 200 mg NETE at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18 plus injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 2, 6, 12, and 18 (T free window). Group II (White Diamonds): Injections of 1000 mg TU together with 400 mg NETE at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18. Group III (Grey Squares): Injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18 combined with daily oral 10 mg norethisterone acetate (NETE) from week 0 to 24 (9)
    Of course, in this study, they’re looking at oral vs. injectable versions of a SHBG raising drug- but what we can take away from it is that SHBG interaction with oral compounds is far more pronounced than it is with injectables.

    So lets take a small amount of Winstrol with our cycles, and free up some of those steroids we’re taking, right? Right!

    Unless of course, we’re talking about women here…I was recently asked why I recommend that women use the injectable version of Winstrol over the oral. I was asked this question by someone, who I assumed had a female friend who was considering using Winstrol. I then realized I was totally incorrect- not about Winstrol, but about the reason behind the question. You see…I saw a picture of the man who had first asked me the question, and it’s readily apparent to me that he probably doesn’t actually know any women. But still, his question is valid and bears repeating and answering here.

    I recommend that women avoid the oral version of this product for the same reason that men will find that it gives them an increased synergy and effectiveness in their cycles.

    When SHBG is lowered in women, there is more free testosterone floating around. And as we’ve seen, the oral is going to affect SHBG exponentially more than the injectable will. When we lower SHBG too much in women, we see a strong positive correlation with hyperandrogenism (10 ), and hirsuitism (abnormal growth of body hair), as well In fact, non-SHBG-bound testosterone may actually be the defining characteristic for identifying hyperandrogenism in women. In addition, low SHBG contributes to menstrual irregularity.(11)

    Finally, and (partially) anecdotally, we also see a greater incidence of clitoral enlargement and acne when the oral version of Winstrol is used by women instead of the injectable. The reasons for this are obvious- When we increase free testosterone by lowering SHBG, we increase the amount of testosterone which is able to be 5a-reduced to DHT. DHT is the primary culprit for steroid induced acne, and is also the hormone responsible for external genital enlargement. Clearly, this is why we see the increased level of clitoral hypertrophy as well as acne when oral Winstrol is used by women.

    We can also see increased acne when men use Winstrol orally, but these effects are relatively minor when a 2mg/kg dose is being used to increase the effectiveness of other steroids in a cycle. This isn’t carte blanche to go using Winstrol for an extended period of time under the excuse that it’s increasing the overall effectiveness of the cycle. Stanozolol has some of the worst liver toxicity (hepatoxicity) of any oral steroid on a mg for mg basis. In addition, it’s deleterious effects on your lipid profile (Cholesterol) are also very pronounced, even at low doses- 6mgs/day of Stanozolol can lower HDL (good cholesterol)by 33% and raise LDL (bad cholesterol) by 29% (12 ).

    So, hopefully, you’ve reached the end of this article and realized that Winstrol can be used in any cycle to increase the effectiveness of it, but that it must be used sparingly due to it’s possible hepatoxicity and lipid profile effecting properties. Still, when used in heavy testosterone-based profiles, at a dose that will cut your SHBG levels in half, it can increase you other steroids effectiveness quite a bit…but when maximal protein synthesis is wanted, you need to inject it.

    There you go…the differences between oral and injectable Winstrol, and how you can use either form to maximize your gains! And yes, Lyle, you can drink Winny

    References

    Neural Androgen Receptor Regulation: effects of androgen and antiandrogen. Lu S, Simon NG, Wang Y, Hu S, J Neurobiol 1999 Dec; 41(4):505-12

    Endocrinology. 1990 Feb;126(2):1229-34. Xu X, De Pergola G, Bjorntorp P

    Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.

    Can J Vet Res. 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8.

    J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1997 Sep 15;211(6):719-22

    MacDonald PC, Madden JD, Brenner PF, Wilson JD, Siiteri PK 1979 Origin of estrogen in normal men and in women with testicular feminization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 49:905–916

    Agents Actions. 1994 Mar;41(1-2):37-43.

    Sex Hormone Binding Globulin response to the Anabolic steroid: Stanozolol: Evidence for its suitability as a Biological Androgen Sensitivity test. J Clin Metab Endocrinol 68: 1195, 1989)

    The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87,No. 2 530-539. An Effective Hormonal Male Contraceptive Using Testosterone Undecanoate with Oral or Injectable Norethisterone Preparations Axel Kamischke, Tanja Heuermann, Kathrin Krüger, Sigrid von Eckardstein, Ilka Schellschmidt, Alexander Rübig and Eberhard Nieschlag Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the University (A.K., T.H., K.K., S.V.E., E.N.), D-48129 Münster, Germany; and Schering AG (I.S., A.R.), D-13342 Berlin, Germany

    Non-sex hormone-binding globulin-bound testosterone as a marker for hyperandrogenism DC Cumming and SR Wall J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Nov 1985; 61: 873 – 876.

    Menstrual Irregularity in Women with Acromegaly G. A. Kaltsas, J. J. Mukherjee, P. J. Jenkins, M. A. Satta, N. Islam, J. P. Monson, G. M. Besser, and A. B. GrossmanJ. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Aug 1999; 84: 2731 – 2735

    JAMA. 1989 Feb 24;261(8):1165-8

    Filed Under: Steroid Articles
    Last edited by NACH3; 01-30-2017 at 02:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestoSuper View Post
    Yes I'm planning to take 50 mg per day divided into 2/3 doses (every 8 hours).
    Together I take Liv 52 tablets (2 tablets during lunch and two during dinner) for the entire duration of winstrol + 2 other weeks.

    No I was not able to open the link above! but I think it's interesting...
    You won't want to take oral winny for no more than 8wks total - so backload it the last 8 wks(and that's pushing it imo) on duration

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    Here's the article long but interesting -- also NAC, imho, should be taken for liver support even when using injectables(oils)... liv-52 is ok too but I'd add in NAC as well...

    You are here: Home / Steroid Articles / Winstrol – Oral versus Injectable (More Different Than You Think!)
    Winstrol – Oral versus Injectable (More Different Than You Think!)
    June 1, 2006 By Anthony Roberts 2 Comments

    I tend to shy away from straight “information” articles- in other words, I’ve never written the “How Androgens Work” article, because I’ve read it several times by several authors, and I really have nothing to add. Gene Transcription and Androgen Receptor Action has been written about over, and over, ad nauseum. All of the articles I’ve read on the topic are well written and well- they’re all the same. Don’t get me wrong, all of the articles which discuss the topic are very informative, but when you’re done reading them, you don’t really have anything you can “use” in your next cycle.

    And I’m sure you know the difference between orals and injectables, but do yourself a favor and read this article, because I’m going to explain some things in here that you can use in your next cycle. Actually, I’m going to explain how you can use Winstrol (Stanozolol ) as either an oral or injectable, and get a very different set of effects from the same drug- depending on which route of administration you choose to utilize.

    First, lets go over the basics of Winstrol, so we’re all on the same page here.

    Winstrol is a steroid derived from the base structure of Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is just testosterone which has been 5alpha-reduced, meaning it has had the c4-5 double bond removed by two hydrogen atoms. This is very interesting from a chemical/biological standpoint. Once this bond is removed, testosterone has become DHT, and DHT is the body’s most potent androgen. DHT has a slew of beneficial effects which are more pronounced than the hormone it’s created out of. DHT is able to increase androgen receptor proliferation for almost 24 full hours (1) DHT also has profound effects on the Central Nervous System (CNS), and this is why we often see profoundly increased aggression with athletes who are using DHT derivatives such as Masteron (which has a deceivingly low anabolic and androgenic rating). As an added benefit, DHT can not aromatize (convert via the aromatase enzyme) into estrogen. It’s also noteworthy that the injectable version of Winstrol is actually the same exact thing as the oral- it’s just micronized Stanozolol powder suspended in water (or sometimes oil).

    So what we have in Winstrol is DHT with two modifications- an added c17 methylation, and a very weird “pyrazol” group. The c17 methylation has been added in order to allow Winstrol to survive oral ingestion and the subsequent first pass through the liver. The pyrazol group is a bit weirder- what this means to you and I is that it has another whole “ring” attached to the four ring Steran Nucleus of DHT. Take a look over at the lower left portion of the two molecules below, and you’ll notice that Winstrol has an added cyclopentane (5 sided) group (the pyrazol group):

    DHT Winstrol
    DHT Winstrol
    When we really take a look at Winstrol, the anabolic rating of this product is very high (320% that of testosterone) as compared to its androgenic actions (30% of testosterone). Despite this, Winstrol is really a disappointing drug for size gains. What we typically see with this stuff is some pretty decent strength gains and some nice fat loss if the user isn’t too sloppy with their diet. Not many people report huge weight gains off of Stanozolol. Although many drugs which bind tightly to the androgen receptor are suspected to exhibit their at least some of their lipolytic (fat-burning) effects through receptor binding affinity. The effects of androgens on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells.(2), Winstrol remains a potent cutting drug, despite the fact that it has a relatively weak AR binding ability (3). What this tells me is that there’s some stuff going on with regards to Winstrol’s mechanism of action, which doesn’t involve androgen receptor mediated effects. Still, Winstrol is a very potent compound for enhancing protein synthesis (4-5 ) .

    As previously discussed, it’s derived from DHT, and DHT is known to have ant-estrogenic effects (6) and Winstrol itself also has anti-progestenic properties (in at least some cases, where it may “block” that receptor) (7). So I think it’s safe to say that some of the “hard” look you can get in your physique from Winstrol is because of it’s ability to inhibit estrogen and progesterone- known culprits in making a physique appear smooth. Unfortunately, since it is 17aa, it is also liver toxic, especially more so when you inject it and it is subject to what is known as the “first pass” through the liver. The difference between taking oral vs. injectable Winstrol, even though it’s technically the same drug, is how and when your body metabolizes it. When you consume a drug orally, that drug is absorbed from the Gastrointestinal tract, where it then passes via the portal vein into the liver -where some drugs are metabolised. This “first pass” can mean that only a certain portion of the drug reaches your body’s bloodstream. As previously discussed, a 17aa has been attached to Winstrol to allow a sizeable portion to survive this metabolism.

    First pass metabolism can occur in both the gut and the liver, and where this happens can vary with different drugs. First pass metabolism actually occurs in your gut for some drugs and in the liver for others. Once it has been metabolized, it enters the bloodstream. It’s important to note that when a blood is metabolized in the Gastrointestinal tract, the blood leaving the Gastrointestinal tract does not go right to the heart, but actually still passes through liver via the hepatic portal vein and then ultimately returns to circulation via the hepatic vein. The liver is your body’s filtration unit, and removes large quantities of nutrients, dangerous toxins (or fun toxins, depending on what they are) and other substances from the blood.

    So as you can see, when you take an oral steroid such as Winstrol, undergoes a first-pass metabolism in the both the intestines as well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more or less totally intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is through this first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood until it is acquired by another tissue, such as skeletal muscle. Now, if the drug reaches the liver again, it may undergo what is cleverly known as “second-pass” metabolism. Of course, in the case of Winstrol, an injectable version is available, and when we compare the oral and injectable versions of Winstrol and their effects in your body, I think there’s some surprising differences. The injectable is (naturally) put right into your bloodstream and only undergoes the far less extensive second pass metabolism, while the oral must endure the gut and liver on it’s first pass before ending up in circulation.

    Now, here’s the interesting part: When you inject Winstrol, instead of taking it orally, you actually get more nitrogen retention (4) (and hence we can infer, more new muscle tissue is being built). SO if you are trying to use Winstrol to build new muscle tissue, the injectable version is going to be far superior to the Oral version. However, there are some advantages that the oral version has over the injectable, including a possible “synergy” with other drugs- but only (primarily) when taken orally.

    While in the liver, on it’s first pass, Winstrol is exposed to a variety of enzymes and proteins. To understand how a possible synergy between Winstrol and other steroids may be possible, a little background on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) is first necessary. For our purposes here, all we need to know is that SHBG is a glycoprotein produced in the liver, which binds to testosterone and makes it biologically unavailable to do all the things we want it to do- like building muscle. It serves to transport testosterone throughout the body, but while it remains bound to testosterone, the testosterone can not exert it’s anabolic effects.

    SHGB
    SHGB Adults
    Testosterone SHGB
    As you can surmise, a very large portion of the testosterone in your body is bound to SHBG. Wouldn’t it be great if we could lower SHBG? With Winstrol we can.

    A fairly conservative oral dose of .2mg/kg of Winstrol has been shown to lower SHBG by close to 50%. (8)For me (200lbs) this would mean I would only need around 18mgs/day to free up half of my SHBG bound testosterone! For my omnipresent and hypothetical “100kg bodybuilder”- only 20mgs would be needed (he’s 220 lbs for the metrically impaired among us). Now, with less SHBG floating around in me, my anabolic steroid cycle will be more effective, right? Right.

    But why can we only expect such a dramatic lowering of SHBG with the oral? Well, obviously, we’re taking advantage of the first pass through the liver, where we can have our Winstrol interact with SHBG where it’s produced- in the liver…without going through the bloodstream first.

    When we take a look at a study done comparing injectable vs. oral contraceptives, we find that the oral version at 70mgs/week (10mgs/day given orally) is more effective at affecting SHBG levels than 400mgs/week given via an injection! (9)In this study, testosterone undecanoate was given at a constant dose along with norestisterone (which raises SHBG). What we see is that when norestisterone is given orally, it produces a far greater effect on SHBG, than when it is administered via an injection. And this is even when the doses of the injectable are 4x higher!

    Here’s a chart, illustrating exactly what I’m talking about in this study, which I think suggests very strongly that injectable versions of drugs, when compared with the oral version, will have nowhere near as much of an effect on SHBG:

    Oral vs. injectable on SHBG

    Group I (Black Circles): Injections of 200 mg NETE at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18 plus injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 2, 6, 12, and 18 (T free window). Group II (White Diamonds): Injections of 1000 mg TU together with 400 mg NETE at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18. Group III (Grey Squares): Injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18 combined with daily oral 10 mg norethisterone acetate (NETE) from week 0 to 24 (9)
    Of course, in this study, they’re looking at oral vs. injectable versions of a SHBG raising drug- but what we can take away from it is that SHBG interaction with oral compounds is far more pronounced than it is with injectables.

    So lets take a small amount of Winstrol with our cycles, and free up some of those steroids we’re taking, right? Right!

    Unless of course, we’re talking about women here…I was recently asked why I recommend that women use the injectable version of Winstrol over the oral. I was asked this question by someone, who I assumed had a female friend who was considering using Winstrol. I then realized I was totally incorrect- not about Winstrol, but about the reason behind the question. You see…I saw a picture of the man who had first asked me the question, and it’s readily apparent to me that he probably doesn’t actually know any women. But still, his question is valid and bears repeating and answering here.

    I recommend that women avoid the oral version of this product for the same reason that men will find that it gives them an increased synergy and effectiveness in their cycles.

    When SHBG is lowered in women, there is more free testosterone floating around. And as we’ve seen, the oral is going to affect SHBG exponentially more than the injectable will. When we lower SHBG too much in women, we see a strong positive correlation with hyperandrogenism (10 ), and hirsuitism (abnormal growth of body hair), as well In fact, non-SHBG-bound testosterone may actually be the defining characteristic for identifying hyperandrogenism in women. In addition, low SHBG contributes to menstrual irregularity.(11)

    Finally, and (partially) anecdotally, we also see a greater incidence of clitoral enlargement and acne when the oral version of Winstrol is used by women instead of the injectable. The reasons for this are obvious- When we increase free testosterone by lowering SHBG, we increase the amount of testosterone which is able to be 5a-reduced to DHT. DHT is the primary culprit for steroid induced acne, and is also the hormone responsible for external genital enlargement. Clearly, this is why we see the increased level of clitoral hypertrophy as well as acne when oral Winstrol is used by women.

    We can also see increased acne when men use Winstrol orally, but these effects are relatively minor when a 2mg/kg dose is being used to increase the effectiveness of other steroids in a cycle. This isn’t carte blanche to go using Winstrol for an extended period of time under the excuse that it’s increasing the overall effectiveness of the cycle. Stanozolol has some of the worst liver toxicity (hepatoxicity) of any oral steroid on a mg for mg basis. In addition, it’s deleterious effects on your lipid profile (Cholesterol) are also very pronounced, even at low doses- 6mgs/day of Stanozolol can lower HDL (good cholesterol)by 33% and raise LDL (bad cholesterol) by 29% (12 ).

    So, hopefully, you’ve reached the end of this article and realized that Winstrol can be used in any cycle to increase the effectiveness of it, but that it must be used sparingly due to it’s possible hepatoxicity and lipid profile effecting properties. Still, when used in heavy testosterone-based profiles, at a dose that will cut your SHBG levels in half, it can increase you other steroids effectiveness quite a bit…but when maximal protein synthesis is wanted, you need to inject it.

    There you go…the differences between oral and injectable Winstrol, and how you can use either form to maximize your gains! And yes, Lyle, you can drink Winny

    References

    Neural Androgen Receptor Regulation: effects of androgen and antiandrogen. Lu S, Simon NG, Wang Y, Hu S, J Neurobiol 1999 Dec; 41(4):505-12

    Endocrinology. 1990 Feb;126(2):1229-34. Xu X, De Pergola G, Bjorntorp P

    Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.

    Can J Vet Res. 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8.

    J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1997 Sep 15;211(6):719-22

    MacDonald PC, Madden JD, Brenner PF, Wilson JD, Siiteri PK 1979 Origin of estrogen in normal men and in women with testicular feminization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 49:905–916

    Agents Actions. 1994 Mar;41(1-2):37-43.

    Sex Hormone Binding Globulin response to the Anabolic steroid: Stanozolol: Evidence for its suitability as a Biological Androgen Sensitivity test. J Clin Metab Endocrinol 68: 1195, 1989)

    The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87,No. 2 530-539. An Effective Hormonal Male Contraceptive Using Testosterone Undecanoate with Oral or Injectable Norethisterone Preparations Axel Kamischke, Tanja Heuermann, Kathrin Krüger, Sigrid von Eckardstein, Ilka Schellschmidt, Alexander Rübig and Eberhard Nieschlag Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the University (A.K., T.H., K.K., S.V.E., E.N.), D-48129 Münster, Germany; and Schering AG (I.S., A.R.), D-13342 Berlin, Germany

    Non-sex hormone-binding globulin-bound testosterone as a marker for hyperandrogenism DC Cumming and SR Wall J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Nov 1985; 61: 873 – 876.

    Menstrual Irregularity in Women with Acromegaly G. A. Kaltsas, J. J. Mukherjee, P. J. Jenkins, M. A. Satta, N. Islam, J. P. Monson, G. M. Besser, and A. B. GrossmanJ. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Aug 1999; 84: 2731 – 2735

    JAMA. 1989 Feb 24;261(8):1165-8

    Filed Under: Steroid Articles
    I will take NAC also, for more precaution.
    Thank you, very interesting ... probably the injectable version is useful for increasing protein synthesis a little and build new mass, but I like the tablets benefits on lowering of SHBG and increased androgen receptors that improve efficiency of the cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    You won't want to take oral winny for no more than 8wks total - so backload it the last 8 wks(and that's pushing it imo) on duration
    Absolutely, I will take winstrol for six weeks maximum!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestoSuper View Post
    Absolutely, I will take winstrol for six weeks maximum!
    Good call TS! Enjoy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    Good call TS! Enjoy!
    I will inform you about the results and impressions!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestoSuper View Post
    I will inform you about the results and impressions!
    Cool brother

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    Any body heared of using winstrol IV instead of IM?, I have seen some bodybuilders using 25 mg EOD as IV pre-contest.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by raazindia View Post
    Any body heared of using winstrol IV instead of IM?, I have seen some bodybuilders using 25 mg EOD as IV pre-contest.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Definitely the best most effective delivery method

    I do all my suspension gear intravenous. Winny, test suspension, etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    Definitely the best most effective delivery method

    I do all my suspension gear intravenous. Winny, test suspension, etc
    Thanks mate,
    So what will be the doses? 25 mg EOD both ?
    Do we need to dilute with anything else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by raazindia View Post
    Thanks mate,
    So what will be the doses? 25 mg EOD both ?
    Do we need to dilute with anything else?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Naw man I'm just messing with you.

    Don't put this crap into your vein.
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    cant be real

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    Iv steroids makes no sense. It will kill you. To the OP my experience with injectable winstrol didn’t last long the injections were painful and near impossible the plunger got stuck even on 22G pins hope you have better luck. Also the knots in muscles were debilitating. I ended up drinking it after a couple weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    Naw man I'm just messing with you.

    Don't put this crap into your vein.
    But the guys who tried look awesome, at the end of the day, they look for just be okay to go to stage. never care about their health!!

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    Putting oil in your veins will kill you....

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