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Thread: Testicles back to full size, but no libido, low mood, will I recover?

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    SlammiN's Avatar
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    Testicles back to full size, but no libido, low mood, will I recover?

    Hi Guys

    I did a long cycle of just over 1yr test E and ran HCG throughout

    I have decided to stop my steroid use and stay natural from now on

    I am now 6 weeks into PCT

    First 2 weeks was HCG 300iu per day sub-q
    Last 4 weeks was Nolva and Clomid at 40/30/20/20 100/100/50/50

    I am continuing with the Nolva and Clomid (alpha pharma)

    I also have a lot more HCG ready just in case (organon)

    So my testicles have (almost) come back to full size, but I am still suffering from a fairly low libido and extremely low mood/ anxiety

    Size and gains have actually been fine and hardly affected

    I know that my testicle size may not be indicative of recovery at all, I still can get horny but only at certain times in the day. My mood is also up and down depending on time of day I could be happy or depressed

    What does my testicle size being back mean? That is surely a good sign?

    Do you think I have a chance to fully recover here if I continue? At what point should I try HCG again if I dont feel better? At what point should I get my blood work done and what do I need to be looking for? How is it looking for me at the moment?

    Any advice greatly appreciated as always

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    Too-$mall's Avatar
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    why not just become a HRT patient? you look about 30

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    I am but I have never had children yet, and the test was making my hair thin also

    I am more looking for a possibility of saving myself here

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    Back In Black's Avatar
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    Just extend your nolva by 2 weeks @ 20/20 and get some bloodwork 6-8 weeks after the end.

    You have been shut down a year so recovery is going to be difficult at best.

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    So what does the testicular size mean... anything at all???

    I had 2 6 week PCTs in the year and went straight back on which I know isn't good enough at all

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    There's your problem, no nut size is not going to tell you if you're shut down or recovered. Plan cycles better in the future with appropriate time off hopefully you recover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlammiN View Post
    So what does the testicular size mean... anything at all???

    I had 2 6 week PCTs in the year and went straight back on which I know isn't good enough at all
    It says something is moving in the right direction, but its not complete recovery indicator, only bloodwork.

    Anyways, after a year you sure you remember the previous nut size? ehhe

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    Testicle size means that the testicles are responding to the hcg and growing,
    which I guess would translate into them reacting well to endogenous LH secreted from your pituitary.
    If testicles regain their function,
    it means that IF your hypothalamus/pituitary recover and LH and FSH are secreted, T production (and spermatogenesis) will happen.

    Problem is, you don't know if your pituitary recovers until your off the SERMS and do BW to check LH/FSH vs T and E2.

    If T and E2 remains low WITH low LH & FSH then it's your pituitary that hasn't recovered, or at least it would mean so if HCG will bring T and E2 back to normal.

    As for children, I think it's a good chance you'll recover enough to have some sperm, but a bigger chance you'll not recover to a full T production.
    So chances are you'll end up being "half way recovered", which will be a living hell in the long run, but at least you could try to salvage and freeze down some viable sperm.
    If the pituitary didn't recover but the testicles do,
    You could function on hcg. Without fully functioning testicles hcg won't be enough.

    Good luck, it may take time, but your situation is far from hopeless.
    But I know how low T feels, so let's hope you recover quickly.

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    To Doctoxin8 thanks so much once again for taking the time to help me with such a detailed and easily understandable answer.

    I have been off the HCG for 4 weeks now and my testicles are full and hard. I know you mention they are responding to HCG but 4 weeks later is that an indication that they have definitely responded to the HCG.

    I am also hoping that the fact I took HCG non stop through that year helped me and will help my chances.

    I am on 2iu HGH so I don't know if that has any effect at all on the pituitary in the way that I need it to.

    Doctoxin8 what would be the protocol you would recommend for me now at this stage 4 weeks into nolva and clomid and when should I do my blood works?

    Thanks so much

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlammiN View Post
    To Doctoxin8 thanks so much once again for taking the time to help me with such a detailed and easily understandable answer.

    I have been off the HCG for 4 weeks now and my testicles are full and hard. I know you mention they are responding to HCG but 4 weeks later is that an indication that they have definitely responded to the HCG.

    I am also hoping that the fact I took HCG non stop through that year helped me and will help my chances.

    I am on 2iu HGH so I don't know if that has any effect at all on the pituitary in the way that I need it to.

    Doctoxin8 what would be the protocol you would recommend for me now at this stage 4 weeks into nolva and clomid and when should I do my blood works?

    Thanks so much
    During your year cycle, your natural GH output rose from the Test..
    PCT included SERMS, SERMS reduce secretion..
    Jumping on HGH (for now) was a good idea!

    Nolva and especially Clomid have side effects of their own. Clomid ends up being estrogenic and Nolva doesn't help counter that. Sometimes even aromatase inhibitors can't stop Clomid induced shitty feelings. Take it from me who ran a Clomid only cycle.
    This is good to know, because now you know why you feel the way you do. IMO, the duration of your cycle is not to blame. I'm willing to bet with such a simple cycle, your LH & FSH can be naturally restored just fine without extending your PCT any longer.

    The bad news is Clomid's long half-life and washout period. Once, the body is saturated with it, it'll take about a full 4 weeks to clear the system. I would stay on hgh during this time.
    Last edited by MToption2; 03-09-2017 at 09:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MToption2 View Post
    During your year cycle, your natural GH output rose from the Test..
    PCT included SERMS, SERMS reduce secretion..
    Jumping on HGH (for now) was a good idea!

    Nolva and especially Clomid have side effects of their own. Clomid ends up being estrogenic and Nolva doesn't help counter that. Sometimes even aromatase inhibitors can't stop Clomid induced shitty feelings. Take it from me who ran a Clomid only cycle.
    This is good to know, because now you know why you feel the way you do. IMO, the duration of your cycle is not to blame. I'm willing to bet with such a simple cycle, your LH & FSH can be naturally restored just fine without extending your PCT any longer.

    The bad news is Clomid's long half-life and washout period. Once, the body is saturated with it, it'll take about a full 4 weeks to clear the system. I would stay on hgh during this time.
    Wow that does make me feel like things are a lot more promising. I didn't realise the whole extent of the estrongenic activity of the Clomid.

    Would me taking an AI every few days help my mood? I have armidex if needed.

    I will continue with the HGH as I do know SERMs reduce IGF-1

    I'm glad to know the cause of how I am feeling. How many weeks PCT of nolva/clomid in total would you suggest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlammiN View Post
    Wow that does make me feel like things are a lot more promising. I didn't realise the whole extent of the estrongenic activity of the Clomid.

    Would me taking an AI every few days help my mood? I have armidex if needed.

    I will continue with the HGH as I do know SERMs reduce IGF-1

    I'm glad to know the cause of how I am feeling. How many weeks PCT of nolva/clomid in total would you suggest?
    Yeah man, it's well known that both PCT drugs are a strong libido killer for a good chunk of people. Just google search "Clomid side effects pct". That shits terrible. I was on a low dose of 12.5-25mg ed for 9-11 months before I realized what was messing me up.

    Clomid to our [LH/FSH] pituitary is like a shot of adrenaline to a failing heart after cardiac arrest. It's meant to jumpstart short term.
    I've never been on a AAS cycle so my PCT experience is lacking. I can only tell you from my personal experience with Clomid and the research I've done. I don't believe Nolvadex is much better.
    My main point is staying on SERMs is not the solution. You will feel worse than before cycle. And it will take a whole month before those two drugs are out of your system, no way around that. Might as well start ASAP. I don't think an additional few weeks at those dosages will help any.

    Oh, Nolva/Clomid both jack up cortisol too...

    You have a very good chance at full recovery. Staying on hcg throughout entire cycle was the smartest decision you've made. Just keep in mind, you'll lose some of your gains. You'll become a little flatter, softer, weaker, etc after all is said and done but you already knew that. Behavioral sensitization is also a factor here. Do you think you'll be able to fairly contrast your mental well-being pre-cycle compared to let's say 2 months from now? You were on Test for a llloonngg time.

    If you are gonna continue SERMs, then Arimidex is advised to trial. For some, Aromasin is superior. No estrogen rebound but non-response more likely.
    Don't be surprised if Arimidex doesn't alleviate SERMs induced side effects. This is common in many TRT patients. Keep your expectations low.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I just want you to keep your expectations realistic. At this point, if you had to choose which drugs to get off. I would recommend both Nolva and Clomid.
    Last edited by MToption2; 03-09-2017 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MToption2 View Post
    Yeah man, it's well known that both PCT drugs are a strong libido killer for a good chunk of people. Just google search "Clomid side effects pct". That shits terrible. I was on a low dose of 12.5-25mg ed for 9-11 months before I realized what was messing me up.

    Clomid to our [LH/FSH] pituitary is like a shot of adrenaline to a failing heart after cardiac arrest. It's meant to jumpstart short term.
    I've never been on a AAS cycle so my PCT experience is lacking. I can only tell you from my personal experience with Clomid and the research I've done. I don't believe Nolvadex is much better.
    My main point is staying on SERMs is not the solution. You will feel worse than before cycle. And it will take a whole month before those two drugs are out of your system, no way around that. Might as well start ASAP. I don't think an additional few weeks at those dosages will help any.

    Oh, Nolva/Clomid both jack up cortisol too...

    You have a very good chance at full recovery. Staying on hcg throughout entire cycle was the smartest decision you've made. Just keep in mind, you'll lose some of your gains. You'll become a little flatter, softer, weaker, etc after all is said and done but you already knew that. Behavioral sensitization is also a factor here. Do you think you'll be able to fairly contrast your mental well-being pre-cycle compared to let's say 2 months from now? You were on Test for a llloonngg time.

    If you are gonna continue SERMs, then Arimidex is advised to trial. For some, Aromasin is superior. No estrogen rebound but non-respondents more likely.
    Don't be surprised if Arimidex doesn't alleviate SERMs induced side effects. This is common in many TRT patients. Keep your expectations low.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I just want you to keep your expectations realistic. At this point, if you had to choose which drugs to get off. I would recommend both Nolva and Clomid.
    Don't worry you are not the bearer of bad news, that's the best news I have had all day. I think I will do another 2-3 weeks max and then come off the nolva and clomid.

    I know you say to come off straight away but won't it actually help my testicles and pituitary in the long run to do a few more weeks even tho I feel like shit?

    Think I'm going to take 1mg armidex today just to see if it makes me feel any different.

    So glad I kept up the HCG throughout the testicles did grow and shrink through that year and they were smaller but surely the fact they came back straight away was from that.

    So basically I need to come off the SERMS and 4 weeks later I need to check my levels of bloodwork with the doctor. Not sure what levels I have to request but sure I can find out in these forums.

    I maybe even need to do a sperm count at some point I don't know how about I do that in the UK.

    Thanks for all the advice!
    Last edited by SlammiN; 03-09-2017 at 02:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlammiN View Post
    Don't worry you are not the bearer of bad news, that's the best news I have had all day. I think I will do another 2-3 weeks max and then come off the nolva and clomid.

    I know you say to come off straight away but won't it actually help my testicles and pituitary in the long run to do a few more weeks even tho I feel like shit?

    Think I'm going to take 1mg armidex today just to see if it makes me feel any different.

    So glad I kept up the HCG throughout the testicles did grow and shrink through that year and they were smaller but surely the fact they came back straight away was from that.

    So basically I need to come off the SERMS and 4 weeks later I need to check my levels of bloodwork with the doctor. Not sure what levels I have to request but sure I can find out in these forums.

    I maybe even need to do a sperm count at some point I don't know how about I do that in the UK.

    Thanks for all the advice!
    That is good to hear. I have a couple questions since I want to run a cycle similar to yours in length hopefully longer health permits but with a smaller dose of 250-300mg a week split up into two pinnings.

    1. What dose of hcg, ai, and test were you on during?
    2. Why did you decide to hop off? Was it really only because of the hair? Did you try DHT shampoo?
    Last edited by MToption2; 03-10-2017 at 09:18 AM.

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