2nd Cycle Advice (Bulk) - NPP or EQ?

[Coffeehead]

I'm looking to get some advice on how I should plan my 2nd cycle at the end of summer.

My first cycle consisted of:

- 500mg Test-E for 16 weeks
- T-bol: Wks 1-4
- Var: wks 11-16

AIs:

HCG: Only until week 10 (Ran out - rookie mistake)
Adex: 0.5mg EOD

This first cycle went very well. I'll be getting a DEXA soon to confirm the gains, but I appeared to have put around 15lbs of lean mass in 4 months. I did have a tiny flare-up with possible gyno near the end of my cycle due to having a shitty AI, but I got a new one around the 10 week mark and starting using nolva - which seemed to have taken care of that.

Current Stats/Goals:

Age: 31
Wt: 201lbs
Ht: 6'0

I want my 2nd cycle to be a bulk for 12 weeks or so. I felt 16 was a bit overkill for me and I kind of just saw it through for the last month despite wanting to take a break from pinning and give my achy joints a rest. Ideally, this bulk would be more focused on putting more mass on my legs. I'm not sure if there's a AAS out there that is better suited for lower body gains, but if there is I'd like to know.

This is what I was thinking for my next cycle:

Option A:

Test-E: 500mg (wks 1-12)
T-bol: 50mg (wks 1-4)
EQ: 300-400mg (wks 1-12)

Option-B:

Test-E/Test-Prop (wks 1-12)
T-Bol: 50mg (wks 1-4)
NPP: (wks 1-12)

I know NPP is a 19-nor and requires some prolactin ancillaries like Caber, but I'm really intrigued by it. I hear EQ is a slower/cleaner gain, with less water retention. Both seem to have mild benefits to creaky joints while training - and I have a reconstructed ACL that gets achy from time to time. Any suggestions would be great - thanks!

[numbere]

300-400mg of eq is not enough and on top of that EQ is a poor mass builder for men.

I don't see the need to use nandrolone in your second cycle given your stats.

Imo run a test cycle again but this time add in a real bulking oral such as drol or dbol.

[tice1212]

300-400mg of eq is not enough and on top of that EQ is a poor mass builder for men.

I don't see the need to use nandrolone in your second cycle given your stats.

Imo run a test cycle again but this time add in a real bulking oral such as drol or dbol.

Ditto.
I don't like eq. It does nothing for me

[PT1982]

I would choose npp over eq any and every day of the week. But as Numbere said, if test worked well the first time, don't muck it up by adding other stuff so soon. But eq, I hate it! Npp is my favorite steroid out of them all.

[Coffeehead]

300-400mg of eq is not enough and on top of that EQ is a poor mass builder for men.

Considered EQ for it's joint benefits and side-friendly profile. Good to know - so EQ sucks?

I don't see the need to use nandrolone in your second cycle given your stats.

At what point would I need to consider NPP? I'm sincerely curious.

My knee ached like crazy at the end of the last cycle. Aside from the obvious side effects of NPP adding good amounts of mass, I would love to have some sort of joint relief while I'm beating my legs into the ground.

Imo run a test cycle again but this time add in a real bulking oral such as drol or dbol.

Would tbol not be sufficient here? I ask because since I had a slight gyno "scare" at the end of a Test cycle, I'm a little hesitant to add dbol which I know is known for causing gyno.

Drol I'm not too read up on. If I remember correctly it comes with some strong sides and a lot of water retention.

Ditto.
I don't like eq. It does nothing for me

That's 2, EQ probbaly sucks.

I would choose npp over eq any and every day of the week. But as Numbere said, if test worked well the first time, don't muck it up by adding other stuff so soon. But eq, I hate it! Npp is my favorite steroid out of them all.

3. EQ definitely sucks. Thanks guys!

Please excuse my ignorance, but is there any AAS that helps promote muscle building in the most stubborn to grow areas - like for me, my legs?

[numbere]

At what point would I need to consider NPP? I'm sincerely curious.
...
Would tbol not be sufficient here? I ask because since I had a slight gyno "scare" at the end of a Test cycle, I'm a little hesitant to add dbol which I know is known for causing gyno.

Drol I'm not too read up on. If I remember correctly it comes with some strong sides and a lot of water retention.

You should consider using nandrolone when your results from test diminish.

For what it's worth if I could do it all over again I'd only use test and orals (drol, winny) when I really wanted to kick things up a notch.

Imo everything else leads you down a dark road very quickly.

If you take 50mg/d of tbol for four weeks you'll be lucky to add one ounce of new muscle tissue after PCT.

Guys have issues with dbol causing gyno because they take advice from bros who cycled in the 70s.

If you dose your AI based on blood work then gyno should never be an issue.

Worrying about water retention while bulking is just plain silly.

Besides drol gives me no water retention.

AAS induced bloat varies from person to person.

[Coffeehead]

You should consider using nandrolone when your results from test diminish.

For what it's worth if I could do it all over again I'd only use test and orals (drol, winny) when I really wanted to kick things up a notch.

Imo everything else leads you down a dark road very quickly.

Noted, thank you for your help.

If you take 50mg/d of tbol for four weeks you'll be lucky to add one ounce of new muscle tissue after PCT.

So you're saying tbol doesn't do anything? I mean, I have no idea if it contributed or not, but I seem to be holding my size pretty well going into my 3rd week of PCT.

Or maybe I didn't understand the statement...

Guys have issues with dbol causing gyno because they take advice from bros who cycled in the 70s.

If you dose your AI based on blood work then gyno should never be an issue.

Perhaps, but I had a solid AI cycle set up to prevent it this time around and I ran into some shit luck with getting my hands on a poor brand of Adex. Had that been dbol and not only Test, I probably would have gyno right now.

Worrying about water retention while bulking is just plain silly.

It's not the water retention that really bothers me, it's adding a lot of size quickly and making it very obvious that I'm currently using something. I work in the industry and don't really want to make it known that I've dabbled with AAS.

Besides drol gives me no water retention.

AAS induced bloat varies from person to person.

I figure most sides are case to case. Do you prefer Drol or Dbol? I just read up on Drol and it sounds like you can gain a massive amount of weight quickly, and it's probably the most liver toxic. I can combat the liver issues with some NAC and Liv-52, but I want something that isn't too drastic, and the gains are keepable. I hear Dbol and Drol both rate poorly in the "Ability to keep gains" category. Truth?

[numbere]

So you're saying tbol doesn't do anything?
...
Perhaps, but I had a solid AI cycle set up to prevent it this time around and I ran into some shit luck with getting my hands on a poor brand of Adex. Had that been dbol and not only Test, I probably would have gyno right now.

It's not the water retention that really bothers me, it's adding a lot of size quickly and making it very obvious that I'm currently using something. I work in the industry and don't really want to make it known that I've dabbled with AAS.

I figure most sides are case to case. Do you prefer Drol or Dbol? I just read up on Drol and it sounds like you can gain a massive amount of weight quickly, and it's probably the most liver toxic. I can combat the liver issues with some NAC and Liv-52, but I want something that isn't too drastic, and the gains are keepable. I hear Dbol and Drol both rate poorly in the "Ability to keep gains" category. Truth?

Again, if you dose your AI based on blood work then e2 induced gyno should never be an issue.

I'm saying the 50mg/d of tbol for four weeks will add close to no new muscle tissue.

Tbol was designed to be used for long periods as performance enhancer without users raising flags about blood doping.

Try them both and see what works best for you, imo drol > dbol.

The thing with drol/dbol is that you put on a good amount of weight quickly.

This means a majority of that new mass is increased glycogen and nitrogen retention.

They are fun drugs that lift your workouts to new levels and help you push past plateaus.

The bottom line is if you want to use an oral for four weeks during a bulk you'll get more from drol/dbol than you will tbol.

[Coffeehead]

What a tease - for a moment I thought I got a bunch of new replies with good advice.

[AR's King Silabolin]

300-400mg of eq is not enough and on top of that EQ is a poor mass builder for men.

I don't see the need to use nandrolone in your second cycle given your stats.

Imo run a test cycle again but this time add in a real bulking oral such as drol or dbol.

Heavy androgenic orals should be ok but not nandrolone cause of stats. Thats a new one.

Go for test and deca. Deca 10 weeks. Good for your joints.
Kickstart if u want. Tbol/lgd should do.

Stay away from androgenic orals. We dont need them at our levels. Just messing up your organs and water and ugly face/physic all day.

[numbere]

Heavy androgenic orals should be ok but not nandrolone cause of stats. Thats a new one.

Go for test and deca. Deca 10 weeks. Good for your joints.
Kickstart if u want. Tbol/lgd should do.

Stay away from androgenic orals. We dont need them at our levels. Just messing up your organs and water and ugly face/physic all day.

OP is 6' 200lb and has only cycled once previously.

He doesn't need a 19 nor in order to grow.

[AR's King Silabolin]

OP is 6' 200lb and has only cycled once previously.

He doesn't need a 19 nor in order to grow.

But anadrol would cut it?

[numbere]

But anadrol would cut it?

Why do you always have to start shit?

If you disagree with someone then state your opinion like an adult and let the people reading this thread decided who's correct.

I'm tired of you initiating needless drama, by starting a confrontation, just because your real life is boring at the moment.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Why do you always have to start shit?

If you disagree with someone then state your opinion like an adult and let the people reading this thread decided who's correct.

I'm tired of you initiating needless drama, by starting a confrontation, just because your real life is boring at the moment.

Now this is special. Others, did i start shit. Or is numbere thinskinned?.... just wanna read u guys

[Mr.BB]

^^^Geez not this crap again...

---

You have previous threads about new cycle, so not going there. Did you manage to control the BP? When are you doing end cycle bloodwork?

[Coffeehead]

^^^Geez not this crap again...

---

You have previous threads about new cycle, so not going there. Did you manage to control the BP? When are you doing end cycle bloodwork?

Just saw this, apologies.

BP was 125/82 last week. Bloodwork was done Friday morning, end of PCT (more curious than anything) and will get F/U BW in about 6-8 weeks.

[ghettoboyd]

sil in every thread you start shit by disagreeing with anyone here on staff because you think you are above us all and think you know better... most know your advise is questionable but not the newbies....in another thread you advised not to take anything number,BB,BG and BIB say seriously...get over yourself man...do you really think what you said to GGR is what got you suspended?...that was just the tipping point for you its was you countless posts disrespecting staff here that was and still is the problem...F.Y.I...

[NACH3]

sil in every thread you start shit by disagreeing with anyone here on staff because you think you are above us all and think you know better... most know your advise is questionable but not the newbies....in another thread you advised not to take anything number,BB,BG and BIB say seriously...get over yourself man...do you really think what you said to GGR is what got you suspended?...that was just the tipping point for you its was you countless posts disrespecting staff here that was and still is the problem...F.Y.I...

Well said,Ghettoboyd!

Also, like all the others who've stated I agree EQ is far less effective building muscle it'll harden you up but it takes so long and the longer duration the harder it is to recover -

Go with NPP - it was my first compound I used with prop and grew like a weed - diet and training must be on point but NPP Is I great compound one of my favorites for mass - id also run prop with it a spin rod or ed(if you can rotate enough sites) if not eod is fine - you'll be in and out in 8wks imo... start pct early and reprime that body

[AR's King Silabolin]

Well said,Ghettoboyd!

Also, like all the others who've stated I agree EQ is far less effective building muscle it'll harden you up but it takes so long and the longer duration the harder it is to recover -

Go with NPP - it was my first compound I used with prop and grew like a weed - diet and training must be on point but NPP Is I great compound one of my favorites for mass - id also run prop with it a spin rod or ed(if you can rotate enough sites) if not eod is fine - you'll be in and out in 8wks imo... start pct early and reprime that body

Yeah...that was my point towards numbere. For gods sake drop androgenic orals and do nadrolone. Stil....im getting fire cause im not letting numbere get away with his bad advice. Go figure. Mafia.

[numbere]

Yeah...that was my point towards numbere. For gods sake drop androgenic orals and do nadrolone. Stil....im getting fire cause im not letting numbere get away with his bad advice. Go figure. Mafia.

This is exactly what I mean by starting shit.

All that's needed to make your point is the first two sentences of your last post.

You only added the last few lines in an attempt to irritate.

Grow the fuck up Silabolin.

[NACH3]

Yeah...that was my point towards numbere. For gods sake drop androgenic orals and do nadrolone. Stil....im getting fire cause im not letting numbere get away with his bad advice. Go figure. Mafia.

This is exactly what I mean by starting shit.

All that's needed to make your point is the first two sentences of your last post.

You only added the last few lines in an attempt to irritate.

Grow the fuck up Silabolin.

Im in agreement with Numbere as always! Hes a moderator that puts his time and effort in every post - and it shows(if you know what he's talking about) but I think you miss his points in many and various ways and 10/outta 10 times I'd take his advice! Just sayin

Now let's get back on track or take it to pm!

[AR's King Silabolin]

^^^Geez not this crap again...

---

You have previous threads about new cycle, so not going there. Did you manage to control the BP? When are you doing end cycle bloodwork?

Do not run from it. As a monitor u have to take part. U cant be everybodies friend always. I just wanna learn. Fit in. Was i too rude on numbere or was it within the acceptable. Border high but in range?

[Mr.BB]

Do not run from it. As a monitor u have to take part. U cant be everybodies friend always. I just wanna learn. Fit in. Was i too rude on numbere or was it within the acceptable. Border high but in range?

Whats rude its that we discussed all this topics countless times, provided evidence and you still dont learn... The next thread about it you come again with the old ideas like nothing happened.

Do not run from it? lol, Say what you want im tired of this shit. Ignore mode on.

[AR's King Silabolin]

sil in every thread you start shit by disagreeing with anyone here on staff because you think you are above us all and think you know better... most know your advise is questionable but not the newbies....in another thread you advised not to take anything number,BB,BG and BIB say seriously...get over yourself man...do you really think what you said to GGR is what got you suspended?...that was just the tipping point for you its was you countless posts disrespecting staff here that was and still is the problem...F.Y.I...

Common man. That thread is humor. Pure ironi and sarcasm. All day.

Tipping point?..so how come did inot get one single pm warning then saying i need to change??

[ghettoboyd]

Common man. That thread is humor. Pure ironi and sarcasm. All day.

Tipping point?..so how come did inot get one single pm warning then saying i need to change??

I find it hard to believe you didn't get a warning you have told BG and other staff to fuck off countless times...maybe if you think what you are saying is funny then follow it with an lol or j/k... I want to like you sill but you make it very hard sometimes because you purposely disrespect the staff here every chance you get...

[AR's King Silabolin]

I find it hard to believe you didn't get a warning you have told BG and other staff to fuck off countless times...maybe if you think what you are saying is funny then follow it with an lol or j/k... I want to like you sill but you make it very hard sometimes because you purposely disrespect the staff here every chance you get...

If the staff seriously interpretend i disrespect them and tell them to fuk off with nonhumor intention, why didnt i get a warning?. No, i did not get a warning on pm. Ofcourse they told me to shut up or else, a million times in the threads but that was just rolling along.

No man, it was the GGRthing. Fair enough.

Dont remember I asked them to fuck off or something like that. But called them skinny with narrow shoulders and smal bis and big failure workouts...yes indeed...but..hello??

[ghettoboyd]

I guess I just don't get you brand of humor...

[AR's King Silabolin]

I guess I just don't get you brand of humor...

BG does.

[AR's King Silabolin]

not to irritate...but to...heat things up a tiny bit. Ur rigth those two last lines are not necessary, but..man..who are we?...but u told me 20 times this is not why u are here. Hm, well...i should respect that. But..hm..ok...i think about it.

[PT1982]

This has turned into a Jason Blaha thread.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Do not run from it? lol, Say what you want im tired of this shit. Ignore mode on.

That attitude doesnt go very well with your monitor standing. Perhaps others should release you from your burdons. I voluntaire. No prob. Any time bro.

[Obs]

I'm looking to get some advice on how I should plan my 2nd cycle at the end of summer.

My first cycle consisted of:

- 500mg Test-E for 16 weeks
- T-bol: Wks 1-4
- Var: wks 11-16

AIs:

HCG: Only until week 10 (Ran out - rookie mistake)
Adex: 0.5mg EOD

This first cycle went very well. I'll be getting a DEXA soon to confirm the gains, but I appeared to have put around 15lbs of lean mass in 4 months. I did have a tiny flare-up with possible gyno near the end of my cycle due to having a shitty AI, but I got a new one around the 10 week mark and starting using nolva - which seemed to have taken care of that.

Current Stats/Goals:

Age: 31
Wt: 201lbs
Ht: 6'0

I want my 2nd cycle to be a bulk for 12 weeks or so. I felt 16 was a bit overkill for me and I kind of just saw it through for the last month despite wanting to take a break from pinning and give my achy joints a rest. Ideally, this bulk would be more focused on putting more mass on my legs. I'm not sure if there's a AAS out there that is better suited for lower body gains, but if there is I'd like to know.

This is what I was thinking for my next cycle:

Option A:

Test-E: 500mg (wks 1-12)
T-bol: 50mg (wks 1-4)
EQ: 300-400mg (wks 1-12)

Option-B:

Test-E/Test-Prop (wks 1-12)
T-Bol: 50mg (wks 1-4)
NPP: (wks 1-12)

I know NPP is a 19-nor and requires some prolactin ancillaries like Caber, but I'm really intrigued by it. I hear EQ is a slower/cleaner gain, with less water retention. Both seem to have mild benefits to creaky joints while training - and I have a reconstructed ACL that gets achy from time to time. Any suggestions would be great - thanks!

Option b I would definitely run the nandrolone over eq. Eq is good for vascularity and thats about it.
Dont know a thing about tbol other than it is a modified form of dbol.
I have no issues witb gyno so I really cant speak about dbol. By that I mean I could run an ass ton of gear without an AI and I still wouldnt get gyno.

Npp is without a doubt a better compound for bulking. Good luck man.

[Coffeehead]

Option b I would definitely run the nandrolone over eq. Eq is good for vascularity and thats about it.
Dont know a thing about tbol other than it is a modified form of dbol.
I have no issues witb gyno so I really cant speak about dbol. By that I mean I could run an ass ton of gear without an AI and I still wouldnt get gyno.

Npp is without a doubt a better compound for bulking. Good luck man.

I mean, I love vascularity and it's typically the look the look that I've went for, but after taking one year off of training lower body after a knee injury, my legs atrophied away. So now I have to even my lopsided ass out since most of my mass is upper body. I'm not quite the "gym bro that skips leg day" meme, but I'm getting there.

[NACH3]

Agree about the EQ... unless your competing leave it out it's useless for bulking(unless your using it to increase appetite but you won't need that with Nandrolone)!

I like option b as well - but I'd run prop only w/the NPP and if your diet is on NPP Will surely add LBM as well as size... If your gonna use t-bol I'd backload it the last 6wks imho

[PT1982]

Agree about the EQ... unless your competing leave it out it's useless for bulking(unless your using it to increase appetite but you won't need that with Nandrolone)!

I like option b as well - but I'd run prop only w/the NPP and if your diet is on NPP Will surely add LBM as well as size... If your gonna use t-bol I'd backload it the last 6wks imho

Perfect cycle advice

[Coffeehead]

I like option b as well - but I'd run prop only w/the NPP and if your diet is on NPP Will surely add LBM as well as size... If your gonna use t-bol I'd backload it the last 6wks imho

Why would you backload it rather than use it as a kickstart?

Also If I go with Sustanon, that should decrease the amount of time it takes for me to feel the test kick in, correct?? If so, then obviously no kickstart is needed...

[NACH3]

Why would you backload it rather than use it as a kickstart?

Also If I go with Sustanon, that should decrease the amount of time it takes for me to feel the test kick in, correct?? If so, then obviously no kickstart is needed...

Pretty much answered why I'm the last post but Sust is mostly decanate Ester takes 21days to clear so it takes a while to build up(if you run Sust I'd frontload the first wk or run it 3x a wk MON/WED/FRI!

If running Sust I'd frontload prop for 4wks and save the anavar for the last 8-10wks really(just make sure your running your liver support!

Imho, just run prop with the NPP as it'll start kicking very early and then backload your oral to get the most out of it! Simple and very effective!

[PT1982]

Agree about the EQ... unless your competing leave it out it's useless for bulking(unless your using it to increase appetite but you won't need that with Nandrolone)!

I like option b as well - but I'd run prop only w/the NPP and if your diet is on NPP Will surely add LBM as well as size... If your gonna use t-bol I'd backload it the last 6wks imho

To add something about the appetite enhancement. I would use, and do use most everyday, GHRP 6. There honestly isn't anything I've ever used that increases my appetite to the extent that it does. It really is a miracle peptide for people who are hard gainers or who have a hard time eating. Not to mention that it doesn't increase RBC. EQ just doesn't make any sense to me for anyone to use who isn't an athlete. Even then, I won't ever recommend it due to some issues I have had and have seen.

[Coffeehead]

This is all great info NACH. Thank you man,

Follow up questions though…

Would it be a bad idea to run test-e with NPP? Obviously I'd only pin test twice per week, and do NPP EOD.

Also, should I run test or NPP higher if the goal was to stay aesthetic and lean (less water bloat). Initially I was thinking 500 test, 400 NPP...but I'm very open to suggestions.

And one thing that concerns me is the PIP I hear about prop and NPP. Assuming that you pin correctly and don't butcher the muscle, is PIP simply a product of an inferior product, or does the ester really increase the PIP?

I had PIP a few times on my last cycle but nothing bad. Would really like to avoid feeling like I'm crippled. LOL!