First cycle

**jesus1234** · 03-01-2017, 01:54 PM

Hi, i'm 21 yo tried sarms this year, feld great but didn't gain so much, serious lifter (about 5 years of gym experience) i'm currently at 77 kg x 182cm 8%bf
ectomorph,

I didnt have much money for a cycle, i was thinking about something with ipamorelin (i have serious trouble with sleeping, and something slighty anabolic / androgenic )

i have a huge disponibility of dianabol , ipamorelin,6 bromo, and deca , probably testosterone too, can somebody help me? thx
ipamorelin and 6 bromo are good for a decent pct?

**fit_deskjocky** · 03-01-2017, 04:09 PM

Since you are new and I am fairly new as well, I'll tell you what I've seen the vets tell others and save them the time and effort of replying to this. You are too young for AAS. Come back in 4 years, at age 25 when everything has fully matured.

In the meantime read the sticky about, Young and Steroids and read all of the horror stories. At 170, and 5'10" you still have some work to do. Body is lean though if you truly are 8% and that's good. Check Workout section as well as Diet and Nutrition. What are your goals for the next 6 months to a year?

**redz** · 03-01-2017, 04:21 PM

I'd bet money you are t 8% and it sounds like you know nothing about cycling, pct, ai's or hcg .

**Marsoc** · 03-01-2017, 06:03 PM

Do you have a pic ..did you do a pct for your peptides?
That's besides the point if you already fucked up your natural system. And what's the point if your body won't retain the gains since your an ectomorph..you can be just ectomorphic I think but it's not uncommon to be 2 .Your either 2 of the 3. Ecto plus endo, or ecto plus meso etc.etc or just ecto
And since your mainly ectomorphic that means your body isn't built to hold mass or anything so you will just lose what you gain , if you gain anything since that depends on training intensity and diet. So you will fuck your dick and erections up, and not have any testosterone the rest of your life which will suck being 21. No fun lol. So I suggest you eat 5,000 calories a day and train like crazy cuz that's what it takes . I'm an easy gainer so I don't count calories I just try to eat smart and often

**>Good Luck<** · 03-01-2017, 06:14 PM

just eat til you want to puke, and then eat a bit more... DO - NOT - PUKE!

as for the cycle, i recommend a bicycle, or motorcycle if your feeling like a tough guy...

**PT1982** · 03-01-2017, 06:19 PM

Peptides are great in my opinion for younger guys who are not planning on competing. They're easy to purchase and do little to no damage to the HPTA. I love them. Some better than others, as some don't do much at all for me. The orals do good for short cycles. The injectables do really good if you're ok with pinning 3 or 4x a day.

**Marsoc** · 03-01-2017, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by PT1982

Peptides are great in my opinion for younger guys who are not planning on competing. They're easy to purchase and do little to no damage to the HPTA. I love them. Some better than others, as some don't do much at all for me. The orals do good for short cycles. The injectables do really good if you're ok with pinning 3 or 4x a day.

Dude last thing you want to do is condone steroid use at a young age. Peptides shut you down and you get no gains for what it's worth I hear. I also hear never an oral only cycle since they shut you down and you need to supplement with testosterone injection since they shut your natural test down

**PT1982** · 03-01-2017, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Marsoc

Dude last thing you want to do is condone steroid use at a young age. Peptides shut you down and you get no gains for what it's worth I hear. I also hear never an oral only cycle since they shut you down and you need to supplement with testosterone injection since they shut your natural test down

I think you're mistaken me for a parrot, which I'm not. I agree 25 is a good age to start, but I know many 20+ year olds that are more mentally and physically prepared than some 35 year olds. And I didn't recommend an oral only cycle. The oral peptides as he was describing. So you can keep repeating info that you hear and not actually know, or you can help people that ask for help. I would much rather help people that ask than to say "you're to young", knowing they're going to do it anyways. If I see someone under 25 asking questions and I don't feel they are ready mentally, I'm going to steer them in another direction. But peptides don't harm your HPTA. Peptides are pretty much safe across the board and I know this from years and years of use, as well as client use. So if it's ok with you, I will help those who ask as long as I feel they are mature enough and are going to do so anyway. That cool?

**redz** · 03-01-2017, 06:59 PM

Just because people will do it anyways does not mean we should aide them in their own self destruction. It's not a maturity thing it's the fact that their hpta systems are not fully developed. I would also venture to say not a lot of long term research has been done on long term effects of using peptides in young males.

**Couchlock** · 03-01-2017, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by PT1982

Peptides are great in my opinion for younger guys who are not planning on competing. They're easy to purchase and do little to no damage to the HPTA. I love them. Some better than others, as some don't do much at all for me. The orals do good for short cycles. The injectables do really good if you're ok with pinning 3 or 4x a day.

Little damage,?

Shut down is shut down, damage is the same.

Plus he already shut his self down earlier this year, and no pct
.

He's also planning on no pct again.

**PT1982** · 03-01-2017, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by redz

Just because people will do it anyways does not mean we should aide them in their own self destruction. It's not a maturity thing it's the fact that their hpta systems are not fully developed. I would also venture to say not a lot of long term research has been done on long term effects of using peptides in young males.

You're absolutely right, and my point was not an arguement against that mindset. But in my experience with up and comers looking to compete (and I've got 2 guys now on the verge of being pro, both 26 years old), I can't in good conscious tell them that they can achieve the build they're after by eating massive amounts of food only. A person won't turn pro without the use of anabolics/peptides and they usually have to start at an early age. But those people are without question in a state of maturity, not found in many adults. For the casual kid who just wants to do a 6 week dbol only cycle to get big for the beach, no way I would even offer guidance on such. If you really listen to people, regardless of age, you can get to know whether they're ready or not. But it seems that once someone says they're 24, it's like anything else they say after that is void. That's wrong and that's what I was saying. The OP is talking about oral peptides and injectable peptides, to which I will give advice on because I know first hand and through many studies (although limited) that peptides are a great start for people looking to get into this lifestyle. They cause no harm to the HPTA, and are generally safe for all if taken as advised. Notice I used advised and not as directed by hearsay. For guys wanting to test the waters with steroids , peptides are a great alternative for them to get their feet wet. They may hate pinning after a couple of weeks and decide this isn't for them. I'm in no way trying to undermine anyone on the board. I am willing to give safe advice to people I feel deserve it without shutting them out and discouraging them. After a few posts, you can tell who is willing and who is looking for a quick solution. I was here I guess about 10 or more years ago, and we advised deca only, tren only, winstrol only, hcg wasn't even heard of, AIs were optional, and overall dangerous info. We all did it that way for years. We know better now through being taught and learning the hard way. That mindset was common to all, even the vets back then. It's all changing for the better these days. I stepped away from here just because I lost interest, but was asked by a guy to check it out. He said he listed his cycle and was told he was too young and had no assistance. His cycle was perfect, and he's 6'2 and 230lbs at 12%, hoping to get to 240 at 8% by July. But.....he was 23. Nevermind the experience he had to get to where he is. He's a beast and is the hardest worker in the gym. But after signing back up, I see this same thing daily. Most is warranted. But so many times the second post is "you're too young, learn to eat" without hearing anything else they have to say. Does that not sound counterproductive to a forum that is about steroid use ? I'm not saying 18-25 year olds should, but they're going to and I would rather them get advice from people who know rather than their dealers at the gym. If they're not ready, you'll spot it quickly if you just listen. If they aren't ready, the best help is to tell them stay natty and eat until they are ready. I don't have a golden age as to when one is ready because I don't think there is one. I don't think an 18 year old should. But will they? Yes. But if it's against a moral code, then don't advise. I would really have to know someone for me to advise at that age because I've never advised anyone under 20 thus far. That's just my take. I'm not going to hurt anyone, but would rather advise and teach what I know to be true in order so that they don't get hurt trying to do it listening to broscience from the gym or gear dealer. And for the record, I never support an oral only cycle, unless it's anavar .

**PT1982** · 03-01-2017, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

Little damage,?

Shut down is shut down, damage is the same.

Plus he already shut his self down earlier this year, and no pct
.

He's also planning on no pct again.

No more damage than binge drinking over a long weekend or taking BP meds. BP meds led to me being put on TRT at age 16. Recreational opioids will cause more damage. What about the OTC garbage pushed by GNC? What in that proprietary blend? If you're going to advise against any damage, best advice is to tell them to stay away from all supps that have a proprietary blend.

**redz** · 03-01-2017, 09:41 PM

I tried to read some of that but I'll admit it was just too long lol.

**PT1982** · 03-01-2017, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by redz

I tried to read some of that but I'll admit it was just too long lol.

Lol. I know man. I'm sorry about that. I didn't realize it until I clicked.

**Couchlock** · 03-01-2017, 10:00 PM

Editted for fear of mention

**PT1982** · 03-01-2017, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

Interesting, I shot dope for a few years, smoke rock cocaine, snorted probably over 3 kilos of blow, I have great blood pressure, and health to boot

He's almost guaranteed to cause damage

Bravo for no longer being a junkie! I salute you for it because I know how hard that is. And I know many guys that have used anabolics for years and still have great test levels off. The body is a wonderful thing and each unique.
But you're not being logical in saying he's almost guaranteed to cause damage. As long as "almost" is there, there is a chance. Just like there was a chance of you dying from an OD, or me dying of a stroke at 20 of not treated for high blood pressure. If a person is willing to do the right thing, I see no problem helping where I can if I'm comfortable. If I'm not, I won't. But he should pct for sure if he's going to use anabolics. I'm with you there. Peptides, ehhh

**jesus1234** · 03-02-2017, 12:00 PM

i've done a small pct with six bromo, seems like my sarm cycle didn't shut me down a lot ( this is me right now several weeks after this small cycle)

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**jesus1234** · 03-02-2017, 12:03 PM

i also know how to cycle, cycle are usually done with a test base, some oral kickstart such as dianabol , and pct with anti estrogens (6 bromo, clomiphene, tamoxifen and hgh)
some says that i have pro genetics (small waist very fckin low bodyfat since i was youngh, but i have difficult to grow my arms since they are very long.
the things that i hate too is that my bones aren't that big, so i was thinking about ipamorelin, but with what, and what pct should i do?

**PT1982** · 03-02-2017, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by jesus1234

i also know how to cycle, cycle are usually done with a test base, some oral kickstart such as dianabol , and pct with anti estrogens (6 bromo, clomiphene, tamoxifen and hgh)
some says that i have pro genetics (small waist very fckin low bodyfat since i was youngh, but i have difficult to grow my arms since they are very long.
the things that i hate too is that my bones aren't that big, so i was thinking about ipamorelin, but with what, and what pct should i do?

You really need to dig and research these types of questions on your own, then ask questions based off your own observations. The small bones thing is hogwash. Had nothing to do with where you could be. And as far as long arms, I have monkey arms. It's genetic. But my arms and shoulders are my strongest feature. You just have to put in the work. You're asking to be spoon fed now, which I can't in good faith do. And ipam doesn't need pct. But you're not going to get much from it without a combination of a GHRH and a GHRP. Neither of which need a pct.

**redz** · 03-02-2017, 12:35 PM

None of 6-bromo, clomiphene, nolvadex or hgh are anti estrogens as you called them and do nothing to lower estrogen levels in the body.

**Marsoc** · 03-02-2017, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by redz

I tried to read some of that but I'll admit it was just too long lol.

I glanced and said to myself. That's about enough lol.

**PT1982** · 03-02-2017, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Marsoc

I glanced and said to myself. That's about enough lol.

You guys don't know what you're missing! Lol. I didn't realize I got so long winded.

**Marsoc** · 03-02-2017, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by PT1982

You guys don't know what you're missing! Lol. I didn't realize I got so long winded.

Im sure each has their own experiences. Me personally I never cycled and currently building what I need for one (have everything actually). Just waiting to get blood work so I can see where my natural levels are and labmax my gets make use . I just been hanging out on here soaking it all up. Just like training and supplements I gather info from many sources and narrow it down logically and take advice from experienced users. I don't really care to much what others do so I don't mean to Be like Paul blart mall cop or whatever. But when I see some 20 year old kid wanting to juice and take shortcuts I feel the urge to talk shit semi educated. Strips must be earned and with young age I know the mindset and it just simply lacks wisdom of years and time on earth. So I try to put it out there that hard work and dedication is supremely gratifying and no side effects

**PT1982** · 03-02-2017, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Marsoc

Im sure each has their own experiences. Me personally I never cycled and currently building what I need for one (have everything actually). Just waiting to get blood work so I can see where my natural levels are and labmax my gets make use . I just been hanging out on here soaking it all up. Just like training and supplements I gather info from many sources and narrow it down logically and take advice from experienced users. I don't really care to much what others do so I don't mean to Be like Paul blart mall cop or whatever. But when I see some 20 year old kid wanting to juice and take shortcuts I feel the urge to talk shit semi educated. Strips must be earned and with young age I know the mindset and it just simply lacks wisdom of years and time on earth. So I try to put it out there that hard work and dedication is supremely gratifying and no side effects

I've read over some of your posts and you are doing the smart and logical thing for sure! I know it's a test of patience, but it'll pay off. I never even dreamed of steroids , even after I was put on TRT. But I was already active and was more an endurance athlete, so I went for it. I don't regret it and I'm glad I did it. It gave me more of a drive to be in the gym and not running in marathons. I do miss that sometimes, but building a body became manic for me when I (and others) started seeing results. Now, I couldn't even run a mile, lol. I could, but nothing competitive. I took my time and learned as much as I could first, just like you. I do regret some of the doses I've used as well as some of the compounds. But it was all a part of learning.

**Marsoc** · 03-03-2017, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by PT1982

I've read over some of your posts and you are doing the smart and logical thing for sure! I know it's a test of patience, but it'll pay off. I never even dreamed of steroids, even after I was put on TRT. But I was already active and was more an endurance athlete, so I went for it. I don't regret it and I'm glad I did it. It gave me more of a drive to be in the gym and not running in marathons. I do miss that sometimes, but building a body became manic for me when I (and others) started seeing results. Now, I couldn't even run a mile, lol. I could, but nothing competitive. I took my time and learned as much as I could first, just like you. I do regret some of the doses I've used as well as some of the compounds. But it was all a part of learning.

I know I never even thought about using it and if I did think about it I guess I would have assumed it would be like taking protein to where all you do is just take it and get bigger with no side effects to her no PCT any of that other stuff that I learned on here this one kid I know from high school he was always pretty small one lean, but the dude had a massive chest on him and come to find out I kmow for sure he used dbol . Not sure of anything else. Yeah my only quarrel is with messing up my natural system because I making some pretty good games naturally

**PT1982** · 03-03-2017, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Marsoc

I know I never even thought about using it and if I did think about it I guess I would have assumed it would be like taking protein to where all you do is just take it and get bigger with no side effects to her no PCT any of that other stuff that I learned on here this one kid I know from high school he was always pretty small one lean, but the dude had a massive chest on him and come to find out I kmow for sure he used dbol. Not sure of anything else. Yeah my only quarrel is with messing up my natural system because I making some pretty good games naturally

I don't know if you ever heard of cheque drops , but that was big with the football players in my school. I swear they took them morning, midday, before practice and before games. Every single day. Along with dbol only of course. They were some mean Mfs and a killer team, but now they're like everyone else. They're fat, smoke, and live unhealthy lives. Jumping into something not knowing is dangerous. As with anything really. You don't hear much about cheque drops anymore, and I for one am glad for it.