Test prop first cycle help

[Wrecker92]

Hey guys, my stats firstly.

Prop 100 EOD
Anastrazole .25mg eod

PCT
Clomid
Nolva

My stats are:
5'9''
230lb
25 y/o
(1st cycle )

Right so been on my cycle for 4 and a bit weeks but seem to have no strength gains really.
I've put on 2.5kg on bench which I think I would of done anyway. Just seems from everyone I've read they usually feel mad strong and I've had nothing. Any advice please. Can I add in something like tren this late in? Thanks.

[ScotchGuard02]

Hey guys, my stats firstly.

Prop 100 EOD 350mg/wk should be a good first cycle dose.
Anastrazole .25mg eod This looks fine. How about HCG 250iu twice a week?

PCT
Clomid
Nolva Run 4 weeks Clomid 100/50/50/50 and Nolva 40/20/20/20

My stats are:
5'9''
230lb Height/Weight tells me you might have some body fat? Have you measured it?
25 y/o Your profile says you're 24. Which is it?
(1st cycle )

Right so been on my cycle for 4 and a bit weeks but seem to have no strength gains really. If you have a lot of body fat, you might be amoritizing more Test into estrogen than the .25mg/eod of arimadex can handle. I'm not telling you to take more adex. You didn't post any blood numbers so this is just a guess. You need numbers if you want to self medicate.
I've put on 2.5kg on bench which I think I would of done anyway. Just seems from everyone I've read they usually feel mad strong and I've had nothing. Any advice please. Can I add in something like tren this late in? Thanks.

350mg/wk of Test Prop for 4 weeks is enough for an average guy to see significant body composition/strength changes. I wonder if your body fat composition is affecting your Test/E2 levels. Just a guess. The vets might have other thoughts.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Have you put on any bodyweight during the cycle??
Have you noticed any sides... oily skin, acne, increase appetite or libido?

[songdog]

Wats your bf% post a pic for us.

[Wrecker92]

Erm I would say body fat isn't low as I'm a power lifter rather then bodybuilder so not exactly for body. BUT I have been dieting whilst using this from a big bodybuilder I know gave me a diet he does and I'm basically staying the same weight which is weird considering I'm not eating as much and doing cardio not losing weight. I have kinda put it down to steroids but just surprises my strength ain't through the roof.

[Wrecker92]

I have oiley skin and few spots but seems to all gone maybe just the face wash I started to use. But I have booked myself in for bloods at the doctor to make sure it is good gear.

[Wrecker92]

350mg/wk of Test Prop for 4 weeks is enough for an average guy to see significant body composition/strength changes. I wonder if your body fat composition is affecting your Test/E2 levels. Just a guess. The vets might have other thoughts.

Not sure why if I were even massively fat I wouldn't see any strength gains at all tho?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I am a powerlifter and I find that the strength gains from steroids come more from the increase in bodyweight rather than the steroids effects on the CNS or anything else.
If you aren't getting heavier than I wouldn't expect too much strength gains.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

What is your bodyweight and lifts in the big three?

[PT1982]

I am a powerlifter and I find that the strength gains from steroids come more from the increase in bodyweight rather than the steroids effects on the CNS or anything else.
If you aren't getting heavier than I wouldn't expect too much strength gains.

I'll vouch for this. And if your body fat is high, don't expect to see much. I'll bet dialing in on your diet will get you better results. Timing small things like carb intake can make a huge difference.

[-Nac-]

My philosophy is, first cycle, dont add an AI in until you start seeing sides *unless* you have previous experience suggesting you will have issues with excessive aromatisation/gyno. Risky, and I certainly see the argument for running one out of the gate, but I think it is a good way to dial in AI use without unnecessarily dropping E2. E2 is not the devil. Dosing blind, .25mg adex eod *could* well be too much/often.

And 4sh weeks in, youre only just starting to reach a peak plasma saturation level; you generally wont start seeing strength gains til nowish - week six anyway.

[Wrecker92]

What is your bodyweight and lifts in the big three?

100kg bw
Bench 120kg
Deadlift 210kg
Squat 205kg. Not sure I could do that right now but done 190x 2 Monday

[Wrecker92]

My philosophy is, first cycle, dont add an AI in until you start seeing sides *unless* you have previous experience suggesting you will have issues with excessive aromatisation/gyno. Risky, and I certainly see the argument for running one out of the gate, but I think it is a good way to dial in AI use without unnecessarily dropping E2. E2 is not the devil. Dosing blind, .25mg adex eod *could* well be too much/often.

And 4sh weeks in, youre only just starting to reach a peak plasma saturation level; you generally wont start seeing strength gains til nowish - week six anyway.

Thanks. I did start getting like hard nipples all the time someone said that to use an ai? I had it to hand so thought I better had do it

[Wrecker92]

What is your bodyweight and lifts in the big three?

Out of pure interest what are your lifts as you look strong as fuck

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Out of pure interest what are your lifts as you look strong as fuck

Please remember that I am an old man...
approximately
530 (240.5) squat in sleeves
415 (188)
590 (267.5)

at 220.5 (100)

[PT1982]

My philosophy is, first cycle, dont add an AI in until you start seeing sides *unless* you have previous experience suggesting you will have issues with excessive aromatisation/gyno. Risky, and I certainly see the argument for running one out of the gate, but I think it is a good way to dial in AI use without unnecessarily dropping E2. E2 is not the devil. Dosing blind, .25mg adex eod *could* well be too much/often.

And 4sh weeks in, youre only just starting to reach a peak plasma saturation level; you generally wont start seeing strength gains til nowish - week six anyway.

Interesting philosophy. Opposite of what I would say, but I would like to hear more

[Myers]

I am a powerlifter and I find that the strength gains from steroids come more from the increase in bodyweight rather than the steroids effects on the CNS or anything else.
If you aren't getting heavier than I wouldn't expect too much strength gains.

I'm actually on a cutting cycle atm (400 mg test e/week) , and i gained strength even though in caloric deficit , bench is the same but my deadlift and squat went up
similar to OP
bench: 135kg
squat : 190kg
deadlift: 210 kg
bodyweight : 103kg bodyfat around 11-12% 192 cm tall

OP maybe your gear is bunk? I'd do BW

[Wrecker92]

Please remember that I am an old man...
approximately
530 (240.5) squat in sleeves
415 (188)
590 (267.5)

at 220.5 (100)

That's what I want to be doing that's some seriously good weight.

[Wrecker92]

Interesting philosophy. Opposite of what I would say, but I would like to hear more

Yeah someone told me to follow the first cycle on here and it said take ai at .25 eod

[Wrecker92]

I'm actually on a cutting cycle atm (400 mg test e/week) , and i gained strength even though in caloric deficit , bench is the same but my deadlift and squat went up
similar to OP
bench: 135kg
squat : 190kg
deadlift: 210 kg
bodyweight : 103kg bodyfat around 11-12% 192 cm tall

OP maybe your gear is bunk? I'd do BW

What does bw stand for? I'm assuming something blood? I have got a blood test next Friday to see if it is bunk. Thanks.

[Myers]

What does bw stand for? I'm assuming something blood? I have got a blood test next Friday to see if it is bunk. Thanks.

Ye blood work, might be either bunk or underdosed...

[Wrecker92]

Ye blood work, might be either bunk or underdosed...

Got some new gear from a new guy today. As labs so should be good.

[-Nac-]

You sound pretty confident the gear is dodge.

If I pay for shipping will you send the "bunk" stuff to me? Cheers

[PT1982]

Yeah someone told me to follow the first cycle on here and it said take ai at .25 eod

That's good advice

[charger69]

My philosophy is, first cycle, dont add an AI in until you start seeing sides *unless* you have previous experience suggesting you will have issues with excessive aromatisation/gyno. Risky, and I certainly see the argument for running one out of the gate, but I think it is a good way to dial in AI use without unnecessarily dropping E2. E2 is not the devil. Dosing blind, .25mg adex eod *could* well be too much/often. And 4sh weeks in, youre only just starting to reach a peak plasma saturation level; you generally wont start seeing strength gains til nowish - week six anyway.

The issue that I see you do not aleays see the sides unless you have bw. The .25 eod is the starting point, bw mid cycle is the determining factor for adjusting the ai dose.
Anyway you look at it, taking AI without bloodwork is taking it blind.

[-Nac-]

The issue that I see you do not aleays see the sides unless you have bw. The .25 eod is the starting point, bw mid cycle is the determining factor for adjusting the ai dose.
Anyway you look at it, taking AI without bloodwork is taking it blind.

I havent read the "first cycle protocol" some of you guys seem to be referring to. If it includes/recommends bloodwork, awesome. Perfect. I certainly wont argue with that.

But as I remarked to someone else, most noobz will not be doing pre/post cycle bloods, let alone any mid-cycle ones.

On a first test-only cycle of 500mg per wk, where no mid-cycle bloods are going to be taken, I think holding off on the AI has merit.

[PT1982]

I havent read the "first cycle protocol" some of you guys seem to be referring to. If it includes/recommends bloodwork, awesome. Perfect. I certainly wont argue with that.

But as I remarked to someone else, most noobz will not be doing pre/post cycle bloods, let alone any mid-cycle ones.

On a first test-only cycle of 500mg per wk, where no mid-cycle bloods are going to be taken, I think holding off on the AI has merit.

I just like seeing varying opinions, so I'm just taking this in. I am in no way going to say "you're wrong, I'm right" because God knows I've went against the grain here a few times in my short time here as well. My thinking on this matter is more of a better safe than sorry. 500mgs of test weekly is way more than enough to convert/raise estrogen levels, as my e2 becomes elevated slightly even at 150mgs weekly. And I know that estrogen (shown in study) has been thought of as one of the most carcinogenogic things for a male. Likewise, testosterone in females. I think there is a link to prostate issues and cancers in men that stem from estrogen and not the testosterone itself. I do know that elevated estrogen will lead to major problems if uncontrolled long term, but I've seen cases in where even short term elevations can wreak havoc. Blood pressure due to water retention comes to mind, even when water retention isn't very noticeable with the naked eye. I would suggest anyone to use at least a small amount of an AI if running testosterone at more than a low t dosage (only blood work can know what is a low dose per individual). Hence only one more reason I think a 6 week anavar only cycle is not such a bad idea, lol. Good stuff though. I for sure like seeing different perspectives when it can be backed up. It gives more room for discussion.

[Back In Black]

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

[-Nac-]

Theres guys that successfully run test cycles and never need to touch an AI at all. If they followed the general recommendation to use one out of the gate, this may well jeopardise their success. If we all followed the rule, no-one would ever know if they actually really need to use one (taking bloods out of the equation).

For any potential negative there is with high estrogen there are counter-positives for not pushing it too low. I know youre not advocating pushing it too low, but that is a net effect risk someone takes by blindly dosing an AI.

Adequate estrogen is good for lipids and general cardiovascular health. Its good for libido. Its good for mood. Its good for gains in general.

Im not sure the absolute level of E2 is even the main concern, but rather the ratio with test. That is, a higher absolute level will be tolerable when TT is higher as it will be when injecting. So if you feel absolutely fine, I dont necessarily see the need to freak out if you get on-cycle bloods and E2 is out of range: your test is out of range too.

Having out-of-range/supraphysiological test comes with potential health risks as well. But, we are prepared to accept those risks due to the benefits. So too with E2, within reason. Lol, Im NOT advocating being totally reckless and not giving a fuk.

[Wrecker92]

You sound pretty confident the gear is dodge.

If I pay for shipping will you send the "bunk" stuff to me? Cheers

No lol why would you want it if It was crap?

[Chicagotarsier]

My philosophy is, first cycle, dont add an AI in until you start seeing sides *unless* you have previous experience suggesting you will have issues with excessive aromatisation/gyno. Risky, and I certainly see the argument for running one out of the gate, but I think it is a good way to dial in AI use without unnecessarily dropping E2. E2 is not the devil. Dosing blind, .25mg adex eod *could* well be too much/often.

And 4sh weeks in, youre only just starting to reach a peak plasma saturation level; you generally wont start seeing strength gains til nowish - week six anyway.

The reason for AI beyond sides is that Estrogen protects muscle. Less micro tears and less overall growth on cycle. At minimal you are retarding your possible results by not using an AI.

If it is your first cycle and you dont use an AI...and it turns out you are sensitive to gyno...you just effed up.

High Estrogen raises blood pressure. Some people say oh I feel fine..and they are sitting there at 150/100. You just raised your susceptibility to cardiac issues by 30ish percent.

Just a few points of why to always take an AI. I live on AAromasin and it is so easy to adjust unlike Adex. You cannot bottom out estrogen on Aromasin unless you eat tablespoons of it due to it is a percentage reducer instead of a total cutter like Adex.

Only reason to not take an AI is you cannot afford it. If you cannot afford an AI you cannot afford Steroids .

[-Nac-]

No lol why would you want it if It was crap?

I dont believe it is crap. Yet. Too soon IMO.

[-Nac-]

The reason for AI beyond sides is that Estrogen protects muscle. Less micro tears and less overall growth on cycle. At minimal you are retarding your possible results by not using an AI.

If it is your first cycle and you dont use an AI...and it turns out you are sensitive to gyno...you just effed up.

High Estrogen raises blood pressure. Some people say oh I feel fine..and they are sitting there at 150/100. You just raised your susceptibility to cardiac issues by 30ish percent.

Just a few points of why to always take an AI. I live on AAromasin and it is so easy to adjust unlike Adex. You cannot bottom out estrogen on Aromasin unless you eat tablespoons of it due to it is a percentage reducer instead of a total cutter like Adex.

Only reason to not take an AI is you cannot afford it. If you cannot afford an AI you cannot afford Steroids.

*shrug* fair enough. I prefer exemestane too.

Id never cycle without owning a BP monitor.

[charger69]

I am just going to say the same thing in a different way....there are many things happening in your body on AAS. There are numerous sides that you do not feel or see. The purpose of the AI is to control some of these unseen sides as a prevention. If the sides progress enough, you see sides from the sides..
I agree with the last sentence of Chicago ... The only reason not to use it is because you cannot afford it....

[redz]

Using an ai is the right way to go unless you do blood work and find your estrogen is too low which I'm doubting happens much with low doses of arimidex . Not all estrogen sides are noticeable either so going through a cycle not on an ai and not getting gyno doesn't mean you are clear of other more severe problems.

[Back In Black]

Op aren't you running 500mg of mast pw too?

[Wrecker92]

Op aren't you running 500mg of mast pw too?

Yes I am