First Cycle | Clenbuterol, Winstrol, Ancillaries & PCT

**Wolfanized** · 09-03-2017, 04:09 AM

Hey all,

Long time lurker, First time poster, First time going on a cycle.

This WILL be my first cycle ever. I have done a fair bit of research but as anyone, Am still curious and would like some more answers and/or feedback on my current plan of attack for an upcoming cycle.. More or less posting to make sure i have not missed anything.

I HAVE read the following:

- Clenbuterol Handbook
- First Cycle Guide
- First Cycle Planning
- PCT Guides
- AAS and Substance Guides
- Risks of Oral Cycles
- Oral Cycle Guides
- These forums and others religiously and consistently

STATS
-------

Height: 182cm
Weight: 80kg
BodyFat: Unsure since last scan, Roughly 12-13%
Age: 28
Workout History: 12 months, 6 days a week (Chest/Abs, Shoulders/Cardio, Legs/Abs, Back/Cardio, Arms/Cardio, HIIT Circuit/Deadlift/Overhead)
Diet History: Calorie Intake controlled, Slight Caloric Defecit, Meal Planner and Timed Meals.
Previous Use: None, First Cycle.

GOAL:
-------

Increase fat burning potential (Reach 10%), Keep lean muscle mass and tone/define body while gaining some amount of strength and hopefully carry through a small amount post cycle. Not expecting a miracle transformation, Have realistic goals and looking more to use this cycle as a booster to my current performance and a kick start to breaking through plateaus.

PROPOSED STACK, CYCLE & PCT:
-------

This is indeed an ORAL ONLY cycle and i am aware of the downsides when compared to injecting as well as the dangers and risks associated, Specifically those relating to potential liver damage and I AM okay with taking these chances and have prepared accordingly and will be using all measures available to minimise adverse reactions.

I am also aware that many users here prefer and recommend all cycles contain a Test base, However being Oral Only and following research and others experiences in such cycles i have forgone this and will focus on PCT to address the shut downs experienced. Please refrain from suggesting or asking me to add Test to this stack.

PRE CYCLE PERIOD: 4 WEEKS (Liv-52, Fish Oil, Taurine)
Taurine: 5g ED
Liv-52: 1x Daily
Fish Oil: 1x Daily
MultiVitamin: 1x Daily (Currently take this anyway)

*Continues throughout entire cycle

CYCLE PERIOD 6 WEEKS: (Clenbuterol, Winstrol)

Day 1: Clenbuterol 20mcg, Winstrol 20mg
Day 2: Clenbuterol 40mcg, Winstrol 40mg
Day 3: Clenbuterol 60mcg, Winstrol 60mg
Day 4: Clenbuterol 80mcg
Day 5: Clenbuterol 80mcg,
Day 6-12: Clenbuterol 100mcg
Day 13: Clenbuterol 80mcg
Day 14: Clenbuterol 60mcg
Day 15- 28: Winstrol 60mg
Day 29: Clenbuterol 20mcg
Day 30: Clenbuterol 40mcg
Day 31: Clenbuterol 60mcg
Day 32: Clenbuterol 80mcg
Day 33: Clenbuterol 80mcg
Day 34: Clenbuterol 100mcg
Day 35-41: Clenbuterol 100mcg
Day 42: Clenbuterol 80mcg
Day 43: Clenbuterol 60mcg
END

* Winstrol 60mg ED post Day 3

PCT 3 Weeks: (Nolvadex)
Day 1: 100mg
Day 2-11: 60mg
Day 12-21: 40mg

Follow Up, Secondary Query:

I was also wondering if anyone had experience with the following companies and their products, Particularly Crazy-Bulks as they state Winsol is an ALTERNATIVE to Winstrol and not the real deal Should i be weary of products like these attempting to seem like you are purchasing the true product?

CrazyBulk - Clenbuterol 'CLENBUTROL'
CrazyBulk - Winstrol 'WINSOL'
Anabolics - Clenbuterol 'CLEN'

Thanks all

Suggestions, Feedback and Changes welcome and definitely sought after!

**Octaneforce** · 09-03-2017, 10:05 AM

To be honest i think your wasting your time. At 6 foot and 175lbs your already on the skinny side. This "cycle" will probably make you more catabolic than anything. Clen is poison dude its not for a beginner to shed some fat. And winny is pretty brutal too. I dont think youll get anywhere with this. Not trying to be mean. Youve only been lifting for a year you have a long way to go naturally and when your ready you should do a real test cycle.
Also anything that says "alternative" is probably bunk

**guitarzan** · 09-03-2017, 10:13 AM

That's a terrible cycle. No test?

**szabla** · 09-03-2017, 10:25 AM

Wow, you've "religiously" read all this stuff you mentioned and all you managed to come up with for you first cycle is winstrol +clen ?

**charger69** · 09-03-2017, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by szabla

Wow, you've "religiously" read all this stuff you mentioned and all you managed to come up with for you first cycle is winstrol+clen?

I guess you did not understand what you read. I agree with all of the comments. Do NOT cycle without test. BTW clen is not AAS.
Read the first cycle again and understand it.
I also agree that you need a diet to gain quality weight.

**ironbeck** · 09-03-2017, 02:09 PM

Test is the base for any cycle silly rabbit.

**Wolfanized** · 09-03-2017, 04:07 PM

Hi all,

Thankyou for the response and input. I definitely understand i am a newbie at this, will make mistakes and there is a lot to take in and truly understand.

I understand exactly how poison Clenbuterol and Winstrol can both be, Hence taking as many precautions as possible and tapering in my dosage to feel them out.

I have decided on Clen +Winstrol without Test as there have been countless success stories on these forums and others, Primarily i have searched for people with similar weight and stats to myself. I have indeed read through the First Cycle Guide and others and cannot find where it states Test is mandatory and feel this has become more of a 'Peoples Choice', I do understand ALL Cycles would be more efficient and productive with a Test base but have read those without Test can and have had their own successes.

I'm not looking to put on large mass, quite happy with my current state but looking to cut a little more and gain some strength. My diet is on point and well executed, I could easily make adjustments to gain mass if were my goal and again im not looking for a miracle or a dramatic change but a boost and kick start to my future gains (and losses)

If anyone has an alternative cycle i am more than happy to listen in and consider, However PLEASE NOTE i do not wish to inject, (Last i checked there was no Oral Test) Yes i understand i will get many of you telling me 'Perhaps this isnt for me', or 'Give up now', but surely there is some oral alternative that could work for my goals and would greatly appreciate those willing to work with me to find a happy medium.

Thanks

**szabla** · 09-03-2017, 04:31 PM

If you can't or don't want to inject then seriously, steroids aren't for you. Some oral compounds can be run alone with some success but in a long run you need to inject.

**szabla** · 09-03-2017, 04:33 PM

And if your goal is to cut a little and gain a little strength and you've only been working out for a year then you can easily achieve those goals naturally. So why bother with steroids especially since you lack the balls to do it the proper way.

**geezuschrist** · 09-03-2017, 04:47 PM

Awful first cycle. Good way to fuck up your natural test without running test as a base. Only 12 weeks lifting? You need to put on size first and really figure out how to eat before running a cycle. Good luck, and if you can't inject then you're wasting your time with this stuff.

**Octaneforce** · 09-03-2017, 06:00 PM

Put it this way. Every cycle oral or injected has the risk of permanently shutting down your test production. So sure you could do an oral only cycle, but you could end up doing damage to your hpta system and have to inject for life anyway. Its a longshot but you have to be able to handle these possibilities if you want to be in this game

**Wolfanized** · 09-03-2017, 11:02 PM

Fair enough,

So my question still remains, Is there no Oral Only cycle i can go on which would proruce the results i am after? I am committed to this and open to options, Regardless of the risks and consequences which i am ready to deal and potentially live with. (EVEN IF YOU DO NOT RECOMMEND IT PERSONALLY, ANYTHING THAT MAY PRODUCE RESULTS IS ACCEPTED. JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING ISNT THE BEST DOESNT MEAN IT STILL CANNOT WORK)

If absolutely not what would a recommended cycle be inclusive of injecting? Something simple and manageable.

Thanks

**Wolfanized** · 09-03-2017, 11:04 PM

Side note - You all mention being a 'good way to fuck up natural test' but is this not entirely the idea of a PCT? To restore and repair the shut downs created by such cycles and substances.
Forgive me if this is incorrect but EVERYTHING i have read suggests this is the case..

**Wolfanized** · 09-03-2017, 11:15 PM

DISREGARD - A friendly user on this post has messaged, recommended and forwarded me to Austinites Fat Loss Protocol and explained its effects and effectiveness to me along side my current diet.

Looking like i will be able to obtain the results i am hoping for without delving into the use of substances etc.. Will check back in a month or two.

My only concern now is how to break my strength plateaus but will figure something out along side my current training.

Opinions and Input is still appreciated!

**Dj Screw** · 09-04-2017, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Wolfanized

DISREGARD - A friendly user on this post has messaged, recommended and forwarded me to Austinites Fat Loss Protocol and explained its effects and effectiveness to me along side my current diet.

Looking like i will be able to obtain the results i am hoping for without delving into the use of substances etc.. Will check back in a month or two.

My only concern now is how to break my strength plateaus but will figure something out along side my current training.

Opinions and Input is still appreciated!

Breaking strength plateaus while on a cut/losing weight is going to be really difficult, in fact you should expect to lose a small amount of strength. Having said that, when you get back into a caloric surplus for a week or 2 and start to bulk again your strength should slowly but surely start to rise as long as your diet/training is on point. Just be patient and trust the process, one of the best things I've learned from this forum is "It's a marathon, not a sprint"

Good luck

Also, great decision on deciding against Clen /Winstrol cycle without a test base. It's just flat out not worth it. It is rare to see people actually take advice on this site lol

**Couchlock** · 09-04-2017, 05:06 AM

Weeks of winstrol that's just enough to shut you down and do nothing else for you but make you struggle with losing weight after that because once you shut your test down, you now have estrogen and cortisol as your dominant hormones and they'll be like that for the next two to three months and you'll pack on a little bit more fat than you would otherwise

Reconsider using steroids at all, consider tightening up your diet and training regimen

**charger69** · 09-04-2017, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Wolfanized

Side note - You all mention being a 'good way to fuck up natural test' but is this not entirely the idea of a PCT? To restore and repair the shut downs created by such cycles and substances.
Forgive me if this is incorrect but EVERYTHING i have read suggests this is the case..

When you take AAS you shut down your natural system. You are correct about the PCT, but you have deprived your body of test for a long period of time. It may not get restored.

**guitarzan** · 09-04-2017, 01:31 PM

If you do run clen for six weeks, you need to take keto or Benadryl

**Kenny357** · 09-05-2017, 11:01 AM

Check out the SARMS triple stack. It might be a good oral only attack to reach your goals.

**kelkel** · 09-05-2017, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Wolfanized

DISREGARD - A friendly user on this post has messaged, recommended and forwarded me to Austinites Fat Loss Protocol and explained its effects and effectiveness to me along side my current diet.

Looking like i will be able to obtain the results i am hoping for without delving into the use of substances etc.. Will check back in a month or two.

My only concern now is how to break my strength plateaus but will figure something out along side my current training.

Opinions and Input is still appreciated!

Seriously a great move.

**ryobi1** · 09-05-2017, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Wolfanized

DISREGARD - A friendly user on this post has messaged, recommended and forwarded me to Austinites Fat Loss Protocol and explained its effects and effectiveness to me along side my current diet.

Looking like i will be able to obtain the results i am hoping for without delving into the use of substances etc.. Will check back in a month or two.

My only concern now is how to break my strength plateaus but will figure something out along side my current training.

Opinions and Input is still appreciated!

good choice, havent used either substance, but havent read anything good about them either.
do more research, not gonna spoon feed you, but there are better oral only cycles out there,
which with the right diet will produce more strength and lean mass. do more research.
but are hard on the liver as well as HPTA... you did right by posting here, at least you found this site
before it was to late.
good luck with the fat loss protocol, once you succeed, eat right and hit the gym hard