Tren Gains

**MToption2** · 08-12-2017, 02:32 AM

Everyone says you gain more muscle with Tren but whenever people ask in detail the actual difference in muscle gains vs a bulking Test cycle, the results aren't what they'd expected. Yes, Tren always gives you far more vascularity and strength. I know. I'm talking about quality muscle gains.

I think the 5x more anabolic than Test claim is bs. Is it more like 2x or 1.5x?

Other questions:
2. Does Tren bloat only happen with higher doses? I'm able to control my Test bloat fairly well by restricting sodium and not over doing the carbs.
3. Is the Alzheimers connection irrelevant? Rats to human equivalent dosage would be 2+ grams weekly long term. Wouldn't the cause instead be the chronic insomnia/sleep deprivation, impaired liver, lungs, high blood pressure, etc? Not Tren directly messing with brain cells lol right?
4. I heard from many users Mast prevents a good amount of the psychological emotional side effects of Tren. Do you find this true?

Thanks ya'll

**Kai Lover** · 08-12-2017, 03:54 AM

What attracted me to Trenbolone at first was that they used it for transporting cattle. You know you've got the good stuff if that's what they're using it for.

I've done four Tren cycles. The first three were the Enanthate ester, and my last one last Winter was the Acetate ester.

I was freaking out on my first Tren cycle, I found the side-effects a bit much, the lack of sleep, the sweating, the heart rate.

I don't know if I'm just more psychologically hardy now, or if my body has adapted to it, but I can do 12 week of Acetate at 150mg EOD now and I feel fine.

I put on about 10-20 pounds every time I catch the Tren train.

I've never taken Masteron ... I'm reading up on it now

**Eduke93** · 08-12-2017, 08:11 AM

I've ran Tren at 800mg p/w with no bloat, I have also used mast with Tren didn't seem to effect any of the phycological effects... I was still a moody short tempered tosser lol

With regards to the comparing it to test, I'm unsure if it is 5x more powerful. From experience between the two I'd say 2.5-3x.

I love Tren though, my cycles only really consist of low test at about 200mg p/w (my trt dose) and then 600-800mg Tren. Although I'm experimenting with Deca at the moment.

**guitarzan** · 08-12-2017, 08:18 AM

I've tren and tren/mast, I can't tell tell a difference as far as sides go. Then again, I don't have psychological problems with tren, other than aggression

**Kai Lover** · 08-12-2017, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by guitarzan

I've tren and tren/mast, I can't tell tell a difference as far as sides go. Then again, I don't have psychological problems with tren, other than aggression

Is it worth taking the Masteron too? I'm planning my next cycle (Test P & Tren A) and I'm looking for something else to throw in at the start, and I'd prefer something easy on the liver (so that's a no to Dianabol ).

**guitarzan** · 08-12-2017, 08:37 AM

It wasn't for me, too fat. You have to be pretty lean to benifit from mast.

**hammerheart** · 08-12-2017, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by MToption2

Everyone says you gain more muscle with Tren but whenever people ask in detail the actual difference in muscle gains vs a bulking Test cycle, the results aren't what they'd expected. Yes, Tren always gives you far more vascularity and strength. I know. I'm talking about quality muscle gains.

I think the 5x more anabolic than Test claim is bs. Is it more like 2x or 1.5x?

Other questions:
2. Does Tren bloat only happen with higher doses? I'm able to control my Test bloat fairly well by restricting sodium and not over doing the carbs.
3. Is the Alzheimers connection irrelevant? Rats to human equivalent dosage would be 2+ grams weekly long term. Wouldn't the cause instead be the chronic insomnia/sleep deprivation, impaired liver, lungs, high blood pressure, etc? Not Tren directly messing with brain cells lol right?
4. I heard from many users Mast prevents a good amount of the psychological emotional side effects of Tren. Do you find this true?

Thanks ya'll

1) The anabolic ratings are true only in vitro and an animal models, they have no application to humans and real life situations.
2) You shouldn't bloat on TREN but GI sides such gallbladder dismotility and reflux can happen
3) Not to my knowledge, there is one study around made by two graduate, Chinese students of Veterinary/biomechanics (If I do recall well? not medicine btw) where they injected TREN straight into the hyppocampus ehehehe what a method
4) Nope, unless you are high in estrogen, which you want to avoid while on TREN as it will make sides much worse.

**Bio-Active** · 08-12-2017, 08:17 PM

There is not a one fits all I'm sure you know that. I am one of the few that get very little sides from tren . I like the way it makes me look but I like the way I feel much better on deca . I get hardly any sides from either. Tren makes me a little more tired were I have tons of energy on deca

**MuscleScience** · 08-12-2017, 08:36 PM

Tren isn't called the golden God without reason.

**Cuz** · 08-12-2017, 10:58 PM

600-800 mg of tren wow...must be watered down, 75mg eod was too much for me the first and only tren cycle I ran, insane gains while I was on it though....not needed unless you are competing imho.

**Bio-Active** · 08-12-2017, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Cuz

600-800 mg of tren wow...must be watered down, 75mg eod was too much for me the first and only tren cycle I ran, insane gains while I was on it though....not needed unless you are competing imho.

I run between 6-800 with almost no sides

**Cuz** · 08-12-2017, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bio-Active

I run between 6-800 with almost no sides

I'd went into the hospital with that dose, goes to show were all different bro

**KINGKONG** · 08-13-2017, 04:01 AM

How much stronger than test Iam not sure but mg for mg it is def much stronger..I cannot run over 300mg a wk without sleep and anxiety issues..as said above we are all diff ..I've run 600 before but would get a decent nights sleep eod and by decent I mean 5 hours but my pumps in the gym and strength were great..I recently experimented with tren no ester but it still wasn't coming outta my system quick enough ..I would shoot when I woke but it was still with me when I would lay down to sleep and that was water based?the lack of sleep and excess cortisol cancels out the extra gains..a little deca along with my test is what Iam sticking too from now on.

**powerliftmike** · 08-13-2017, 11:59 AM

For me higher dose testosterone is better for strength, two of those reasons being I can bloat up a bit and eat more calories. After several weeks on tren I experience appetite suppression from it and adding in extra calories becomes a real pain. The lack of good sleep cancels out some of its positives too. Now for the shredded look tren is superior, but honestly for athletic purposes or bulking it is pretty poor. Kills cardio capacity which is a huge negative for sport. For me has most side effects and most testosterone shutdown than anything else and Ive taken all the mainstream AAS out there. I prefer the enanthate ester over acetate as I find the most severe tren cough problems are immediately after or during injection; so the less frequent the injects, the less I experience this.

For translating to real world gains I wouldnt pay the anabolic and androgen multipliers much attention. Certainly expecting "5x" more strength or mass or postulating that 1000mg/wk of test will give same results as 200mg/wk of tren (1/5th the amount) would be incorrect.

And for a side note since you asked about Masteron . It is my favorite AAS (aside from test) of them all. I would caution on practicing polypharmacy or adding in things (like masteron to counter tren effects, etc) to combat other drugs. I always felt the test/mast/tren stack was popular because you are taking a test, DHT derivative, and a 19-nor together which act in slightly different pathways rather than to counter some sides; hence probably why many guys sub in Winstrol for the Masteron.

**MToption2** · 08-13-2017, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by powerliftmike

Now for the shredded look tren is superior, but honestly for athletic purposes or bulking it is pretty poor.

Yeah, it's a better cutting agent than bulking. My original plan was to dirty bulk on a moderate dose but I changed that. I heard very high carbs/caloric surplus on Tren contributes bigly to the night sweats. Not sure if true.
I'm gonna go with a nice slow lean bulk with Tren/Test/Mast. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it but Mast and Winstrol are both DHT derivatives. Mast spares the liver quite a bit more though. Wouldn't it be better to keep Mast in instead? The Mast is only to make the Tren hopefully a little more tolerable. That in and of itself makes it worth it to me. My hairline is gonna love this!

I know Deca , DBol , etc are usually better for bulking but I really don't want to deal with the water weight, bloated, soft, moon face anymore. I'm finally at ~12% bf now.

Thanks for the rest of the info!

Killing cardio capacity won't be a huge concern with siberian winter almost here again where I live.

**MToption2** · 08-13-2017, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by KINGKONG

the lack of sleep and excess cortisol cancels out the extra gains..a little deca along with my test is what Iam sticking too from now on.

I thought Test and especially Tren would block cortisol production?

**MToption2** · 08-13-2017, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bio-Active

There is not a one fits all I'm sure you know that. I am one of the few that get very little sides from tren. I like the way it makes me look but I like the way I feel much better on deca. I get hardly any sides from either. Tren makes me a little more tired were I have tons of energy on deca

5'6 with 800mg tolerable Tren ?! Ho lee chit. I've noticed the day of injection and into the next, I have lots of good energy. But days 3, 4, etc I feel normal again until my next shot lol.

Deca is your favorite bulking tool?

**MToption2** · 08-13-2017, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

1) The anabolic ratings are true only in vitro and an animal models, they have no application to humans and real life situations.
2) You shouldn't bloat on TREN but GI sides such gallbladder dismotility and reflux can happen
3) Not to my knowledge, there is one study around made by two graduate, Chinese students of Veterinary/biomechanics (If I do recall well? not medicine btw) where they injected TREN straight into the hyppocampus ehehehe what a method

1. What has been your lean mass gain differences between the two?

2. Gallbladder dismotility and acid reflux. I eat super super healthy now. This surely would help reduce my risk factor?

3. Why would they inject it straight into the brain? Wouldn't injecting anything STRAIGHT into the brain put massive stress on it? Confused.

**hammerheart** · 08-13-2017, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by MToption2

1. What has been your lean mass gain differences between the two?

2. Gallbladder dismotility and acid reflux. I eat super super healthy now. This surely would help reduce my risk factor?

3. Why would they inject it straight into the brain? Wouldn't injecting anything STRAIGHT into the brain put massive stress on it? Confused.

1) I'm more of a TRT patient than a cycle guy but I like to experiment. What I noticed is I have been able to restore my natural muscle mass (was underweight to start with) with upper end TRT (let's say 250mg weekly) and proper E2 control but I experienced none with up to 300mg Tren -E. Strength and pumps/vascularity also are better on a good dose of TEST than TREN. It's individual.

2. Eating healthy won't help GI sides are progestin sides. Moderating the dose can though.

3. What I meant is that study was a retarded one made by incompetent students. Doesn't mean TREN won't mess with your brain if you don't respect it, up dose slowly and see where your own optimal balance between effectiveness and sides is.

**Bio-Active** · 08-13-2017, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by MToption2

5'6 with 800mg tolerable Tren ?! Ho lee chit. I've noticed the day of injection and into the next, I have lots of good energy. But days 3, 4, etc I feel normal again until my next shot lol.

Deca is your favorite bulking tool?

I pin my tren 3 x ew just out of convince cause I can only get 3 ml in the pin I also run tren e. So I do 200 mon we'd and sat. Test is e 3.5 days. I can cut or bulk on either but yeah I'll run deca in the winter and try to pack on muscle were during the summer on tren I don't have to eat as clean and still stay super lean on tren

**Kai Lover** · 08-13-2017, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

3. What I meant is that study was a retarded one made by incompetent students. Doesn't mean TREN won't mess with your brain if you don't respect it, up dose slowly and see where your own optimal balance between effectiveness and sides is.

My sweet spot is Tren A @ 150mg EOD

**powerliftmike** · 08-13-2017, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by MToption2

Maybe I'm oversimplifying it but Mast and Winstrol are both DHT derivatives. Mast spares the liver quite a bit more though. Wouldn't it be better to keep Mast in instead?

Sorry for confusion I was just saying I've known state and regional quality bodybuilders that use winstrol instead; I was just making the point of it being a popular DHT in an attempt to work in tandem with test and tren . I personally hate winstrol as I get joint paint and have racked up several injuries on it that took months (and in one case 2 years) to fully recover from. Of course Masteron is much much less toxic to the body than winstrol too.