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ive just started my cycle and I'm running 500 mg test e a week with 30 mg dbol a day also 40 mg winstrol a day I was just concerned because the orals I got only come in 10 mg so I'm taking 7 pills a day I have been taking 4 winstrol in the morning because I noticed I have trouble sleeping if I take before bed and I take 3 dbol pre workout is this ok or would it be better if I spread the dosage out through the day plus I'm taking milk thistle for liver support.
No way I would run big of those at the same time. Dbol is usually used as a kickstart at the beginning, while winstrol is used as a finisher at the end. You're taking 2 very different, both very hepatoxic orals at the same time. I would do one and save the other. Or I would use dbol first and hold off on the Winstrol til the very end (lots of time between). What's your cycling experience?
Why are you taking winnie with dbol? I do not recommend taking 2 orals at the same time. It is very rough on your liver. I would also recommend takinf 1800-2000 of NAC for liver protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by insanegainz101
I agree with PT!
the source I got it from recommended running it this way 4 weeks of the dbol and 7 weeks winstrol why is it such a big deal to run them together? I have heard of all kinds of ppl doing it and this is my first cycle ever I'm 27 years old.
First of all, what is your goal? 7 weeks of winstrol is a lot. People here will tell you to only do test e, but personally i could handle test e and 4 weeks of dbol kickstart when I did my first cycle. Id say drop the winstrol, depending on your goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by insanegainz101
ok thanks guys I think I'm gonna drop the winstrol for the first 4 weeks and and finish off my cycle with it my goal is to gain lean muscle without a lot of water retention\bloat and look fairly lean at the end.
Your E2 management and diet will dictate your water and fat retention. More isn't necessarily better with aas.Quote:
Originally Posted by insanegainz101
Are you even running an AI ? if so how much and what one
I'm running anastrozol .25 mg every other day
Never listen to the person selling you the gear. And this is your first cycle?! It is a big deal because those 2 alone can wreak havoc on your liver. Together they could be deadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by insanegainz101
Probably the best advice.....Never listen to the person selling you the gear! Been there, done that.Quote:
Originally Posted by PT1982
You are blowing this way out of proportion. The liver can take a lot more than you would beleive. A total of 70mg of orals isn't that much. Some people run 100mg of dbol alone. Look at contest prep oral use. These guys aren't dropping dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by PT1982
two orals isn't realy that big of a deal, in moderation. Your liver enzymes will be elevated while using it, but they will bounce back within a few weeks of stopping. I can guarantee virtually every one on this forum has had weekends that did more damage to their liver than 6-8 weeks of a couple orals.
the toxicity of orals is blown out of proportion. I know a 85 pound girl that has been on 100mg of anadrol for years due to anemia. I have seen bloodwork of hers due to working with her. When I saw her med list the dosed shocked me, so I looked intonit more. Her liver enzymes have never been more than slightly elevated from the few bloodwork reports in her file.
I woild never recomend running high doses of multiple orals, but a reasonable amount of 2 orals for 4-8 weeks isnt that bad. I agree you shouldn't get advice from the guy selling it, but winstrol and dbol for 7 weeks wont kill anyone unless they're already having liver failure. Even then it wouldn't be the orals that killed said person, it would be the prior behavior, or some sort of ailment.
No I'm not. It takes a moron to think that winstrol or dbol is not a big deal. While yes, often over stating harm is often the case (as most things with AAS), when you take 2 of the most heptatoxic compound at the same time for 7 weeks, it's pretty safe to assume caution should be taken. And based off the screen name, I would say he's fairly young and this is his first cycle. So who knows what else is being taken? I think we should assume young people do what you'd people do. Drink, opiates, benzos, who knows what else. While I'm not a doctor, I am in the medical field. I've seen liver failure and death in people simply taking more Tylenol than needed. Couple winstrol and dbol with God knows what else, problems can arise. But my name doesn't have any color, so what do I know...Quote:
Originally Posted by jstone
The color of my name doesn't mean shit, but you are blowing it out of proportion. I understand being safe, but unless there is a pre existing condition your not going to die. Have you done bloodwork while using an oral? Dbol and winstrol are hepatoxic, but its not like supedrol, and anadrol. I also happen to work within the medical field. Its how I was able to see the bloodwork of a sub 100 pound female prescribed 100mg of anadrol daily. She has been on it for years, im not sure exactly how long, but the dates I have seen put it well over 3 years. Liver enzymes are just barely elevated.Quote:
Originally Posted by PT1982
Me saying death was a joke you bafoon. Don't take things so literal. And just because one person responds one way doesn't mean that's the standard. I don't care what color your name is. If I see bs, I'm calling it. I'm not saying you're full of it as I even admitted that most anabolics are blown way out of proportion. But 2 known drugs, big known to be highly liver toxic, needs to be reconsidered by sometime not trying to compete. Isn't this board about safely first? Just because Susan McWoman is fine with drol doesn't mean everyone will be. Now, sorry OP for the derailment. I stick to my word when I say 2 hepatoxic orals at the same time is not in your best interest. Especially for a first cycle, and if you're not competing. No red here though...Quote:
Originally Posted by jstone
for anyone wondering I am taking 2 fish oil for joints milk thistle with every meal for liver ive decided to just run the dbol by itself for 4 weeks and run the winstrol 6 weeks in giving time in between and ofcoarse test e 250 mg twice a week for 12 weeks plus I'm eating very clean 3500 calories a day for now may bump it up to 4000 if needed I think I'm taking all the right precautions and I thank everyone for there advice.
You should come hang out on the forum more often. Hope you are doing good.Quote:
Originally Posted by insanegainz101
It wasnt a joke, and the fact that you have to resort to calling someone a bafoon when they call you out shows a lack of intelligence. Yeah 2 orals isnt a great idea, but were not talking about superdrol and methyl tren. I wouldn't even recomend dbol alone for a first cycle, but you shouldn't resort to scare tactics to keep someone from doing something. Plenty of people run low dose of 2 orals for the synergy rather than a high dose of 1 oral. Liver enzymes elevate from using AAS, but they go back to normal within a few weeks. You also seem really hung up on the fact my name is on red, and yours isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by PT1982
I'm doing well, I hope your doing good as well buddy I will definantly be on here more often now that I have started my first cycle I'm sure I will have more questions I have tried to educate myself as much as possible before starting but you can never learn to much
.Quote:
Originally Posted by insanegainz101
If your having trouble sleeping I would cease the dosages near bedtime. If your on a 'normal' schedule, no dosages after 5pm
yes I'm thinking the winstrol is causing trouble sleeping cause that's one of the side effects of winny when I start taking it 6 weeks in I'm going to take it in the morning I'm usually in bed by 10 pm I work day shift thanks for the info
I agree with PT however you do have some valid points. I compete so I do things that I would never recommend to someone who does not compete because their are higher risks involved that are unneccessary. This last post is more of what I align with. Your first post came across to me that everything is fine and take 2 orals and you will be just fine like nothing happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by jstone
The first question is why winnie with dbol. Just that in itself tells me that he really doesn't know what he is doing. I felt that your advice would make him feel that its cool to take two orals.. I am just looking out for the younger people on here that are just looked ng for one person to agree so they can mentally think that no harm is being done.
I like this forum because it does try to do AAS as safely as possible.
Im all for safety, but I also know a small dose of 2 orals isn't going to kill you, or even cause great harm. The 2 orals mentioned dont make sense together, but the harm of orals is blown way out of proportion. I wasnt implying you could run 2 orals without caution, or that its a good idea. Its just not as dangerous as it was portrayed.Quote:
Originally Posted by charger69
From my bloodwork orals put stress on the liver, but it bounces back fast. 4-8 weeks of a reasonable dose of an oral, or possibly 2 at lower doses will cause very little harm. If this behavior goes on for months, or doing this multiple times per year will cause problems from the repetitive stress. Not everyone is the same, but look at how long alcoholics abuse their liver before it really starts to fail. Im also not implying this is a reason to be reckless, but I just get tired of seeing the toxicity of orals being blown out of proportion.
How long do you think one can pulse an oral, say 10 days on 10 off, like dbol or drol without worrying about causing liver problems?Quote:
Originally Posted by jstone
Can't we all just get along?
I think no matter how long your liver will have stress put on it. Whether pulsing or not I think a total of 6 weeks on is the most that should be attempted. So basically I would stick with 4 ten day cycles on. Its not that I dont think there is stress on the liver, I just beleive its blown out of proportion. I think 4 weeks for dbol and drol would be better. I would also much rather take a small dose of 2 orals rather than 1oral at large dose.Quote:
Originally Posted by numbere
I would rather take 30mg of dbol, and 25mg of droll rather than 100mg of either. I think responsible use shouldn't cause any problems with the liver. 1 or 2 small cycles of orals per year would be the max I would be comfortable with, but I also know there are people taking large doses for extended periods. They're not dropping dead.
It takes a lot to drop dead.
Getting your lipids totally out of whack, which is perhaps the most common side effect of hepatoxic AAS doesn't take that much though.
Combining two orals to reduce total AAS intake; like DBOL + DROL is something I have done, and whether it's actually safer I don't know, but I feel less sides.
Combining winny and DBOL on the other hand, I've done that too,
but kept the total winny dose at around 20mg pr day, 20mg DBOL.
70mg of orals for a first timer, I don't see the point.
And when you begin to enter the +50mg c17aa orals a day realm is begin to be cautious of how it can affect drug metabolism and liver function.
Binge drinking in weekends, ecstatic and pain killers with paracetamol isn't good for anyone, but with such an amount of c17aa, (and winny is really the worst offender of the usual ones IMO, more so than DBOL or DROL),
you never know when it does become a real problem not just confined to lipids.
I understand both points of view, orals hepatotoxic effects are overhyped, but what the OP was doing didn't make much sense to me. And while dangers are perhaps hyped a bit, I also know examples of people ending up in hospital from orals, and dose wasn't insane, at least in one guy I know.
He was just unlucky about how his liver processes that oral.
Anyway, not much point taking that extra stress when I think there's very minor benefits to it for the OP.
thanks for the info guys I do not intend to drink any alcohol while on cycle either
Don't drink and preferably be cautious with all medications affecting the kidneys And liver. Or any that raise BP, like stims.
Just to clarify when I speak about the hepatotoxic effects of orals,
not all orals are the same In that regard even though all have the same methyl group (attached to the 17th carbon in the steroid D ring),
And one factor that seems to affect the hepatotoxicity of the c17aa oral is affinity for the androgen receptor, in other words how androgenic it is.
DBOL and anadrol have very low binding affinity to the AR, and we have studies on women given 50mg DBOL ED for six months without much incidence of liver problems. (Those old studies are far from perfect, but they used much higher dosages than needed then, and Ofcourse encountered sides like virilization in women and other sides like jaundice, etc)
So 50mg of halotestin is for 8 weeks could probably cause jaundice in some users (as well as a host of other sides), while 50mg DBOL for 8 weeks would probably cause some issues you see during bloodwork (like lipids, liver enzymes mildly elevated, etc), but extremely few would have immediate medical care cases (in the way you have with jaundice, you don't need an ambulance, but you do need to see a doctor ASAP)
Oh I'm drifting of here, little hypoglycemic maybe,
So don't use methyltrienolone then. :)
Fuck it I need to eat and stop writing BS.