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    transilvania is offline Junior Member
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    Heart attack

    Long story ... two months ago i notice after chest day training a pain behind shoulder blade after massage and some warm bath and ketonal gel the pain go away but after two weeks same story . 4 days ago the pain came back i went to ER EKG show some heart problems i was sent with ambulance 100 km away to heart institute hospital after angiography they implant one stent and tell me i suffer a heart attack. Now im still in hospital and i have some questions and im really scarred . I was at week 12 in my susta tren e cycle and i stop all cold turkey , im 35 years old running 1 cycle per year for the last 17 years , dr tell me if i want to live not to touch any steroids no more or pct drugs , becouse i recover very hard after my last cycles i was decide to start this year trt but after this i dont know how to do to recover and stay away from gear , i expect some real ED after this and im scare to use sildenafil or tadafil , my tratament is plavix and baby aspirin ... Any advice is welcome . Sorry my english !

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    Recovery will be rough without serms for sure. But it doesn't mean you won't recover, it'll just take a longer period of time.
    Nothing wrong with TRT if it ends up being a necessity.
    Cialis will not hurt you. It's actually one of the healthier things a man can take for a myriad of reasons.

    I hope you recover well. Just be patient.
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    Sorry to hear

    Wait till you get out of hospital to think about TRT and hormones, you are not talking to the right doctors over there.

    Stent, so you had an artery blockage. Did you usually monitored your cholesterol and blood pressure? Was there any warnings?

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    Wish you well bro!

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    -Nac- is offline New Member
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    Not judging OP, so dont take this the wrong way, but how often did you do rudimentary bloods? Like lipids, cbc kinda stuff? Monitoring BP?

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    Sorry to hear that my friend. I understand your concern but I agree with BB right now. Work on your recovery and getting out of the hospital for now. Wish you a fast one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by transilvania View Post
    Long story ... two months ago i notice after chest day training a pain behind shoulder blade after massage and some warm bath and ketonal gel the pain go away but after two weeks same story . 4 days ago the pain came back i went to ER EKG show some heart problems i was sent with ambulance 100 km away to heart institute hospital after angiography they implant one stent and tell me i suffer a heart attack. Now im still in hospital and i have some questions and im really scarred . I was at week 12 in my susta tren e cycle and i stop all cold turkey , im 35 years old running 1 cycle per year for the last 17 years , dr tell me if i want to live not to touch any steroids no more or pct drugs , becouse i recover very hard after my last cycles i was decide to start this year trt but after this i dont know how to do to recover and stay away from gear , i expect some real ED after this and im scare to use sildenafil or tadafil , my tratament is plavix and baby aspirin ... Any advice is welcome . Sorry my english !
    Hm...was pain behind shoulderblades the only discomfort/pain?

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    transilvania is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the encouragement fellas I was pleasantly surprised when I read all the posts !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    Hm...was pain behind shoulderblades the only discomfort/pain?
    yes and even doctors were amazed because it was an atypical pain

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Nac- View Post
    Not judging OP, so dont take this the wrong way, but how often did you do rudimentary bloods? Like lipids, cbc kinda stuff? Monitoring BP?
    from 1998 till now i use at least two times per year to take blood work and only the creatinin was sometimes a little bit elevate 1.20 was the max and i was having 1.23 , but colesterol was ok until now when it was 300 , tomorow i will get my hands on all bloodwork from here and i will post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Sorry to hear

    Wait till you get out of hospital to think about TRT and hormones, you are not talking to the right doctors over there.

    Stent, so you had an artery blockage. Did you usually monitored your cholesterol and blood pressure? Was there any warnings?
    from 1998 till now i use at least two times per year to take blood work and only the creatinin was sometimes a little bit elevate 1.20 was the max and i was having 1.23 , but colesterol was ok until now when it was 300 , tomorow i will get my hands on all bloodwork from here and i will post , my blood pressure was always a little bit elevate on tren , two days before was 160 with 88 , and yes you have right abouth doctors , in romania is very rare case to prescribe trt and we only have nebido , test gel and undestor in our doctors aresnal ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by transilvania View Post
    from 1998 till now i use at least two times per year to take blood work and only the creatinin was sometimes a little bit elevate 1.20 was the max and i was having 1.23 , but colesterol was ok until now when it was 300 , tomorow i will get my hands on all bloodwork from here and i will post
    What kind of anomaly was going on with heart?

    Thank you for sharing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by transilvania View Post
    in romania is very rare case to prescribe trt and we only have nebido , test gel and undestor in our doctors aresnal ...
    Get nebido then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by transilvania View Post
    from 1998 till now i use at least two times per year to take blood work and only the creatinin was sometimes a little bit elevate 1.20 was the max and i was having 1.23 , but colesterol was ok until now when it was 300 , tomorow i will get my hands on all bloodwork from here and i will post , my blood pressure was always a little bit elevate on tren , two days before was 160 with 88 , and yes you have right abouth doctors , in romania is very rare case to prescribe trt and we only have nebido , test gel and undestor in our doctors aresnal ...
    How has your diett been?
    Any heartproblemes in family?

    Stil its very strange to have a heartattack without any discomfort but pain in the upper back i think.

    U have the hdl/ldl cholestrol values also?

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    transilvania is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Recovery will be rough without serms for sure. But it doesn't mean you won't recover, it'll just take a longer period of time.
    Nothing wrong with TRT if it ends up being a necessity.
    Cialis will not hurt you. It's actually one of the healthier things a man can take for a myriad of reasons.

    I hope you recover well. Just be patient.
    Thank you kelkel ! I told them about cialis and did not even want to hear , they keep telling me that cause heart attack to many people , they tell me even 100 mg test enanthate it will causing me probable another heart attack ,I keep telling them to come up with solid arguments but nothing....

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    Quote Originally Posted by transilvania View Post
    Thank you kelkel ! I told them about cialis and did not even want to hear , they keep telling me that cause heart attack to many people , they tell me even 100 mg test enanthate it will causing me probable another heart attack ,I keep telling them to come up with solid arguments but nothing....
    They probably repute even physiologic output of Test to be a potential factor for CV disease. There is some recent research, especially regarding Nebido, that could prove them wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    How has your diett been?
    Any heartproblemes in family?

    Stil its very strange to have a heartattack without any discomfort but pain in the upper back i think.

    U have the hdl/ldl cholestrol values also?
    hdl-ldl values are in dr pc toworow i will tell you , my father and mother have a little bit elevate blood pressure they have 58 years old but no serios heart problems, my diet i admit was terrible a lot of junk food ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    They probably repute even physiologic output of Test to be a potential factor for CV disease. There is some recent research, especially regarding Nebido, that could prove them wrong.
    Yes you have right i am convinced they repute even physiologic output of test to be a potential factor for cv disease , tomorow i will meet with one friend who is a cardiologist please send me one recent study to show him

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    transilvania is offline Junior Member
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    i had an small artery blockage with plaque and a blood clot

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    Quote Originally Posted by transilvania View Post
    Thank you kelkel ! I told them about cialis and did not even want to hear , they keep telling me that cause heart attack to many people , they tell me even 100 mg test enanthate it will causing me probable another heart attack ,I keep telling them to come up with solid arguments but nothing....
    Thanks for sharing. That was a good read and I hope you have a 100% recovery! Wait til you're out and talk to a specialist. Those guys aren't the ones you need to be getting advice from about your hormones. If you need TRT, it'll be more healthy to use it than not using it and having low t. Men need healthy levels for more than just sex. Keep us updated on this journey. Some people are just predisposed to heart problems, and at your age it seems you fall in that category. I'm in the same boat. Keep getting bloodwork and do everything you can to keep your numbers in line. Heart attacks can happen with 0 signs or symptoms. And sometimes your first symptom could be your last. Consider yourself blessed and get well soon!

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    Quote Originally Posted by transilvania View Post
    i had an small artery blockage with plaque and a blood clot
    That could happen to anyone. I'd like to confront incidence on general population vs aas users.

    There are many but in my experience is useless to prove a point with old school kind of doctors. You better recover as best as you can and find a good willed endo outside the clinic.

    Most are not available to download unfortunately but some are:

    Testosterone: A Novel Therapeutic Approach in Chronic Heart Failure?

    Effect of Long-Acting Testosterone Treatment on Functional Exercise Capacity, Skeletal Muscle Performance, Insulin Resistance, and Baroreflex Sensitivity in Elderly Patients With Chronic Heart Failure: A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Randomized S

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4913536/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3720171/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4282628/


    Maybe BB and kel have more at hand.

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    Silabolin is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by transilvania View Post
    hdl-ldl values are in dr pc toworow i will tell you , my father and mother have a little bit elevate blood pressure they have 58 years old but no serios heart problems, my diet i admit was terrible a lot of junk food ...
    Ok. 40 + and a bit familyhistory and tren and cholestrol and nasty junkfood. There u got it. Could happen to everybody.

    Solution. When u come out u gotta eat a nazi healthy diett with veggies, healthy oils and the other shittasting foodtypes for 6 months. And do cardio. Easy in the start.
    Then do full bloods after 6 months.

    Then we take it from there. U have no choice. U gotta do this. And max 5 gs of salt each day. Good luck brother.

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    transilvania is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT1982 View Post
    Thanks for sharing. That was a good read and I hope you have a 100% recovery! Wait til you're out and talk to a specialist. Those guys aren't the ones you need to be getting advice from about your hormones. If you need TRT, it'll be more healthy to use it than not using it and having low t. Men need healthy levels for more than just sex. Keep us updated on this journey. Some people are just predisposed to heart problems, and at your age it seems you fall in that category. I'm in the same boat. Keep getting bloodwork and do everything you can to keep your numbers in line. Heart attacks can happen with 0 signs or symptoms. And sometimes your first symptom could be your last. Consider yourself blessed and get well soon!
    I know if i need TRT, it'll be more healthy to use it than not using it, i read a lot of studyes most of them they suggest to use trt some of them not ,im glad some one could learn from my mystakes ,surley i will keep update this journey

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    That could happen to anyone. I'd like to confront incidence on general population vs aas users.

    There are many but in my experience is useless to prove a point with old school kind of doctors. You better recover as best as you can and find a good willed endo outside the clinic.

    Most are not available to download unfortunately but some are:

    Testosterone: A Novel Therapeutic Approach in Chronic Heart Failure?

    Effect of Long-Acting Testosterone Treatment on Functional Exercise Capacity, Skeletal Muscle Performance, Insulin Resistance, and Baroreflex Sensitivity in Elderly Patients With Chronic Heart Failure: A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Randomized S

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4913536/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3720171/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4282628/


    Maybe BB and kel have more at hand.
    Thank you very much bro !

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    transilvania is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    That could happen to anyone. I'd like to confront incidence on general population vs aas users.

    There are many but in my experience is useless to prove a point with old school kind of doctors. You better recover as best as you can and find a good willed endo outside the clinic.

    Most are not available to download unfortunately but some are:

    Testosterone: A Novel Therapeutic Approach in Chronic Heart Failure?

    Effect of Long-Acting Testosterone Treatment on Functional Exercise Capacity, Skeletal Muscle Performance, Insulin Resistance, and Baroreflex Sensitivity in Elderly Patients With Chronic Heart Failure: A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Randomized S

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4913536/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3720171/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4282628/


    Maybe BB and kel have more at hand.
    Thank you very much bro !

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    transilvania is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    Ok. 40 + and a bit familyhistory and tren and cholestrol and nasty junkfood. There u got it. Could happen to everybody.

    Solution. When u come out u gotta eat a nazi healthy diett with veggies, healthy oils and the other shittasting foodtypes for 6 months. And do cardio. Easy in the start.
    Then do full bloods after 6 months.

    Then we take it from there. U have no choice. U gotta do this. And max 5 gs of salt each day. Good luck brother.
    Im 34 and half years old

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    Sorry to hear brother, unfortunately AAS effects on the heart are no joke. Especially those that are predisposed to issues.


    I wouldn't advise stopping everything cold turkey. I would stay on a low dose of TRT and just make sure you are getting frequent blood work, monitoring blood pressure, and donating blood regularly.

    I know a few guys who have had heart attacks but just reduced everything down to a TRT dose of test. I'm not talking 200mg but like 100mg a week or so, depending on where that puts your levels.

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    I agree with Biz that to immediately blame AAS at this point is a bit of a stretch. Heart issues occur for a variety of reasons to people of all age groups. Re your doc's comment that low dose cialis is dangerous shows how poorly read he is. The only time I could see it being remotely debilitating is if you suffer from low BP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    I agree with Biz that to immediately blame AAS at this point is a bit of a stretch. Heart issues occur for a variety of reasons to people of all age groups. Re your doc's comment that low dose cialis is dangerous shows how poorly read he is. The only time I could see it being remotely debilitating is if you suffer from low BP.
    the problem is that not only one dr tell me about the danger of using pde5 inhibitors and all , in romania we have 2 big clinics specializated in heart problems one is this where i am right now and all the dr tell me if i use cialis i will suffer another heart attack , but nothing concrete . sex is very important to me and i think i will wait two weeks and start a low dose of 10 mg of cialis becouse in this 5 days i have no matinal erection....God help me !

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    Thank you very much kelkel i can t wait to show this study to my cardiolog dr and hear his opinon !! One more question and sorry for the stres , if i start to use red yest rice , niacin and omega 3 6 9 and when my cholesterol is lowering how much hurt can i do if i start using 100 mg test e or cyp on week without hcg or arimidex do you think i risk my life like dr say ???

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    I like the latter study cited the best. It is a european study so lacks the pharmaceutical driving force most US studies have. The second study (a US one) does vouch for the safety of TRT but the pool is anyone who received [B]at least one injection of testosterone [B] in the study time period. This hardly represents TRT nor does it provide good data.

    Despite the studies, there remains opposition among a great many American doctors to TRT and for as scientific and study-minded as they are supposed to be, a lot seem to harbor an almost superstitious attitude about the (supposed) harmfulness of testosterone or any steroids for that matter.

    Thanks for posting up.

    As far as the OP, best of luck with your recovery!! I would concentrate first and foremost on getting healthy and out of the hospital and in good shape and tap a few of the very good resources here on the board regarding your next course of action. There are several I would trust more than doctors (and I say that with an expert knowledge of medicine and doctors in the US and internationally) regarding my PCT and future with AAS, GH, etc. Good luck!

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    MuscleScience is online now AR-Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailRunAZ View Post

    Despite the studies, there remains opposition among a great many American doctors to TRT and for as scientific and study-minded as they are supposed to be, a lot seem to harbor an almost superstitious attitude about the (supposed) harmfulness of testosterone or any steroids for that matter.

    Thanks for posting up.
    X2, it's been especially frustrating to see 30 years of science on heart disease be completely ignored by the medical establishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailRunAZ View Post
    Despite the studies, there remains opposition among a great many American doctors to TRT and for as scientific and study-minded as they are supposed to be, a lot seem to harbor an almost superstitious attitude about the (supposed) harmfulness of testosterone or any steroids for that matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    X2, it's been especially frustrating to see 30 years of science on heart disease be completely ignored by the medical establishment.

    It's amazing how decades old dogma still lingers when such advancements have been made.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    That could happen to anyone. I'd like to confront incidence on general population vs aas users.

    There are many but in my experience is useless to prove a point with old school kind of doctors. You better recover as best as you can and find a good willed endo outside the clinic.

    Most are not available to download unfortunately but some are:

    Testosterone: A Novel Therapeutic Approach in Chronic Heart Failure?

    Effect of Long-Acting Testosterone Treatment on Functional Exercise Capacity, Skeletal Muscle Performance, Insulin Resistance, and Baroreflex Sensitivity in Elderly Patients With Chronic Heart Failure: A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Randomized S

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4913536/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3720171/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4282628/


    Maybe BB and kel have more at hand.
    If anyone can find a study, it's Bizz! Thanks for sharing mate.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Sorry to hear and good luck with recovery!
    A friend of mine had a heart attack during training and put in a stent.
    He was out of hospital in three days and back in the gym.

    I checked his resting heart rate, and it was 50.

    Point is that as long as the problem is fixed; putting in a stent,
    and the damage done to the heart was small,
    you're in almost better shape after it's happened than before.

    TRT will reduce the risk of any new heart attack IMO,
    low T is more dangerous.

    I got prescribed cialis by my doctor one week after I had atrial fibrillation,
    and that's something they're worried about, PDE5i's causing fibrillation,
    but my doc just said, don't take the whole 20mg at once,
    and I said I never intended to anyway. Just 5mg here and there.

    Get advice from some other specialists,
    those you're talking to now seem to not really know,
    or just scare you from using AAS.
    But TRT is a different story, and they should know that.
    (I think they do, but think when you say TRT=cycle)

    Low T = less NO = vasoconstriction in cardiac aterioles = less blood flow to the heart. I really think it's that simple.

    Good luck!

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    Thank you again fellas for the good advices ,I was pleasantly surprised ! Three days ago I left the hospital ,the problem was not the cholesterol, my cholesterol was at the high end but in normal range , my heart attack was produced by a blood clot in right coronary artery. The first night at Intensive Care after stent immplant i had one episode of ventricular tachycardia that scared the doctors and put me 1 more day in IC but after 5 days i left the hospital with the following recommendations: limited exercise individual tolerance and medical tratament and after three months another doctor visit . They told me after a month of walking can easily start going to the gym but stay away from heavy exercises . My drugs are , Aspirin cardio 100 mg one pill day , Brilique 90 mg two pill day , Sortis 80 mg one pill day , Concor 2,5 mg one pill day , Prestarium 5mg half pill day . I fell very depressed with poor matinal erection ,12 days have passed from my last sustanon and trenbolone ena shot , but i think against dr order i will wait one or two more weeks and start 100-150 mg test week without Hcg or AI and 10 mg cialis eod ! But on the cialis intructions the say not to be use it by Men who have had a heart attack in the last three months
    Last edited by transilvania; 03-31-2017 at 05:08 AM.

  39. #39
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    Glad to hear you are feeling better, and out of hospital.

    A blood clot will not form in a healthy artery. Although blood vessels lose elasticity with age, and become more prone to this problems, you are still too young for this.

    Most likely what happened (and its the most often case in coronary heart attack) you had plaque build up on the artery (atherosclerosis), this plaque can become brittle and when breaks damages the arterial wall making a blood clot. So, while you didn't have this directly due to cholesterol, indirectly it was what created the plaque as most of the content of the plaques is cholesterol.

    I would suggest a leg doppler ultrasound to assess the plaque build up on the leg artery, this will give an idea of the level of atherosclerosis you may be suffering.

    Morning erections are not a indicator of anything. With the stress you had last week it is only normal. If you start TRT I would suggest nebido as it may have better results in the problems related to polycythemia and e2 conversion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Glad to hear you are feeling better, and out of hospital.

    A blood clot will not form in a healthy artery. Although blood vessels lose elasticity with age, and become more prone to this problems, you are still too young for this.

    Most likely what happened (and its the most often case in coronary heart attack) you had plaque build up on the artery (atherosclerosis), this plaque can become brittle and when breaks damages the arterial wall making a blood clot. So, while you didn't have this directly due to cholesterol, indirectly it was what created the plaque as most of the content of the plaques is cholesterol.

    I would suggest a leg doppler ultrasound to assess the plaque build up on the leg artery, this will give an idea of the level of atherosclerosis you may be suffering.

    Morning erections are not a indicator of anything. With the stress you had last week it is only normal. If you start TRT I would suggest nebido as it may have better results in the problems related to polycythemia and e2 conversion.
    You told me exactly what the dr said ! this plaque can become brittle and when breaks damages the arterial wall making a blood clot And they told me about erection disfunctions is most likley about the stress i had .But after starting steroids at a young age and runnin for so manny years more likely i need to be on TRT this is my personal think , and i think i will go to an endo and talk abouth in 2-3 weeks after sustanon clear my sistem !

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