Estrogen levels on 500mg test e only first cycle..

**Skidoomutt** · 10-27-2017, 08:13 PM

On week 2 of my test e only cycle..im following the sticky in this forum for first cycles..just curious about e levels..i have noticed a little more bloat in my stomach area mainly, and not really feeling stellar all around..seem tired and generally flat..i am taking 20 mg aromasin ed, and hcg 250 mg e 3.5 days test e 250 mg e 3.5 days..i know from reading that low e is worse than high, and the symptoms are fairly close to having high e. Is 20 mg aromasin ed to much, or maybe not enough..blood work the only way to really tell??.i did a cycle about 15 yrs ago ifof test c and tren and did no on cycle estrogen support with no issues, should i drop the aromasin to eod or cut my dose to 10mg ed. The pills i have are 20mg...thanks for the advice..

**kelkel** · 10-27-2017, 09:29 PM

Proper stane dose could be anywhere from 12.5 to 25 per day. Also remember you're just starting this cycle so your hormones are adjusting, meaning it's not always pleasant. And yes, BW is really the only way to tell.

Are you running 500 mg x 2 per week or 250 x 2 per week?

**Skidoomutt** · 10-27-2017, 09:39 PM

250mg twice a week

**TRA** · 10-28-2017, 12:09 AM

Agree with kel, listen to him to iron it out and also get some labs. I can pretty much tell where my e2 levels are by how I feel but that's after years of dealing with low (TRT doc crushed my e2 with letrozole ) then high levels. But I still use labs to confirm and guide my adex therapy.
I also prefer to run just a tad high on e2, nothing crazy, just above high normal. I feel better there than anywhere.

**Slacker78** · 10-28-2017, 02:30 PM

1) Ensure your Aromasin is a pharmacy grade.

2) HCG stimulate tests to product estradiol by themselves WITHOUT involving aromatase enzyme: an AI does nothing cause it acts blocking the aromatase enzyme. 500UI E3D is a bit high. Keep in mind that you're already stimulating the conversion in E2 by the testosterone dosage, and HCG add additional layer of E2 production bypassing aromatase enzyme. Reduce HCG dosage to 250UI E3D, max 300UI and not more.

3) You're using a long ester as Testosterone Enanthate . I will release the hormone slowly in a blood stream. So, at beginning the dosage could be too much but as Kelkel told, in long course the same dosage could be effective. Try to reduce to 12.5mg ED and monitor your feelings.

4) Keep and eye on body fat %. Fat is one of the master carrier of aromatase. More fat you have, higher will be your E2 conversion.

5) BLOOD WORK. And look where you're. If during cycle you see that Aromasin is not effective to control E2 ( and you will discover it doing several BW during your cycle ), think to Arimidex that is more powerful. Personally with Aromasin happened to me to do not be able to control well E2 in past. I definitely switched to Arimidex and i will stay on it forever because it's the better compromise.

Good luck

**Skidoomutt** · 10-29-2017, 11:51 AM

I am doing 250iu hcg every 3.5 days 500 iu a week total sorry for the confusion on the dosage in my initial post. I feel my body fat at this point is a little higher than i would like but not to high im guessing 17% im going to bring it down hoping to be under 15 or less...im going to get labs done on monday and see where everything sits..shitty thing is have to see a doc for a lab order to be put in..thanks for the replys guys..i am not sure on the aromasin it came from uncle Z, not sure about quality with my experience..

**kelkel** · 10-29-2017, 06:01 PM

You're not in a state where discounted labs or private md labs allow you to obtain it on your own?

**VII** · 10-29-2017, 07:27 PM

I'm kinda new to this, so don't take me too seriously. But after struggling for 8(well 16 really) weeks to find the E2 sweet spot I find mine to be right when I get the pimples all over my arms. That's when I have the most power in the gym, but don't have the rest of the high E2 symptoms. I call it Pimple Power.....

If I start getting the bad high-E2 symptoms I pop 1mg adex to take it down quickly and then maintain it with about .25mg per day. If the pimples dry out and I dont get new pimples I skip the dose for a day or two....

Edit: And yeah, my arms look like hell now.. haha.. I don't know if aiming for arm pimples is a good idea in the long run..

Edit 2: Also, I know I'm having way too much E2 when I get emotional. Like, I'm angry-sad. Like if a gf have broken up with you haha, you know the feeling. Then I know I have to bring it down quickly. If I get too low I'm very alphaish, the opposite to the above. But I find it boring to be that emotionaly dull, and I'm not as strong in the gym.

**stacktt** · 10-29-2017, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by VII

I'm kinda new to this, so don't take me too seriously. But after struggling for 8(well 16 really) weeks to find the E2 sweet spot I find mine to be right when I get the pimples all over my arms. That's when I have the most power in the gym, but don't have the rest of the high E2 symptoms. I call it Pimple Power.....

If I start getting the bad high-E2 symptoms I pop 1mg adex to take it down quickly and then maintain it with about .25mg per day. If the pimples dry out and I dont get new pimples I skip the dose for a day or two....

Edit: And yeah, my arms look like hell now.. haha.. I don't know if aiming for arm pimples is a good idea in the long run..

Edit 2: Also, I know I'm having way too much E2 when I get emotional. Like, I'm angry-sad. Like if a gf have broken up with you haha, you know the feeling. Then I know I have to bring it down quickly. If I get too low I'm very alphaish, the opposite to the above. But I find it boring to be that emotionaly dull, and I'm not as strong in the gym.

I'm brand new too. Haven't taken an Ai and the angry sad stuff has been happening to me to this past week. I think it's time to take my aromasin .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

**Skidoomutt** · 10-29-2017, 08:52 PM

All blood draws and labs have to be accompanied by a doctors orders..its b.s and a lot more exspensive, not to mention a p.i.t.a..have set up an appointment and make up some story for why your wanting the labs in the first place. Wasnt their a nationwide agency that did discounted labs?

**Skidoomutt** · 10-29-2017, 10:03 PM

What are all the specific items i need to make sure get checked...i work away 2 weeks a month and am not going to get into a discount place before i leave so unfortunately ill be paying a hospital to do them, and i want to make sure all the important ones are covered..thanks

**Skidoomutt** · 10-30-2017, 07:58 PM

Well went in for my labs today, used the list in one of the stickys on this forum, and holly ##it they were almost 1000$ through my hospital, so i made an appoinmtent for labcorps tomorrow morning..260$ for all of them..our medical industry is so screwed!!

**kelkel** · 10-31-2017, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Skidoomutt

Well went in for my labs today, used the list in one of the stickys on this forum, and holly ##it they were almost 1000$ through my hospital, so i made an appoinmtent for labcorps tomorrow morning..260$ for all of them..our medical industry is so screwed!!

Amazing isn't it? Through a doctor Labcor will charge over $200 for a Sensitive E2 Assay. Through discounted labs or similar they charge around $40 I believe and still make a profit.

**Skidoomutt** · 11-06-2017, 06:36 PM

Got my labs back..

Total test 1232.1
Free test 32.2
Estradiol sensative 6.3
Sex hormone binding serum 33.6
FSH .3
LH <.2
Everything else was lisred in the normal range, so im guessing my earlier feelings were from low estrogens, I have since cut my aromasin to 10mg ed, seems to be better. What do you guys think? Why are my FSH and LH so low?

**hammerheart** · 11-06-2017, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Skidoomutt

Got my labs back..

Total test 1232.1
Free test 32.2
Estradiol sensative 6.3
Sex hormone binding serum 33.6
FSH .3
LH <.2
Everything else was lisred in the normal range, so im guessing my earlier feelings were from low estrogens, I have since cut my aromasin to 10mg ed, seems to be better. What do you guys think? Why are my FSH and LH so low?

I'd say the Test your using is at least 50% underdosed, E2 is still bottom rock.... LH&FSH are suppressed by the exogenous Test, it's normal.

**petemitchell30** · 11-06-2017, 07:59 PM

Yah man, everyone is different, but your test levels should be probably close to double that on 500mg a week. Also again, like the fellas are telling you everyone is different.....but just for a reference, when I was taking 1gram of test a week, 18.25 aromasin ED had my e2 levels at 19 after 6 weeks.

**Skidoomutt** · 11-06-2017, 08:24 PM

Test should be double ...Even only after 3 weeks?

**petemitchell30** · 11-06-2017, 08:32 PM

hmm....if you've been doing 250 2X a week for only 3 weeks, maybe not double...but it only takes 4 weeks for the maximum amount to hit your blood stream (if my math is correct). Like the fellas are telling you, everyone is different, but just for reference.....I know 3 guys who's Dr. put them on 200mg test cyp per week and after 6 weeks had to decrease the dosage because they were outside the normal range (which is 1100 or 1200 i think).

**hammerheart** · 11-06-2017, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Skidoomutt

Test should be double ...Even only after 3 weeks?

Yeah it should be peaking. It's not that slow of an ester.

**Skidoomutt** · 11-06-2017, 09:15 PM

Hu...well first time iv ordered from Unc Z...so i wouldn't have any past experience on their quality...but sounds like it might not be the best..anyone else have any dealings with them?

**petemitchell30** · 11-06-2017, 11:22 PM

Oh Lord.....I do. I got bloods done when I didn't feel anything, and it was VERY underdosed. As in my test 300 was probably closer to test 100.

**Skidoomutt** · 11-07-2017, 09:55 AM

So what should i be doing... up my dose, my gear is 300 a c, im only taking a little less than a "c" a pin to achieve around the 500mg a week..if its underdosed their is no way of knowing what i have to take to get 500 a week..guess ill have to be looking for another source next time around...

**GearHeaded** · 11-11-2017, 02:19 PM

a common theme on most the forums is everyone over doing it with the AI's .. AI over use generally causes more problems then it prevents .
unless your extremely sensitive to estrogen and gyno prone . . otherwise letting that estrogen elevate at a good ratio along with elevated test can be beneficial (especially if your in a growing phase)

**Skidoomutt** · 11-12-2017, 12:24 AM

I have since cut my aromasine to 10 mg ed..going to try that for a bit and see how things go..i did an oral cycle a couple times and never did any AI's through them and didnt have any gyno issues, so i might not be prone to estrogen issues....thanks for the replies guys..

**Skidoomutt** · 12-29-2017, 03:31 PM

Got my labs done at 9 weeks..see what you guys think...
my total test 1558.6 free is 42.0
My Rbc is up since last labs and shows high at 5.83
hemoglobin shows high at 17.9
Hemocrate is barely under at 49.9
My cholesterol has also taken a negative swing hdl 34 and ldl 112..
I have been taking easy on my AI aromasin and my e level is high at 56.5 but no gyno symptoms
AST is also high,
Everything else is normal range.
I was expecting my test level to be higher at this point...do i need to go give blood to lower them?. I was actually looking to extend my cycle another 4 weeks to 16 and use another brand of test e..from what i have read my levels should be over 2000..also looking at adding some 50mg anvar e.d the last 6 weeks..advice? Thanks guys..

**David LoPan** · 12-29-2017, 03:38 PM

Add some fiber (Psyllium Husks), slo-niacin and red yeast and it will help with the Cholesterol. I believe that KelKel said to get the Yeast from an out of US supplier due to some FDA BS.

How is your sex drive with e levels at 56.5?

**Skidoomutt** · 12-29-2017, 04:17 PM

Been good sex drive, but erection isnt the best some times, and honestly i dont get good satisfaction out of it most times..not normal for sure..i was concerned about using my ai after what happened initially, so i quit taking it for the most part..im going to hit 20mg ed for a week and see how i feel..maybe stay on 10mg from then on

**kelkel** · 12-30-2017, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Skidoomutt

Got my labs done at 9 weeks..see what you guys think...
my total test 1558.6 free is 42.0
My Rbc is up since last labs and shows high at 5.83
hemoglobin shows high at 17.9
Hemocrate is barely under at 49.9
My cholesterol has also taken a negative swing hdl 34 and ldl 112..
I have been taking easy on my AI aromasin and my e level is high at 56.5 but no gyno symptoms
AST is also high,
Everything else is normal range.
I was expecting my test level to be higher at this point...do i need to go give blood to lower them?. I was actually looking to extend my cycle another 4 weeks to 16 and use another brand of test e..from what i have read my levels should be over 2000..also looking at adding some 50mg anvar e.d the last 6 weeks..advice? Thanks guys..

Your gear is under-dosed. Arguably you should be around a 3K TT level.
You can give blood if you like to lower hematocrit but it's not urgent.
It's normal for chol to take a hit. It'll bounce back when off cycle.
Not sure the range on your estrogen test but if only a little high and no symptoms then leave it be.
Normal for AST and ALT to be elevated. Working out (muscular trauma) does this.
I would not extend your cycle unless you know the new gear is dosed properly.
Nothing wrong with Var. But you should be taking liver support throughout the cycle. NAC, UDCA, TUDCA, etc.

**Skidoomutt** · 12-30-2017, 10:51 AM

I am taking liv52, macca, fish oil, multi vitamins, chlorophyll, and milk thistle currently. I contacted Z about the test level issue last test and in his defense he did wire me 200$ to cover my last labs because he was confident that his gear was gtg. I sent him these results and have not gotten a reply as of yet. I was suspicious of my levels not being as high as they should be, wasnt feeling like i thought i would. Dont get me wrong im seeing a body change and decent gains, but i think it should have been a little more pronounced. Honestly how do you know any BM gear is what it says it is???..only through reputation and feedback i guess..hard to find a source that doesnt have both good and bad..thanks for the replies fellas, i know it probly gets old looking at all the rookie questions and concerns, but just know, im sure all the new guys appreciate your feedback..thanks for the help so far.. estrogen test range was 8-35 so mine is well out of normal range...