we need more studies done on hormone levels and mental health

**hxt** · 08-13-2017, 01:34 PM

as we all know, there is without a doubt a correlation between skewered hormone levels and depression/anxiety/brain fog, etc.. scientists have been discovering that SSRIs really are useless when it comes to aiding these mental health issues and that serotonin deficiencies aren't the real cause of depression and anxiety. many of us on here have experiences symptoms of low T, high E2, or low E2, and we understand how they make us feel. when e2 is high im emotional and irritable, when it is low, I am exhausted and depressed. same with my test being low. when my test is on the higher end of the spectrum and e2 within range, nothing phases me. no anxiety, depression, OCD, brain fog. I can think clearly and rationally. now as we have seem mental health issues have been rising in our youth today, are their hormone levels being compromised due to our current lazy lifestyle choices? people are less likely to exercise and practice good posture due to our sedentary lifestyle of sitting, both exercise and posture have been proven to be beneficial to testosterone production.
a few studies that have suggested that mental health issues may be related to hormone deficiencies:
PTSD patients found to have had hormone deficiencies before deploying: https://www.everydayhealth.com/healt...-for-vets.aspx
Testosterone levels may be correlated to Bipolar disorder https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3810946/
women are known to be more anxious and emotional than men on average. now is this due to gender expectations or hormone levels?

**Marcus G** · 08-13-2017, 01:50 PM

I agree i think that hormone imbalances are a key factor in mental health. I also think people who are looking into using hormones e.I. AAS aren't aware of this and the ones who hear about it largely dismiss it. More over I think young people are more at risk of developing mental health issues from hormones than people over 25...

**MuscleScience** · 08-13-2017, 03:02 PM

No money in it, balancing someone's endocrine system with already available cheap drugs is not as profitable as a newer better version of Wellbutrin.

**anoxicblaze** · 08-13-2017, 03:48 PM

I was becoming psychotic on SSRI's and had horrific brain zaps . I'm now almost completely off them and 13 weeks or so into my TRT and feel much better for it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**hammerheart** · 08-13-2017, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by hxt

as we all know, there is without a doubt a correlation between skewered hormone levels and depression/anxiety/brain fog, etc.. scientists have been discovering that SSRIs really are useless when it comes to aiding these mental health issues and that serotonin deficiencies aren't the real cause of depression and anxiety. many of us on here have experiences symptoms of low T, high E2, or low E2, and we understand how they make us feel. when e2 is high im emotional and irritable, when it is low, I am exhausted and depressed.

Serotonin is largely overrated. More than antidepressant is sedative. It just mellows your brain out to the point everything, either good or bad, doesn't matter anymore.

I'm reading of many depressives though obtaining good response from low dose SSRI taken through the day, much like we TRT patients do with biweekly protocols as opposed to old school approaches.

**hammerheart** · 08-13-2017, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by anoxicblaze

brain zaps

I had those from tryptophan and 5-HTP supplements already.

**hxt** · 08-13-2017, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Marcus G

I agree i think that hormone imbalances are a key factor in mental health. I also think people who are looking into using hormones e.I. AAS aren't aware of this and the ones who hear about it largely dismiss it. More over I think young people are more at risk of developing mental health issues from hormones than people over 25...

our youth's endocrine systems are compromised based on their lifestyle choices they don't need to be balanced by HRT, but rather by optimizing the hormones naturally: (eating clean, sleeping, lifting weights, being competitive). when we take competition out of factor we destroy an environment that promotes testosterone :

heres a study done on the relationship between successful businessmen and testosterone levels :
Harvard Study on Testosterone and Success | Columbus OH Physical Medicine | Buckeye Physical Medicine and Rehab

"Men with high testosterone levels and low cortisol levels had the most employees under them and so were the most profitable businesses.
Men with high testosterone levels, but with HIGH cortisol had somewhat fewer employees and had somewhat less successful businesses.
Men with LOW testosterone levels and HIGH cortisol had the LEAST number of employees and the least profitable businesses."

another study showed that the average testosterone level of men in the U.S. has dropped greatly in the past 30 years
The Mystery of Declining Testosterone - Craig Cooper

**hxt** · 08-13-2017, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by anoxicblaze

I was becoming psychotic on SSRI's and had horrific brain zaps . I'm now almost completely off them and 13 weeks or so into my TRT and feel much better for it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

very happy to hear that, I know when my T levels are in the upper range an dry E2 is within the preferred range, it is very hard to phase me, Im never anxious or sad

**hammerheart** · 08-13-2017, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by hxt

our youth's endocrine systems are compromised based on their lifestyle choices they don't need to be balanced by HRT, but rather by optimizing the hormones naturally: (eating clean, sleeping, lifting weights, being competitive).

I got low T at 24 (150 ng/ml) after a major life change that included dieting, lifting, weight loss and overall improvement in many areas of functioning. That was my prize for it all apparently.

**hxt** · 08-13-2017, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

I got low T at 24 (150 ng/ml) after a major life change that included dieting, lifting, weight loss and overall improvement in many areas of functioning. That was my prize for it all apparently.

did you use AAS prior to this diagnosis

**hammerheart** · 08-13-2017, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by hxt

did you use AAS prior to this diagnosis

Nope. Haven't even been taking protein powder or vitamins.

**hxt** · 08-13-2017, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

Nope. Haven't even been taking protein powder or vitamins.

what was the cause of your low T? have you ever found out? thats an incredibly young age to be diagnosed

**hammerheart** · 08-13-2017, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by hxt

what was the cause of your low T? have you ever found out? thats an incredibly young age to be diagnosed

Well I have an autoimmune condition (hashimoto thyroiditis) and that already means my system doesn't function normally. At the time it was attempted to treat this first with T4 and that's where symptoms became the worst. Had to drop it, and resume after TRT.

I also got a pituitary adenoma but it's reputed to be too small to impact T levels. No high prolactin at the time either. To add to the irony and confusion, I developed high prolactin for no reason at all after starting TRT.

**ryobi1** · 08-14-2017, 10:22 PM

I tend to agree with the OP... all I ever heard when they claimed my ex was BI polar,
its a chemical imbalance... but I agree its more like a hormonal imbalance...
I had mood swings as well, brain fog, days I didnt feel like doing anything,
no motivation, no interest in anything... as with bizzaro, I have hashimotos as well,
as well as half a thyroid.... it performed ok for a bout 10 years,
now i;m on trt and synthrois (T4).... and never felt better..
time they stopped using the major drug companies candies for depression,
as a bandaid, and looked to the core of the problem... I think the alot of the
problem is that when you are at the low end of the hormonal range, they consider
you normal.... well you are not normal...youre low, plain and simple....
should you be at the high end?... probably not.... so why not get levelled out,
I'm pretty sure most people would function alot better...

**hxt** · 08-14-2017, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by ryobi1

I think the alot of the
problem is that when you are at the low end of the hormonal range, they consider
you normal.... well you are not normal...youre low, plain and simple....
should you be at the high end?... probably not.... so why not get levelled out,
I'm pretty sure most people would function alot better...

my thoughts EXACTLY. im curious to see more research on this done.

**Kai Lover** · 08-14-2017, 11:01 PM

When you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras.

If you're feeling anxious or depressed, sign up for a meditation course. It's very unlikely that there is a medical root to your misery.

If meditation isn't for you then find a hare krishna temple, or a decent evangelical christian church. Maybe even a mosque.

Some days I go for a 2-hour walk around the lake near where I live while I chant 16 rounds of hare krishna with my beads. This morning I did vipassana meditation for about an hour and a half before breakfast.

**Quester** · 08-15-2017, 07:50 AM

As a certified Biofeedback technician, I agree with Kai that there are ways to mitigate our emotion/mood. However, that is similar to massaging a sore muscle, i.e. those mitigations exist at the exterior of the onion. But they are effective to treat the symptoms.
My anxiety and vit-d have been in opposite (wrong) directions for years. I have been given psychoactive substances that my providers couldn't even justify with a diagnosis (the meds were used for problems which I wasn't even diagnosed). Now that I am on TRT and supplementing with DHEA (Thanks new docs!) my emotional and emo-cognitive function has vastly improved.
Ocassionally, an OP will suggest an AAS cycle is ok for those suffering from poor mental health. That is usually a bad idea, and always a bad idea for the young, inexperienced, those with a legitimate diagnoses of a severe mood disorder, and/or considering a large number or particularly strong (like Tren ) AAS.
I wonder how many men and women would have better functioning if doctors devoted themselves to treating patients? I even went to the Mayo Clinic, an institution known for their holistic approach. My blood tests from that time (10 and 15 yrs ago) are consistent with my pre-TRT bloodwork.

**hammerheart** · 08-15-2017, 08:07 AM

I'm not sure what to with the unrelenting asthenia, both physical an mental, today I can't even perform one single push up. Any nutritional and hormonal approach have failed, I am hence seriously considering therapeutic doses of psychostimulants.

Cortisol was bottom of range last time I checked (june), it's worth checking again in Sept. along with DHEA.

**Quester** · 08-15-2017, 10:03 AM

Hi Biz,
I think there is a relationship btwn Vit-D and Cortisol. Not sure which one causes the other but maybe it wouldn't hurt to supplement vit-d also.

**hammerheart** · 08-15-2017, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Quester

Hi Biz,
I think there is a relationship btwn Vit-D and Cortisol. Not sure which one causes the other but maybe it wouldn't hurt to supplement vit-d also.

Levels are top range for vitamin D, deficiency is common in hashimoto thyroiditis so I took care to supplement daily from two years to now.

I believe the relationship goes the way other, ie. high cortisol leading to low vit. D. Cortisol levels are actually low.

**kelkel** · 08-15-2017, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

I also got a pituitary adenoma but it's reputed to be too small to impact T levels. No high prolactin at the time either. To add to the irony and confusion, I developed high prolactin for no reason at all after starting TRT.

Do you recall the size of your pituitary and adenoma? I have a tough time thinking it's too small to have an impact.

**hammerheart** · 08-15-2017, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Do you recall the size of your pituitary and adenoma? I have a tough time thinking it's too small to have an impact.

.5mm (.2 inches) as of 2014. Could have grow in the meantime though. IGF-1 levels also dwindled from 280 to 190 over the last two years (wasn't on caber when checked).

I'll try to get an MRI scheduled for next year via the NHS. Adenomas usually grow very slowly, so there isn't an urgent need of concern, if there is an issue with ACTH/cortisol then a tad prednisone is all it takes to fix it.

**hxt** · 09-02-2017, 04:18 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlDQLGxDQZo

**kelkel** · 09-02-2017, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

.5mm (.2 inches) as of 2014. Could have grow in the meantime though. IGF-1 levels also dwindled from 280 to 190 over the last two years (wasn't on caber when checked).

I'll try to get an MRI scheduled for next year via the NHS. Adenomas usually grow very slowly, so there isn't an urgent need of concern, if there is an issue with ACTH/cortisol then a tad prednisone is all it takes to fix it.

From memory (and it's been a long time since speaking of it) my Pit was 6mm and adenoma was 2mm. Have not had an MRI since diagnosis but I would be interested, particularly since it can change due to age and hormonal status. Prednisone would scare me, although I'm always trying to gain weight.....