Testosterone for life?

After reading a few threads like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/co...started_doing/

I am interested in AAS usage, particularly for life. Money is not an issue.
Even if muscular gains do stall, wouldn't the psychological benefits be worth it enough?

I already take 20mg EOD low-dose Accutane and never plan on getting off it. So acne will not be a problem.

Oh...yeah...stats
Training naturally on and off NOT seriously 3-4 years.
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 160 pounds
Max bench: 225
Max deadlift: 315
Max squat: 245
Mile time: 6.5 mins
BF: 17%
Not "great" stats by any means I KNOW

Hormone stats:
I ran a Aromasin only solo trial for a few months and have some interesting results:
Before Aromasin:
Test: 477 ng/dL
Free Test: 13.1 pg/mL
Estrogens: 149 pg/mL (High)
I had another test done to confirm the high estrogen flag and it came back normal.

Fast forward: Results after Aromasin 12.5mg ED run for a few months:
Test: 695 ng/dL
Free Test: 21.5 pg/mL
Estrogen: Don't have # but it was much lower though not too low
My test and especially my free test rose quite a bit.
I only stopped the experiment because I ran out lol and didn't really notice a whole lot besides moderate strength gains and MAJOR acne!! Oily slick mess! Yuck!
Eventually I had to jump on Accutane because of it. I have not restarted Aromasin since.

Okay so back to the topic discussion.
Concerns with acne? Accutane
Concerns with estrogen? Aromasin
Concerns with testicular atrophy? hCG/hMG
Concerns with cardiovascular system? Curcumin injections (bypass horrendous oral bioavailability). Some bodybuilders actually inject curcumin and claim it helps with scar tissue buildup around injection sites.
Concerns with DHT (Baldness/enlarged prostate)? Again, Curcumin injections or Finasteride
Concerns with libido? PT-141

I mean what else am I missing here? I understand this is a lot of extra crap I probably would have to take but I don't care. I already have the Accutane and I already underwent gyno surgery, so that won't ever come back. I have no family history of baldness. I already eat somewhat healthy and have reasonable macronutrient intake ratios. Sure, I'll continue pursuing a better physique, but it's the mental effects I sought more.

The financial cost of all this isn't even that much. My limit is anywhere between $400-600 monthly. Shit, with HGH getting cheaper every year I could throw that in there and still keep it below 600.
Can someone please explain why this isn't a widely done method? Testosterone for life? No cycling BS. This can't be that easy to think of. I am definitely missing something..Please advise

That is a whole lot of information in one post. However I didn't actually see a question in there. What exactly are you asking?

There are questions at the bottom but my main questions are. Could I run testosterone for life if I follow up with my side-effect preventative measures listed? Have you noticed any mental effects like being more "alpha"?

Visit the HRT section and read the sticky, then organise a full hormonal blood test as outlined in those stickies.

You may, or ,any not, be a suitable candidate for TRT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Back In Black

Visit the HRT section and read the sticky, then organise a full hormonal blood test as outlined in those stickies.

You may, or ,any not, be a suitable candidate for TRT.

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Ok thanks. I can't find the full hormonal blood test outline in the HRT stickies. I already got my hormone levels tested while natural (not under Aromasin influence). All results came back "normal". Test was on slightly lower end while estrogen slightly higher end but I didn't feel any different with Aromasin improving those numbers. That's why I'm looking for something stronger like running a high TRT dose indefinitely with the caveat of avoiding most side effects with concomitant of accutane, hcg, AI, and curcumin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MToption2

After reading a few threads like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/co...started_doing/

I am interested in AAS usage, particularly for life. Money is not an issue.
Even if muscular gains do stall, wouldn't the psychological benefits be worth it enough?

I already take 20mg EOD low-dose Accutane and never plan on getting off it. So acne will not be a problem.

Oh...yeah...stats
Training naturally on and off NOT seriously 3-4 years.
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 160 pounds
Max bench: 225
Max deadlift: 315
Max squat: 245
Mile time: 6.5 mins
BF: 17%
Not "great" stats by any means I KNOW

Hormone stats:
I ran a Aromasin only solo trial for a few months and have some interesting results:
Before Aromasin:
Test: 477 ng/dL
Free Test: 13.1 pg/mL
Estrogens: 149 pg/mL (High)
I had another test done to confirm the high estrogen flag and it came back normal.

Fast forward: Results after Aromasin 12.5mg ED run for a few months:
Test: 695 ng/dL
Free Test: 21.5 pg/mL
Estrogen: Don't have # but it was much lower though not too low
My test and especially my free test rose quite a bit.
I only stopped the experiment because I ran out lol and didn't really notice a whole lot besides moderate strength gains and MAJOR acne!! Oily slick mess! Yuck!
Eventually I had to jump on Accutane because of it. I have not restarted Aromasin since.

Okay so back to the topic discussion.
Concerns with acne? Accutane
Concerns with estrogen? Aromasin
Concerns with testicular atrophy? HCG
Concerns with cardiovascular system? Curcumin injections (bypass horrendous oral bioavailability). Some bodybuilders actually inject curcumin and claim it helps with scar tissue buildup around injection sites.
Concerns with DHT (Baldness/enlarged prostate)? Again, Curcumin injections or Finasteride
Concerns with libido? PT-141

I mean what else am I missing here? I understand this is a lot of extra crap I probably would have to take but I don't care. I already have the Accutane and I already underwent gyno surgery, so that won't ever come back. I have no family history of baldness. I already eat somewhat healthy and have reasonable macronutrient intake ratios. Sure, I'll continue pursuing a better physique, but it's the mental effects I sought more.

The financial cost of all this isn't even that much. My limit is anywhere between $400-600 monthly. Shit, with HGH getting cheaper every year I could throw that in there and still keep it below 600.
Can someone please explain why this isn't a widely done method? Testosterone for life? No cycling BS. This can't be that easy to think of. I am definitely missing something..Please advise

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Mainly because its illegal and few wanna take their chances on the black marked for life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silabolin

Mainly because its illegal and few wanna take their chances on the black marked for life.

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Good point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MToption2

Ok thanks. I can't find the full hormonal blood test outline in the HRT stickies. I already got my hormone levels tested while natural (not under Aromasin influence). All results came back "normal". Test was on slightly lower end while estrogen slightly higher end but I didn't feel any different with Aromasin improving those numbers. That's why I'm looking for something stronger like running a high TRT dose indefinitely with the caveat of avoiding most side effects with concomitant of accutane, hcg, AI, and curcumin.

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How long ago was the test done?

Why not just run a cycle if everything is in order?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Back In Black

How long ago was the test done? Why not just run a cycle if everything is in order?

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Good idea. Then you would have a better idea if exogenous Testosterone is something you would want to do for the rest of your life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MToption2

After reading a few threads like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/co...started_doing/

I am interested in AAS usage, particularly for life. Money is not an issue.
Even if muscular gains do stall, wouldn't the psychological benefits be worth it enough?

I already take 20mg EOD low-dose Accutane and never plan on getting off it. So acne will not be a problem.

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Stopped reading here.

Isotretinoin is a very harsh drug, it was actually developed as chemotherapy, and although if severe acne present may be necessary, it is only done for a few months.

There is no advantage in running it for life ffs. Quite the contrary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MToption2

There are questions at the bottom but my main questions are. Could I run testosterone for life if I follow up with my side-effect preventative measures listed? Have you noticed any mental effects like being more "alpha"?

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Welcome to the forum. At your age, you'd probably be a candidate for TRT. You need to get a full spectrum hormone test and check your numbers. You should be in the 80 percentile of the "normal" Test range. One poke of Test a week, for life, to have an improved vitality and lifestyle is definitely worth it. A far as being more "alpha"? If you're a dick before you'll be a dick after Test, that won't change. I have noticed that I have a much better sense of well being. In other words, I worry less and feel like I can conquer the world. It's an awesome feeling. I should that I am on 5iu/ed of HGH along with 150mg/wk of Test on a TRT regiment.

im on TRT for same reason of scotch proven to benefit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Stopped reading here. Isotretinoin is a very harsh drug, it was actually developed as chemotherapy, and although if severe acne present may be necessary, it is only done for a few months. There is no advantage in running it for life ffs. Quite the contrary.

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This. You're going to scorch your liver staying on that stuff long term

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Back In Black

How long ago was the test done?

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My first hormone test when I was natural was back in the summer of 2015. I didn't bother pursuing any further because all my numbers were considered to be in the "normal" range.
But my attitude changed in the summer of 2016 and I tried out Aromasin June-October. Numbers improved but didn't feel any different and the strong resurrection of my acne prompted me to jump ship. Really, I feel no different than before, during, or after that experiment. Still the same as I expected.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Back In Black

Why not just run a cycle if everything is in order?

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Because if I run a cycle, that means I would have to eventually get off. Why would I want to get off? The vast amount of new online information readily available for public viewing has allowed me to study AAS extensively, if there are clearly medically proven ways to avoid xyz side effects. Why bother getting off it? I don't really care if muscular gains stall, it's the oh so subtle slight "alpha" mental boosts I'm after.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Stopped reading here.

Isotretinoin is a very harsh drug, it was actually developed as chemotherapy, and although if severe acne present may be necessary, it is only done for a few months.

There is no advantage in running it for life ffs. Quite the contrary.

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Many celebrities do this...Low dose long term treatment is a popular method for patients in Europe...
The 10mg a day protocol is only to clear me up. My plan is too titrate that down to 20mg a week (3mg a day) as a maintenance dose with liver values being tested. I've been supplementing with Silymarin as a liver aid and I don't drink alcohol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

Welcome to the forum. At your age, you'd probably be a candidate for TRT. You need to get a full spectrum hormone test and check your numbers. You should be in the 80 percentile of the "normal" Test range. One poke of Test a week, for life, to have an improved vitality and lifestyle is definitely worth it.

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Oh uh. Yeah I'm not really 50 or whatever age I put on here. I'm 25.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

I have noticed that I have a much better sense of well being. In other words, I worry less and feel like I can conquer the world. It's an awesome feeling. I should that I am on 5iu/ed of HGH along with 150mg/wk of Test on a TRT regiment.

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I'm not depressed or anything like that, but I sure wouldn't mind experiencing a bit more of what you've just described.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MToption2

Many celebrities do this...Low dose long term treatment is a popular method for patients in Europe...
The 10mg a day protocol is only to clear me up. My plan is too titrate that down to 20mg a week (3mg a day) as a maintenance dose with liver values being tested. I've been supplementing with Silymarin as a liver aid and I don't drink alcohol.

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Err... I'm in Europe. Nobody here here takes isotretinoin for life.

Low dose for 6-9 months, is a treatment which is being used, not for life. You dont need it anymore after you are cured.

Even at low dosages it is something you don't want to take together with steroids. Silymarin will not help you even with the liver, not to mention your cholesterol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Err... I'm in Europe. Nobody here here takes isotretinoin for life.

Low dose for 6-9 months, is a treatment which is being used, not for life. You dont need it anymore after you are cured.

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Sorry I should've worded that better. Of course most dermatologists won't prescribe Accutane forever. I do though believe the standard European method is superior. Studies show that a lower dose is just as effective as a higher dose with the exception of severity of side effects. I can't find any studies or even anecdotes suggesting toxicity at 1-5mg a day.
I don't know if I'll be able to reduce my dosage if AAS comes into play here...with sebum production coming back and all. That would be great if I could maintain clear skin on AAS with a much lower dose. But I doubt I'd be able to stop completely because even Aromasin alone messed up my skin again. The concern seems to be from potential interactions with AAS?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Silymarin will not help you even with the liver, not to mention your cholesterol.

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I have to disagree, there is enough evidence now to point to Silymarin as a good liver aid. With a couple studies sprinkled as helpful for cholesterol.
Now of course, I wouldn't be putting all my antioxidant eggs in one basket. Curcumin has been studied much much more extensively. Studies indicating aid in cardiomyopathy, prostate, liver, cholesterol, etc.
Poor bioavailability so I would experiment with the new formulations of water soluble Curcumin via oral before considering injection routes.

Money and time are on my side. I would plan on getting lab work done frequently. If my doctor or I notice my preventative measures failing to stop AAS induced side effects. I can taper off.

Someone PMed me about Curcumin based on this thread. I don't know if my message got to to him because my "Sent" folder is empty. So here is my response to him asking what Curcumin is:

It's a compound extract from the popular herb Turmeric. Probably one of the most well studied herbs in history. Many studies (hundreds) backing up how healthy it is. But there is one huge problem. The oral bioavailability is horrible. Extremely hydrophobic. Even taking 10 grams of the yellow spice results in barely any detectable plasma levels. The absorption also sucks. Now, recently, I would say only the past 3-4 years, a newer cheaper formulation of is readily available. A version of Curcumin with water solubility rates of up to 150 mg/mL. Supposedly, this increases bioavailability but I will still opt to inject it at dosages anywhere between 50-125 mg/day subQ. According to some, it might even help reduce scar tissue buildup from the constant I.M of AAS. Reconstituting it with bacteriostatic water is now possible. It degrades fast in aqueous solutions so it's best to reconstitute with every usage. Of course, before doing that, properly sterilizing it is necessary. You can't just inject "unclean" powder.

I'm not gonna lie though, this is largely uncharted territory here. While almost countless studies do back up Curcumin, there are very few people who have actually done this. Probably since it's so new. So I cannot guarantee anything, but there is a reasonable chance that Curcumin properly administered can significantly mitigate side effects associated with long term steroid use.

I found this thread very interesting: Some "experts" chimed in middle thread:
chances of recovering after 3-4years on cycle? | MuscleTalk.co.uk

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Originally Posted by MToption2

I found this thread very interesting: Some "experts" chimed in middle thread: ...

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No offense but I find the expert opinions in that thread laughable.

Of course the longer your HTPA is shut down the more difficult it is to restart.

The idea that SERMs are a bad choice for HTPA reset and AIs are better is contrary to 50 years of quantitative and qualitative research.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numbere

No offense but I find the expert opinions in that thread laughable.

Of course the longer your HTPA is shut down the more difficult it is to restart.

The idea that SERMs are a bad choice for HTPA reset and AIs are better is contrary to 50 years of quantitative and qualitative research.

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Ok. I'm sorry but I cannot find the evidence that longer cycles=harder recovery. Please help.

I never railed on Clomid. I was wondering if theoretically an AI could replace Nolva. I know the evidence is nonexistent.

Another question, why does Clomid monotherapy display more sides than hCG monotherapy? Shouldn't both have nearly equal sides for males?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MToption2

Ok. I'm sorry but I cannot find the evidence that longer cycles=harder recovery. Please help.

I never railed on Clomid. I was wondering if theoretically an AI could replace Nolva. I know the evidence is nonexistent.

Another question, why does Clomid monotherapy display more sides than hCG monotherapy? Shouldn't both have nearly equal sides for males?

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I wish I could point you to a peer reviewed medical journal that clearly states longer cycles make HTPA reset more difficult.

Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge no such journal exists.

However, if you spend enough time on steroid boards you will be able to quantitatively deduce that longer cycles make reset more difficult based on years of member feedback.

In theory an AI could replace nolva but you would be doing yourself quite a disservice.

There is more to resetting your HTPA post cycle than merely increasing TT.

Clomid and nolva complement each other and work in synergy to reset your HPTA.

Clomid increases the amount of lh secreted by the hypothalamus and nolva decreases the the time between lh pulses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MToption2

I found this thread very interesting: Some "experts" chimed in middle thread:
chances of recovering after 3-4years on cycle? | MuscleTalk.co.uk

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I gotta say im with the guy who called himself for dazd or whatever.
If you do everything rigth, its surprising how much muscles u may keep, even with very low test.
And i stil think that pct is only a delay. Extention of your cycle. It will not increase your natty limit test level or speed up your own production.
The hormonboosts serms give you have nothing to do with recovery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silabolin

I gotta say im with the guy who called himself for dazd or whatever.
If you do everything rigth, its surprising how much muscles u may keep, even with very low test.

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That seems hypocritical of you because that guy is against using peptides during PCT.

I was under the impression that you were an advocate of this approach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numbere

That seems hypocritical of you because that guy is against using peptides during PCT.

I was under the impression that you were an advocate of this approach.

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Nope. I preach mk677 during pct. And thats an oral gh segrxxx. Not a peptide.
Ok im not a chemistrystudent as u are and if mk677 is categorized as a peptide, so be it.
But then again. I dont see why cjc, ghrp, ipam etc would do any harm in pct.
Im not a hypocrit. I just agreed with his keep muscles on low t statement.

5'8" 160lbs at 17% bf is the weirdest stats I ever heard of I think ...props on the mile time. I haven't ran in literally 10 years or so and I started again when I was 220lbs around 14% bf I would guess and I was running 7 minute miles.. not bad though man. Good job

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

Welcome to the forum. At your age, you'd probably be a candidate for TRT. You need to get a full spectrum hormone test and check your numbers. You should be in the 80 percentile of the "normal" Test range. One poke of Test a week, for life, to have an improved vitality and lifestyle is definitely worth it. A far as being more "alpha"? If you're a dick before you'll be a dick after Test, that won't change. I have noticed that I have a much better sense of well being. In other words, I worry less and feel like I can conquer the world. It's an awesome feeling. I should that I am on 5iu/ed of HGH along with 150mg/wk of Test on a TRT regiment.

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where does it say his age?

Hey MToption2,

I quite liked your other thread regarding genetic potential. You like your research and facts like me.

There is a heavy degree of flat-out lunacy in this post and your thinking though. The use of AAS's and auxiliaries is usually simplified to apply to only doing cycles. Replacing your endocrine system (for the rest of your life) with synthetics... no. You're not Bane.... as much as I wish you were <3

Steroids don't just affect your ability to produce muscle, your natural production of testosterone is related to many bodily functions, some of which haven't even been documented based on the status of steroids. (In the same way estrogen wasn't documented until it was shown that breast cancer was fueled by it, and conveniently many of the ancillaries juicers use are thanks to breast cancer ... )

Don't stay on roaccutane. It's not a maintenance drug, it's something you use to shrink your pores and reduce sebum production to reduce the longterm affects of having it in your system. It's also been proven to be way more useful in high dosages for a short period (after the initial trial period to make sure you don't go crazy period). Most people go on it in their teens or early 20's, then come back to in their 30's if cystic acne reappears. Accutane is a strong extract of Vitamin A which can severely fuck your liver. It's why people die when they're stranded in the wilderness and eat the raw internal organs of animals containing high levels of Vit A.

You seem like a smart guy, please don't do anything stupid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by evanescent

Hey MToption2,

I quite liked your other thread regarding genetic potential. You like your research and facts like me.

There is a heavy degree of flat-out lunacy in this post and your thinking though. The use of AAS's and auxiliaries is usually simplified to apply to only doing cycles. Replacing your endocrine system (for the rest of your life) with synthetics... no. You're not Bane.... as much as I wish you were <3

Steroids don't just affect your ability to produce muscle, your natural production of testosterone is related to many bodily functions, some of which haven't even been documented based on the status of steroids. (In the same way estrogen wasn't documented until it was shown that breast cancer was fueled by it, and conveniently many of the ancillaries juicers use are thanks to breast cancer ... )

Don't stay on roaccutane. It's not a maintenance drug, it's something you use to shrink your pores and reduce sebum production to reduce the longterm affects of having it in your system. It's also been proven to be way more useful in high dosages for a short period (after the initial trial period to make sure you don't go crazy period). Most people go on it in their teens or early 20's, then come back to in their 30's if cystic acne reappears. Accutane is a strong extract of Vitamin A which can severely fuck your liver. It's why people die when they're stranded in the wilderness and eat the raw internal organs of animals containing high levels of Vit A.

You seem like a smart guy, please don't do anything stupid.

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This was my first ever thread post on any bodybuilding/steroid related forum. I've started a few other threads since then and this is the one I'm currently focused on:
http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...-proviron.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by evanescent

Hey MToption2,

The use of AAS's and auxiliaries is usually simplified to apply to only doing cycles. Replacing your endocrine system (for the rest of your life) with synthetics... no. You're not Bane.... as much as I wish you were <3

Steroids don't just affect your ability to produce muscle, your natural production of testosterone is related to many bodily functions, some of which haven't even been documented based on the status of steroids. (In the same way estrogen wasn't documented until it was shown that breast cancer was fueled by it, and conveniently many of the ancillaries juicers use are thanks to breast cancer ... )

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People replace their endocrine system with TRT. Standard difference between standard TRT and cruising is dosage.
Natural testicular function can still continue with hCG and hMG. Mimicking LH and FSH respectively.
And theoretically, Curcumin could prevent the long term adverse steroid induced effects.
Problem is potential endocrine shutdown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by evanescent

Hey MToption2,
Don't stay on roaccutane. It's not a maintenance drug, it's something you use to shrink your pores and reduce sebum production to reduce the longterm affects of having it in your system. It's also been proven to be way more useful in high dosages for a short period (after the initial trial period to make sure you don't go crazy period). Most people go on it in their teens or early 20's, then come back to in their 30's if cystic acne reappears. Accutane is a strong extract of Vitamin A which can severely fuck your liver. It's why people die when they're stranded in the wilderness and eat the raw internal organs of animals containing high levels of Vit A.

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As with all drugs, there is a big difference between >5mg and 80mg. I went through with a high dosage tour before so I have experience with both. It's like comparing tea to redbull. I exhausted all options before restarting Accutane. Believe me. I even resorted to drinking carrot juice to the point of beta carotene overload. My skin temporarily resembled more Donald Trump. My lab data will show if I'm messing up my liver. I can tell you though that no one has ever messed up their livers with dosages I'm currently on.

Much of the Accutane demonization is largely unwarranted. And this is coming from a guy who refused it for years.