Swap out Tren for *what* at Week 9?

[Kai Lover]

My next cycle will be 3 months long, and it will be Test P & Tren A for the first two months.

Gains will have slowed down quite a lot coming into the third month, so I want to swap the Tren out for something else to make the most of the last 4 weeks.

I was going to go with Winstrol for this (along with Clenbuterol) but I had a liver injury 3 years ago and so I'm not sure about taking 17-alpha-alkylated steroids.

What would YOU switch to in the ninth week?

[matt thebeard]

so is this a cutting cycle or a bulking cycle? liver damage I think id be real careful

[Kai Lover]

I only do 1 cycle per year so I don't really do 'bulking' or 'cutting' cycles. I try to bulk at the beginning of the cycle for 8 weeks, and then cut for the last 4 weeks.

[kelkel]

Don't you think 8 weeks is enough with prop and A?

[Bio-Active]

Are you getting ready for a show?

[Eduke93]

No need to swap anything. Gains will still be steady.

Scrap the short esters though and go for test e and tren e and run it for the 12 weeks or just do a 2 month cycle of the short esters...

Id keep away from orals if you have had a liver injury...

Also with regards to bulking at the start of a cycle and cutting at the end of the cycle, scrap that idea and focus on one thing or the other... Otherwise your just going to waste your time.

[Cuz]

What's your cycle look like?

[Kai Lover]

What's your cycle look like?

Week 1-12 : Minimum dose of Testosterone (about 85mg per week)
Week 1-12 : Daily dose of hCG to keep my balls alive (about 250 IU twice per week)
Week 1-8 : Trenbolone Acetate 150mg EOD
Week 8-12 : Winstrol 50mg ED
Week 8-9 : Clenbuterol 20mcg ED (I've never taken it before so I'm starting with a low dose)
Week 9-12 : Clenbuterol 50mcg ED
Week 14-16 : PCT of Clomiphene & Tamoxifen

This is like a bulking cycle for the first 8 weeks and then a cutting cycle for the last four weeks.

Not sure if I'll take something to 'kickstart' the cycle because Tren should in theory be all the kickstart I need.

[Kai Lover]

Don't you think 8 weeks is enough with prop and A?

I've always run 12-week cycles (I've run about 8 or 9 of them). I thought it might be a neat idea to bulk as much as I can for 8 weeks and then to cut for the last four.

Are you getting ready for a show?

No, I don't compete in bodybuilding shows. I'm not even nearly near that level.

Scrap the short esters though and go for test e and tren e

I'll put some thought into this. I've actually done 3 cycles with Tren E before, and only one with Tren A. I find Tren A is a lot easier to work with when it comes to tweaking the dosage. For instance I increased to 200mg EOD once before and my willy started feeling a little bit numb, but I was fine within a couple of days as I reduced my next shot two days later. It's not as handy with the longer Enanthate ester.

[Capebuffalo]

Stats?

[Back In Black]

Don't you think 8 weeks is enough with prop and A?

I agree.

Plus only a 3 week PCT?

Bulk or cut not both, results are rarely what people want when they try and do both. Try a recomp if you like but results are rarely what people think either.

[ScotchGuard02]

Week 1-12 : Minimum dose of Testosterone (about 85mg per week) At your age, your body will naturally produce about 70mg/wk of Test. Why would you suppress everything just for a Test replacement, barely a replacement.
I'd be at least at 250mg/wk of Test. The Test will work well with the Tren.
Week 1-12 : Daily dose of hCG to keep my balls alive (about 250 IU twice per week)
Week 1-8 : Trenbolone Acetate 150mg EOD
Week 8-12 : Winstrol 50mg ED
Week 8-9 : Clenbuterol 20mcg ED (I've never taken it before so I'm starting with a low dose)
Week 9-12 : Clenbuterol 50mcg ED
Week 14-16 : PCT of Clomiphene & Tamoxifen

This is like a bulking cycle for the first 8 weeks and then a cutting cycle for the last four weeks.

Not sure if I'll take something to 'kickstart' the cycle because Tren should in theory be all the kickstart I need.

You should have about 5 or 6 cycles under your belt before you run Tren. Tren's a double edged sword. If you're going to run a 19nor, you need to be taking caber or prami. After the first 8 week of Tren, I don't think you're going to see much more gains from the oral. You should just stop your cycle after 8 weeks and call it good.

[Kai Lover]

You should have about 5 or 6 cycles under your belt before you run Tren. Tren's a double edged sword. If you're going to run a 19nor, you need to be taking caber or prami. After the first 8 week of Tren, I don't think you're going to see much more gains from the oral. You should just stop your cycle after 8 weeks and call it good.

This is my fourth of fifth Tren cycle, and about my eighth or ninth overall. This will be my 2nd time running the Acetate ester.

[kelkel]

Do you ever run BW on cycle Kai? If not you should. It would probably be eye opening.
Re the amount of Tren-A. No one needs that much (150 eod). Even competing guys don't need that much.
Be careful.

[Kai Lover]

Do you ever run BW on cycle Kai? If not you should. It would probably be eye opening.
Re the amount of Tren-A. No one needs that much (150 eod). Even competing guys don't need that much.
Be careful.

In Winter last year I ran the following for 12 weeks:
Tren A @ 150mg EOD
TestBlend(4 esters) @ 100mg EOD

I tried upping the Tren to 200mg EOD but then I noticed numbness in my willy. I reduced my next dose and the numbness went away. The whole 12-week cycle went fine, my cardio wasn't even affected!

One time I ran Tren E at over a gram per week but I ended up in serious trouble... my resting heart rate was 110 at one point and I ended up in hospital with my liver (however I attribute that to the dianabol tablets I was taking). I also had severe anorgasmia.

To be honest I had considered the possibility of taking Tren A @ 200mg EOD along with a DA such as cabergoline to counteract the willy numbness. I dunno if it would be worth the other problems though (increased heart rate, cholesterol and all that).

Yeah I've run bloodwork during cycles before ... the last time probably saved my life ... I asked my doc only to test for prolactin but he did a full liver profile and gave me a phone call the next day saying "Get to the hospital, your liver's going to fail" (my ALT was 2800).

[kelkel]

So why run such larch doses then Kai? Especially since you can do well with much less.

[Kai Lover]

So why run such larch doses then Kai? Especially since you can do well with much less.

Do you really think Tren A @ 150mg EOD is high?

I suppose I just figure that it's 50% more than 100mg EOD so that must mean 50% more gains ........okay I realise I won't get 50% more gains but I might get something like 15% more gains.

I have people telling me to run the Test at about 250mg/wk (instead of 85mg/wk) but I'm hesitant to do so as I imagine the Testosterone molecules clogging up the androgen receptors -- and I want Trenbolone molecules in there instead.

[kelkel]

Yes, I think it's absolutely unnecessary unless competing at a relatively high level. Don't fall into the trap that you always need more to make gains. Improve your nutrition and training (everyone can) and you'll make progress and be more apt to keep it. For example I'm relatively advanced at this game and my current cycle is 400 test and 250 deca and I'm making great gains. More is not always better is my point.

Regarding the test 85 mgs may be just fine for you. It's not as if it's long term TRT. I'm not so sure I'd buy into all this internet dogma about clogging up AR's. You have plenty to go around.

[charger69]

You had liver problems... Are you taking NAC?
You have received a great deal of advice from some of the best, i hope that you are processing this. Truthfully, it appears that you are trying to substantiate why you are doing what you are doing rather than absorbing the information given. I am hopefully wrong. I am still stuck on why you are taking a 17 aa with your situaiton.
Scrap the winnie and the clen. Let diet do the cutting. Also, pick one or the other and go with it (cutting or bulk). This is not a sprint.

[Cuz]

In Winter last year I ran the following for 12 weeks:
Tren A @ 150mg EOD
TestBlend(4 esters) @ 100mg EOD

I tried upping the Tren to 200mg EOD but then I noticed numbness in my willy. I reduced my next dose and the numbness went away. The whole 12-week cycle went fine, my cardio wasn't even affected!

One time I ran Tren E at over a gram per week but I ended up in serious trouble... my resting heart rate was 110 at one point and I ended up in hospital with my liver (however I attribute that to the dianabol tablets I was taking). I also had severe anorgasmia.

To be honest I had considered the possibility of taking Tren A @ 200mg EOD along with a DA such as cabergoline to counteract the willy numbness. I dunno if it would be worth the other problems though (increased heart rate, cholesterol and all that).

Yeah I've run bloodwork during cycles before ... the last time probably saved my life ... I asked my doc only to test for prolactin but he did a full liver profile and gave me a phone call the next day saying "Get to the hospital, your liver's going to fail" (my ALT was 2800).

Should be a red flag warning there bud

[Cuz]

Also it puzzles me you say you are no way on a competitive level but you have 9 cycles under your belt?

[Kai Lover]

Also it puzzles me you say you are no way on a competitive level but you have 9 cycles under your belt?

I've been in and out of rehabs the last few years. I haven't been able to maintain a lifestyle to maintain gains.

I think that's changing though. I am consistently getting up a 5:25am on weekdays and cooking my own decent food every day (e.g. oatmeal with fruit and yoghurt and seeds for breakfast, chopping vegetables for dinner), and I'm in bed by 10pm.

I'm not back working yet so I've very little money. Hopefully I'll have a fulltime job soon (anything at all like stacking shelves) and I'll keep going to the gym at 6am, and I'll have the money to maintain a decent diet.

I think I've got about 8 or 9 cycles under my belt. They went like:
1: TestBlend(4 Esters)
2: Test & Deca & Dbol
3: Anavar only
4: TestBlend & Tren E
5: TestBlend & Tren E
6: TestBlend & Dianabol & Tren E @ 1.2g/wk (this one put me in hospital for 4.5 weeks)
7: Anavar only
8: Test P & Tren A @ 150mg EOD (this was in Winter 2016)

So I think the next one will be my ninth. I won't start it until I've been working a 9 to 5 for a solid month and have money to maintain a decent diet.

Are you taking NAC?

No I'm not taking any medication at all right now.

You might think I'm crazy to be even considering taking orals after the liver injury I sustained, but consider that the docs told me to "live a normal life". At some point in the future I might go to a specialist liver doctor and ask him to do an ultrasound and every other test he can do to determine the health of my liver.

[charger69]

You feel that your life is turning around. You have been sent wake up calls, listen to them. Do not take AAS until you have a clean bill of health. You never provided your stats so it is also dificult to make any recomendations.
Your liver will heal itself if it can but you need to allow it to.
BTW- NAC is not medicine, it is a supplement that helps the liver. Valot of people take it off and on cycle, but change the qty when taxing the liver on cycle.
Also, i did not see an AI. Maybe I missed it

[Kai Lover]

Also, i did not see an AI. Maybe I missed it

I don't take an AI, as the only aromatising steroid I take is testosterone and I only take about 85mg/wk of it (just enough for necessary bodily function). There's no need for an AI at that dose.

Also I've come to the conclusion after running 8 cycles that I'm immune to gynocomastia and hair loss. I was running Test at 1.5g/wk and Tren at 1.2g/wk at one point and didn't have a problem with gyno or my hair.

Of course it's good to keep estrogen down for reasons other than gyno and hair (e.g. it's a carcinogen), but I don't think that's necessary at 85mg/wk.

[Myers]

A bit of advice here:

Sort your life out first , thats the most important thing to do, aas under stress is a no-no.

Hopefully i'll have a job - i'd want to make most out of a cycle like this , so i'd wait for a steady job , nothing pushes you to cycle right now

With every cycle we put ourselves at some risk, at least give that risk a good meaning , and do it the best you can