Need advice, my doctor REFUSES to discuss this with me...

**Jackboned** · 04-09-2017, 02:22 PM

Hey all. I'm 36 years old, 6'3'' 200lbs and looking to start my first test cycle. I've asked my doctor about this twice and he talked me out of it twice. The first time I brought it up he prescribed 50mg a day of Clomid to elevate my low testosterone (which I'm still on), and the second time he put me on a Sermorelin loading program to elevate my HGH (I'm on a maintenance program now, 3 shots a week.) So here's my question... How do I manage side effects for a 12 week test cycle and how to I manage PCT considering the meds I'm currently on? I'm not sure what to do... I've heard 4 weeks of 100mg daily clomid for PCT, I've heard Nolva is basically the same thing, and I've heard about HCG . I'm also not sure whether I should get off the Clomid while I'm cycling or stay on it. Anyone who has any insight on all this, please advise. Thanks!

**MuscleScience** · 04-09-2017, 02:35 PM

Better off going to and HRT/anti aging doc. Even most endow
Don't have enough experience to properly help.

**Jackboned** · 04-09-2017, 02:36 PM

I appreciate the response, and thats a great idea. My doctor actually does a lot of TRT clients but for some reason he just refuses to advise me on this.

**Marcus G** · 04-09-2017, 02:38 PM

So do you have low testosterone ?

**Jackboned** · 04-09-2017, 02:42 PM

I did 3 years ago yes, my testosterone levels were extremely low. It was a REALLY bad time in my life so I don't know if that's why my test was so low or if its just naturally low. "On the floor" was the expression he used. Thats why he put me on Clomid, and it worked... It brought my test levels right to the middle of the normal range, which is where it is now.

**Marcus G** · 04-09-2017, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Jackboned

I did 3 years ago yes, my testosterone levels were extremely low. It was a REALLY bad time in my life so I don't know if that's why my test was so low or if its just naturally low. "On the floor" was the expression he used. Thats why he put me on Clomid, and it worked... It brought my test levels right to the middle of the normal range, which is where it is now.

It wouldn't be wise to start using synthetic testosterone or any other AAS because of your history of low T. When you come off you'll be even more shut down then you were 3 years ago which will have an effect on your recovery.

**Jackboned** · 04-09-2017, 03:42 PM

I'm concerned about that yes... This is why I'm asking. I'm not going to start a cycle unless I have a viable exit strategy lol. Is there any other way I can elevate my testosterone levels ? Or any other recommendation? I'm looking to gain mass.

**Marcus G** · 04-09-2017, 04:05 PM

Are you using and AI?

**Jackboned** · 04-09-2017, 04:19 PM

Nope, but I haven't started a cycle yet... I'm on Clomid and Sermorelin from my doc. I guess Clomid qualifies?

**Marcus G** · 04-09-2017, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Jackboned

Nope, but I haven't started a cycle yet... I'm on Clomid and Sermorelin from my doc. I guess Clomid qualifies?

You probably don't need one at just 50mg of clomid per day but your doctor should be giving you regular blood testing to clarify that??

**Marcus G** · 04-09-2017, 04:31 PM

The only way to do a cycle as safe as possible would to get bloods done of total T and free T FSH, LH Estrogen so when you come off your cycle and do pct and re do blood work you'll know where you stand

**songdog** · 04-09-2017, 04:58 PM

Well you talked about a cycle not TRT and just get another Doctor who listens.

**Jackboned** · 04-09-2017, 05:24 PM

I agree. I guess I need to just find a new doctor.

**Jackboned** · 04-09-2017, 05:25 PM

Well I'm not necessarily looking to start TRT… The question is can I do a 12 week cycle of test, then pct and then taper back into my regular Clomid program without fucking everything up.

**AR's King Silabolin** · 04-09-2017, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Jackboned

Well I'm not necessarily looking to start TRT… The question is can I do a 12 week cycle of test, then pct and then taper back into my regular Clomid program without fucking everything up.

Yes u can. But i guess you need more clomid and nolvadex before u taper back to you 50 mg ed schedule.

**kelkel** · 04-09-2017, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jackboned

Well I'm not necessarily looking to start TRT… The question is can I do a 12 week cycle of test, then pct and then taper back into my regular Clomid program without fucking everything up.

News flash. Clomid therapy is TRT. You need to find a new fvckin doctor like MS mentioned. Yours told you your T was on the floor, didn't seem to bother to find out why and just gave you clomid. You also need to self-educate a bit more and understand the function of clomid compared to TRT with actual testosterone .

Yes, you can do a cycle. Simply follow the Successful First Cycle thread at the top of this forum. Clomid will be useless once you present exogenous testosterone into your system so it will not be necessary to take during the cycle. Also understand that any cycle will shut down HPTA function afterwhich you'd have to restart your system via pct with serms, either clomid or clomid and nolva. Problem is, you'll only go back to the same levels that clomid maintains for you now, or possibly less.

All that said, step one should be to find a new doctor and try to find out what the actual problem is before you try a cycle. Obtaining a copy of the blood work your did just prior to clomid therapy may help greatly.

**Jackboned** · 04-09-2017, 06:56 PM

Very much appreciated. Self-educating is exactly what I'm here for, so thanks for helping with that. As I understand it now, Clomid makes my body think my estrogen levels are high, and it responds by ramping up my test production. I understand this is a totally different strategy from supplementing with synthetic testosterone . I also understand that post cycle, once I'm tapered back down to my usual clomid regimen, I'll be back at normal levels or slightly lower than normal... What I don't want is to lower my baseline test production any further because its already apparently naturally low. When I had that bloodwork done, we discovered my thyroid was slightly underactive, vitamin D deficient, and my test was very low. I had just gone through a horrendous divorce and I was massively depressed, and he knew that so maybe he just assumed it everything was off because of that... He prescribed the Clomid, synthroid , and Vitamin D supplements, all of which brought everything back to normal levels.

**kelkel** · 04-09-2017, 07:13 PM

You have it backwards. They trick your hypothalymus into thinking there's not enough estrogen, thus causing it to ramp up production downstream from there. Depression and stress can effect multiple physiological processes in the body, including T production. Not to mention that hypothyroidism causes hypogonadism. Fix one and you may fix the other. It would have been nice to handle your thyroid first, then see where your T level landed from there.

Most in North America are Vit D deficient. It's a hormone, not a vitamin and one of the best a person can take. It can help elevate free testosterone by virtue of suppressing shbg in your blood. Also know that it's fat soluble so take it with a large meal and don't maintain levels that are over the top of the range as over time excessive levels can be toxic.

If I were you, I'd be curious how your natural T levels would do if you were to cease the clomid supplementation. It's really the only way to see what your levels really are. Then you can assess what course of action to take, be it TRT or not.

Just my thoughts.

**Jackboned** · 04-09-2017, 07:19 PM

Very good info, thank you sir. My thyroid and vitamin d are good now... I agree I'm curious to know what my natural levels are now. I've asked my doc about getting off the Clomid but he really isn't a great listener obviously, and he just brushed it off. He is a hot mess... He's a personal friend which is probably part of the problem. Maybe I'll stop taking the clomid for a few weeks and then have new bloodwork done. If everything looks normal then I may have a course of action.

**kelkel** · 04-09-2017, 07:28 PM

Most docs don't know hormones well unfortunately. Clomid works and is especially functional for those who are younger and are interested in maintaing fertility. Other than that, it's really not used that much as the subjective benefits don't seem to compare to testosterone supplementation. Regarding finding out what your natural levels would be you'd be best staying off for probably at least a month or more to allow your levels to normalize. Right now they're hyperstimulated via the serm (clomid) so pulling BW to quickly can give a false, elevated reading.

If you were coming off a cycle and trying to restart your HPTA I'd recommend at least 8 weeks for BW. In your case you're not restarting anything, just removing the hypothalymic "stimulant" from the equation. How long it will take to normalize would be a guess for me.

**MuscleScience** · 04-09-2017, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Most docs don't know hormones well unfortunately. Clomid works and is especially functional for those who are younger and are interested in maintaing fertility. Other than that, it's really not used that much as the subjective benefits don't seem to compare to testosterone supplementation. Regarding finding out what your natural levels would be you'd be best staying off for probably at least a month or more to allow your levels to normalize. Right now they're hyperstimulated via the serm (clomid) so pulling BW to quickly can give a false, elevated reading.

If you were coming off a cycle and trying to restart your HPTA I'd recommend at least 8 weeks for BW. In your case you're not restarting anything, just removing the hypothalymic "stimulant" from the equation. How long it will take to normalize would be a guess for me.

Originally Posted by kelkel

You have it backwards. They trick your hypothalymus into thinking there's not enough estrogen, thus causing it to ramp up production downstream from there. Depression and stress can effect multiple physiological processes in the body, including T production. Not to mention that hypothyroidism causes hypogonadism. Fix one and you may fix the other. It would have been nice to handle your thyroid first, then see where your T level landed from there.

Most in North America are Vit D deficient. It's a hormone, not a vitamin and one of the best a person can take. It can help elevate free testosterone by virtue of suppressing shbg in your blood. Also know that it's fat soluble so take it with a large meal and don't maintain levels that are over the top of the range as over time excessive levels can be toxic.

If I were you, I'd be curious how your natural T levels would do if you were to cease the clomid supplementation. It's really the only way to see what your levels really are. Then you can assess what course of action to take, be it TRT or not.

Just my thoughts.

Great info Kel

**ScotchGuard02** · 04-10-2017, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Jackboned

Hey all. I'm 36 years old, 6'3'' 200lbs and looking to start my first test cycle. I've asked my doctor about this twice and he talked me out of it twice. The first time I brought it up he prescribed 50mg a day of Clomid to elevate my low testosterone (which I'm still on), and the second time he put me on a Sermorelin loading program to elevate my HGH (I'm on a maintenance program now, 3 shots a week.) So here's my question... How do I manage side effects for a 12 week test cycle and how to I manage PCT considering the meds I'm currently on? I'm not sure what to do... I've heard 4 weeks of 100mg daily clomid for PCT, I've heard Nolva is basically the same thing, and I've heard about HCG. I'm also not sure whether I should get off the Clomid while I'm cycling or stay on it. Anyone who has any insight on all this, please advise. Thanks!

My GP was totally against TRT. Then I talked to a Endo who said, if you need it I'll give you a script for TRT. If you're talking to your GP, just get a referral to an Endo. Most GP's know little about endocrinology anyways.

**Jackboned** · 04-11-2017, 02:49 PM

He actually offered to refer me to an endo, but at this point it would be cheaper for me to just be on black market test indefinitely than it would be to go through my insurance to see a doc and get prescription meds, which is of course ridiculous. I've gotten some really great info on here though, and I think I have a strategy. I'm gonna stop the clomid and check my levels in a month. If my testosterone level is normal, then I'll have a good indication that the low test was caused by the low thyroid, and with the thyroid regulated I shouldn't have a need for long term TRT. Then I can initiate a cycle with the standard PCT afterwards. But ultimately the proof will be in the bloodwork, so I guess we'll just see.