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Thread: First Cycle: Anavar + Testosterone Advice

  1. #1
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    First Cycle: Anavar + Testosterone Advice

    42yo noob, in many senses, here to ask for a sanity check. Yes Iíve read many of the excellent write-ups, anecdotal stories, and a whole slew of really bad ideas. Iím also not young enough to believe that just because I can search Google, the forums, and actually read, that I ďgetĒ it. And finally, I understand how frustrating it is to deal with a clueless noob for the millionth time, and I have genuinely tried to be as informed as possible before posting this, but my apologies in advance for some of the dumber things I will likely write, as well as gratitude to whomever may actually bother dealing with this. :-)

    First, the basics.

    • 42 years old, male
    • Height: 5í11Ē (180cm)
    • Weight: 200lbs (91kg)
    • Body Fat: Approx. 19.0% according to my Withings/Nokia scale
    • Experience: No steroid experience; have been training with a personal trainer for 7 months, eating clean, etc.



    Before I get to the cycle I think I want to try (which I would appreciate any feedback on), I need to write a bit more about myself due to the fact that Iím not your run-of-the-mill case, or so I think.

    Iíve been relatively active for most of my adult life, hiking in the mountains, snowboarding, biking, what not. However, not in a ďseriousĒ athletic way, and Iíve been relatively overweight for my entire adult life (250lbs/113kg) and had simply come to accept that as ďthe way I amĒ.

    Due to a number of incidents I decided that yes I could change, and yes I would change, and it wasnít going to be a fad diet or a temporary quick loss. More of a lifestyle change to stay healthier and, to be honest, look better.

    For my diet I did all the research and was honestly blown away at how much I DIDNíT understand about proper diet. It took a little bit of time, but I got disciplined enough to do a 1,500kcal diet cutting carbs and getting proteins. Trial and error with what I liked, what would keep me full etc., but amazingly the pounds just started coming off... like magic. Shortly thereafter I was actually seeing changes in the mirror, and that was nice, but then I realized that a lot of my body was fat, and shedding it would leave me with a not very flattering mediocre build with flappy skin.

    More research and it became obvious that I didnít want to be doing cardio work in the gym, but rather weight training. It made more sense for the long term, and honestly, I hate cardio. Pumping weights is more fun for me, so that was good. The one great thing about being a middle aged guy is that Iím flat headed enough to realize that if I can pay for professional help, it would pay itself back, so I got a personal trainer, who has been tremendously valuable in helping me shortcut noob mistakes and keeping me in the right direction.

    7 months later, I love what I see. Iíve shed 50lbs, Iím seeing muscle definition I never knew I had (OK, I probably didnít have it before starting my gym membership), Iím many clothes sizes smaller, I enjoy wearing tight fitting T-shirts that show off my body, the exact opposite of what I would do when I was 250lbs.

    I havenít had an issue with motivation getting to the gym. Iím a business owner, which makes my schedule a bit crazy, but I still manage to get in 2 to 3 times a week for a decent hour of pumping weights.

    However. The weight-loss/diet thing is a bit stickier. Iíve been stuck at my current weight for nearly 8 weeks now, and itís getting to me. My body fat is stuck at 19.0% so I know it isnít lean mass gains, and I know exactly where itís coming from; my abdominal and lower back have this very irritating ring of fat that just doesnít want to go away. Thatís what you get for bad lifestyle habits for a quarter of a century.

    Normally I would say just keep pumping, eventually I will break through the plateau, itís only been 7 months, as long as my diet and exercise and resting cycles are good, so just keep natural, blah blah blah. The problem is itís really really REALLY getting to me, in a very negative way. The harder I try the more Iím thinking about food, the more itís consuming my mind, and just gnawing away at me.

    After contemplating this way, that way, no this way again and going back and forth, Iíve decided I want to try Anavar to cut through some of this. Iím not a serious body builder and I havenít been hitting the gym that long yet so I know it sounds (and probably is a bit) crazy, but itís where Iíve gotten. I understand that my BF is a bit high still to be considering steroids , but Iím hoping that the cutting properties of Anavar, combined with the fact that it doesnít aromatize (high BF I understand is an issue here) would actually be beneficial. Again, I need a sanity check.

    Iíve tested my blood and Iím happy to say that Iím very healthy. My blood pressure is on the lower end. I also understand the importance of a long ester testosterone supplement, and have a friend who is a practicing nurse that has agreed to help me learn how to poke myself. Iím not financially pressed so Iím not going to try and get ďcheapĒ by skipping on something. That said, here is my plan.

    Testosterone Enanthate 250mg/week, Wk1-10
    Anavar 30mg/day, Wk 7-12
    (AI) Arimidex 0.5mg/day, Wk 1-10
    (Liver) Silymarin (Milk Thistle)
    (PCT) Clomid 50mg/day, 4 weeks, starting 14 days after last Testosterone Enanthate

    That said, Iím still murky about a few things, and have questions.

    For example, should I be running 250mg Testosterone once a week, or twice a week at 500mg? Iím not trying to get bulk, but my understanding is that I may as well since Iíll be needing some testosterone regardless of my intention.

    Another thing is, should I be waiting this long for the Anavar (6 weeks straight Testosterone) if my main intention is cutting? Which ties into the next question, should I even be bothering with Anavar at first, or just doing a straight Testosterone cycle? (Perhaps running the 6 wks of Test first would be a good indicator as to whether or not I can/should continue on with the Anavar?)

    If I go with the Anavar, do I take a single dose daily, or split it into 10mg 3 times a day? With the Arimidex, some say 0.5mg/day, others every other day. Does it make sense to go everyday as a ďprecaution if you can afford itĒ (since my body fat is over 16%) or would there be a negative impact here?

    My PCT plan in straight Clomid 50mg, and I see contradicting opinions on HCG . (Side note: HCG is a bit hard to source where I live, so if itís a ďnice if you can have it, but not a serious issueĒ then skipping it may be an option, but if it makes a worldís difference, Iíll find a source.) Should I add Nolvadex or is Clomid alone sufficient?

    Am I ape shit crazy to even be considering a cycle? And finally, should I remain on the 1,500kcal diet or should I bring it up closer to 2,000kcal around TDEE?

    ďStay naturalĒ is a legitimate option if the cycle makes no sense, although I admit Iím going to need to find some serious motivation in other forms if thatís the case. (Self-esteem is starting to take a serious hit here; I know it sounds stupid but itís kind of a big deal for me.)

    Any input appreciated!

  2. #2
    jjsevens's Avatar
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    Sorry to break it to you but steroids isn't a magic weight loss drug, depending on your weight goals you still have to manage your diet accordingly, so that being said I doubt a cycle is going to help with what you're trying to achieve.

    Have you had your blood work done to check your hormones? At 42 you could be lacking in something that's causing you to stall. I'm 41 and have thyroid issues(hypothyroidism) which can cause weight gain and slow weight loss if not treated, but even that aside trying to achieve low bf% is tough as it is at our age, and why I'm pointing to hormones.

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    Steroids are not for you...
    you lift 2-3 times a week for an hour.
    You are not a hardcore gym rat yet.
    You have many years of natural gains in your re-composition quest before you should even think about touching steroids.
    songdog and Gallowmere like this.

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    Yes, I had blood work done, and the numbers are all very good except for my uric acid levels that are just slightly high. Hormone levels are all good, my doctor was impressed. (And so was I, a lot of the numbers are looking amazing compared to pre-diet, and I honestly didn't expect things to look this good at this age. I probably have genetics to thank.) That said, I hear you on the age and BF issue. I really, really should have started this a long time ago when I was younger. I'm paying the price. But better than never I guess.

    I understand that the steroids won't be a magic bullet; stepping back a bit, I think one of the main reasons I am considering the steroid option is to build up more motivation to keep going at the diet and pumping more frequently. I know pretty much everyone on these boards has had stronger willpower for a hell of a lot longer than I ever have had, but ultimately it boils down to motivation. Which, is probably not a great idea I guess.

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    Thanks The Deadlifting Dog.
    Makes sense, and I think I already knew the answer there. I'm actually quite impressed that I've been able to change my build so fast, and want to get into the gym more frequently, so that's probably where I should be aiming for first. Changing a hardcore bad diet was first step, getting to the gym was next, need to find some serious ass motivation to get over this plateau, so I'm gonna need to work on my schedule and cut something out so I can actually get in more frequently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Igusa0420 View Post
    Yes, I had blood work done, and the numbers are all very good

    Do you recall your total and free test levels and ranges were? Or was this your doctors opinion?
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Igusa0420 View Post
    (AI) Arimidex 0.5mg/day, Wk 1-10
    That's 4 times the typical bodybuilding dose. Aren't you worried you'll wipe out your estrogen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Igusa0420 View Post
    Yes, I had blood work done, and the numbers are all very good except for my uric acid levels that are just slightly high. Hormone levels are all good, my doctor was impressed. (And so was I, a lot of the numbers are looking amazing compared to pre-diet, and I honestly didn't expect things to look this good at this age. I probably have genetics to thank.) That said, I hear you on the age and BF issue. I really, really should have started this a long time ago when I was younger. I'm paying the price. But better than never I guess.

    I understand that the steroids won't be a magic bullet; stepping back a bit, I think one of the main reasons I am considering the steroid option is to build up more motivation to keep going at the diet and pumping more frequently. I know pretty much everyone on these boards has had stronger willpower for a hell of a lot longer than I ever have had, but ultimately it boils down to motivation. Which, is probably not a great idea I guess.
    If your Total Test and Free Test numbers are in the upper 90 percentile, then you're golden and you don't need AAS. "Normal" range of Test is HUGE. You want your T3/T4/TSH numbers to be high also. Those, along with E2 & IGF-1, will probably be the biggest contributing factors to losing fat and building muscle. If your numbers are truly "very good" and your diet's on track, you should think about an Anavar only cycle. Anavar is the only oral I would run without Test. It is a very weak steroid so the sides won't be severe and it will help with the weight loss and firming of the muscles.

    You can't take Anavar, exercise 2 times per week, and expect to get ripped. You need to workout 3, 4, 5 times per week and add 20 minutes of cardio, after workout, 3 times per week. You need to take at least 60mg/ed to get any results. Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Do you recall your total and free test levels and ranges were? Or was this your doctors opinion?
    My doctors indication that it was within "normal" levels. However, I have the numbers once I get home, I'll check them out. I've decided not to use gear, but I'm still interested in the bodybuilding opinion on the numbers. Will get back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai Lover View Post
    That's 4 times the typical bodybuilding dose. Aren't you worried you'll wipe out your estrogen?
    Exactly what I wanted to hear. So how do you suggest working with this? 1/4 tablet (0.25mg) every other day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    If your Total Test and Free Test numbers are in the upper 90 percentile, then you're golden and you don't need AAS. "Normal" range of Test is HUGE. You want your T3/T4/TSH numbers to be high also. Those, along with E2 & IGF-1, will probably be the biggest contributing factors to losing fat and building muscle. If your numbers are truly "very good" and your diet's on track, you should think about an Anavar only cycle. Anavar is the only oral I would run without Test. It is a very weak steroid so the sides won't be severe and it will help with the weight loss and firming of the muscles.

    You can't take Anavar, exercise 2 times per week, and expect to get ripped. You need to workout 3, 4, 5 times per week and add 20 minutes of cardio, after workout, 3 times per week. You need to take at least 60mg/ed to get any results. Good luck.
    Thanks. Right now I have my full cycle of meds and that's basically my morale booster. Stare at the cycle, then just start pumping. lol It's kind of my mental insurance at this point, just knowing that I have something to fall back on (I know, that's not what it's for, but figuratively speaking) in order to keep me going. Per everyone's advice I talked to my trainer and have changed around my training and have a set of weights at home now and have gotten to training on average 3.5 days a week. That, and I bike to work every other day which is about 40 minutes round trip, although if I need to get 20 minutes AFTER training, I'll need to hit the aero bike too.

    I'm curious on the oral only cycle. Everything I've read pretty much says oral-only is a big no-no for guys. How long would you run a 60mg/ed cycle on oral only? I'm assuming this would be a straight oral only cycle with a Clomid PCT? Again, I'm not going to try this immediately and especially without reconfirming my test numbers, but since I was under the impression that oral-only just wasn't going to happen, you have my curiosity.

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    Just a quick update, I've decided not to use this cycle, at least not yet, and to continue working at it per everyone's advice. Looking over my body photos from the last 8 weeks I think it is apparent that I'm actually gaining muscle mass while not losing weight, so maybe I just need to stop worrying so much about the damn weight and just keep pumping, and not obsess too much over the BF readings my scale is returning. I've been further tuning my diet, keeping total calories down but increasing protein, keeping fat between 15-20%, and thinning out my carbs to very small portions over 4 times a day, sticking to brown rice etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Igusa0420 View Post
    Just a quick update, I've decided not to use this cycle, at least not yet, and to continue working at it per everyone's advice. Looking over my body photos from the last 8 weeks I think it is apparent that I'm actually gaining muscle mass while not losing weight, so maybe I just need to stop worrying so much about the damn weight and just keep pumping, and not obsess too much over the BF readings my scale is returning. I've been further tuning my diet, keeping total calories down but increasing protein, keeping fat between 15-20%, and thinning out my carbs to very small portions over 4 times a day, sticking to brown rice etc.
    You sound like me. This is part of the reason I've not even bothered ordering a cycle yet. It gives me that time to realize "man, I'm still doing very well without gear, so there's no sense in playing that trump card yet".

    I'm a former fat guy as well (265 peak, 150 trough, 163 current), so the progression of shapeshifting alone has been astounding. However, at 32 I do realize that the time will be coming sooner than later.

    Here's to riding what we've got until actually needing to reach back for a deeper gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    I'm a former fat guy as well (265 peak, 150 trough, 163 current), so the progression of shapeshifting alone has been astounding. However, at 32 I do realize that the time will be coming sooner than later.
    Wow, that's impressive. At 42yo I'm just kicking myself for not doing this 20 years earlier. Hind sight, as usual. At 32, you've got the world ahead of you. (And to someone that's 52, I guess I do too. lol)

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    First Cycle: Anavar + Testosterone Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Igusa0420 View Post
    Wow, that's impressive. At 42yo I'm just kicking myself for not doing this 20 years earlier. Hind sight, as usual. At 32, you've got the world ahead of you. (And to someone that's 52, I guess I do too. lol)
    I wouldn't say that I've achieved anything too impressive, and the hard part is still ahead. Really, commitment to a diet is the easy part for me. The real test is going to be those months of slamming my face into deads and squats over and over, for marginal gains.

    I'm more of a relative strength guy than a size guy, so seeing those lifts go up without major increases to bodyweight is what sets me on fire. The looking better part is just a fringe benefit.

    I definitely feel you on the hindsight though. Just started lifting a year ago after losing all of that weight. A: I should have been lifting the whole time, and B: my biggest regret is wasting the best potential gains of my life, by spending my teens and twenties just being wasted on drugs and getting fat as hell.

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    I'm back!

    I'm back! So it has been some time. First, some current stats and updates.

    • 43 years old, male
    • Height: 5í11Ē (180cm)
    • Weight: 185lbs (84kg)
    • Body Fat: Approx. 16.0% according to my Withings/Nokia scale
    • Experience: Still no AAS experience; training religiously 5 days a week (5-day split), clean eating.



    Thanks to everyone here keeping me on the straight and narrow, I dropped to 80kg 14.5% BF at one point, after which I decided to clean bulk due to feeling too skinny. (It's all in the eye of the beholder, I know, but there was a bit too much rib cage showing and my arms felt too skinny.) 6 months in at a caloric surplus and training like it's going out of style, I've seen gains, I'm happy, and it seems like I can still gain, but it is slow for sure. Never thought I'd become a gym rat either, but here I am.

    Now with the bulking has come the unwanted fat, and I really want to drop this and get to single digit %. The vast majority of the fat is in my belly and visceral. My arms and lower legs are somewhat vascular and I definitely don't look "fat" in any way. Now the catch is that at 43yo, and only lifting for a couple years, trying to lose the fat is almost guaranteed to decrease my hard earned gains too, even if I continue to train, and it scares me shitless.

    So I'm back to considering my first cycle again. At this point TRT isn't too far off the horizon, but I feel I can still expect some gains (although slow) without. So with my goal of simply trying to retain the lean mass while cutting, would Anavar 40mg ED for 6 weeks oral-only make sense? Or would you still suggest stacking with test-e, perhaps 100mg/wk just to compensate for shut off? Or... if TRT isn't too far away anyways and gains are slow, would you suggest more?

    Any input and thoughts welcome!

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