Second Cycle Confusion

[batesy]

Hey all,

39yo, 92kg, 15% bf.

First cycle: Recomp, 10 weeks Test E 250mg twice a week. PCT Nolva + Clomid
No sides except some minor body acne.

Just finishing running SARM's LGD and S4 and want to plan my second anabolic cycle.

First question. I know time between gear cycles is time on plus pct equals time off but do I have to have as much time off after SARM's as I would after gear?

For the second cycle I'll be looking at doing a lean bulk for 8 - 10 weeks.
I was considering adding DBol and/or Deca .
I've read that Dbol is a great kick starter then other guys say it's just in your head and gains are just water weight and you lose them anyway.
Deca I've read is a different type of steroid so compliments Test great and is a common bulk and second cycle addition but then read it is very hard to come back to natural test production afterwards.
I'm not interested in ever having kids again but not real interested in having to pin for the rest of my life either. I understand there are risks and it's a gamble but just want to improve my odds of not having life long issues.

I'm in Australia and not sure blood work is a option here without results going on file.

Please be kind and helpful, I've researched but so much conflicting info. Thanks

[playtowin123]

How did the recomp go man?

[playtowin123]

PS - look into Tbol for a kick instead of D-bol. Seems a great alternative to avoid some of Dbols sides.

[batesy]

Recomp went good but could of been better with more effort and a stricter diet. Seeing the results has motivated me to do better though this time.
I had InBody scans done and went from 16% to 10% bodyfat. Gained about 4kg of muscle.

[capkid]

If I can add in my two cents...

I tend to be pretty conservative when it comes to cycling. I would suggest that you use the typical wait period to start your cycle, even if you only did use SARMS last time.

As someone else said, tbol is a good alternative to dbol . Dbol will give you greater gains, but it aromatizes and causes bloat, so you'll need to counter that with some ai. Personally, I prefer tbol. It's just easier to use. And the gains you'll get from deca and test will already be good enough already.

I would also run it like this:
Weeks 1-4: Dbol/Tbol 30mg/ED
Weeks 1-10: Deca 400mg/wk
Weeks 1-12: Test 500mg/wk

Don't forget your hcg . 250iu, 2x a week. Y

What's your pct going to be?

[ScotchGuard02]

If the Test only cycle worked for you, you should think about running it again. Why add compounds if Test only works? I used to front load but I don't any more. Honestly, I haven't noticed any difference between front loading and not on gains I can hang onto after PCT. Diet seems to be a bigger factor in how lean I get and what I can keep after PCT. If you want to run a Deca cycle you should think about running a 12 wk to 14 wk cycle. Deca is a longer ester and takes a while to get started. I run 600mg/wk or more on a Deca cycle. Deca's A:A is 125:37 to Test's 100:100 (standard) but Tren is 500:500 (muther of all steroids ). Deca's not too strong so you'll need to up the dose a bit.

[charger69]

Agree with the test only cycle. Also agree with changing Tbol with dbol if you a mate going to use a kickstarter. Min of 12 weeks if you use deca .

All of this AAS is fine, but if you do not have the right diet, it is all a waste.

[Sh0tsf1red]

I agree with charger above.

I think you should take some extra time off with the SARMs , those are just as taxing as AAS and in time will be considered AAS.

[songdog]

You really don't need to run a 19Nor on your 2nd cycle bro grow into your dose.

[batesy]

Ok , I'll be patient and wait the standard time off even though it's SARM's. Gives me more time to plan, save and source.

I'm not sure of the availability of TBol here in Australia. I'll look into it though. If I can't find a source I'll stick to DBol with an AI.

I do realise by adding two compounds I'm skipping a step. I'll think on it but if I do stick with Deca I'll run for 12 weeks as seems to be the consensus.

For an AI I'm looking at Arimidex . What dose would you recommend?

So far I'm at:
Weeks 1-4: Dbol/Tbol 30mg/ED with Milk Thistle
Weeks 1-12: Deca 400mg/wk
Weeks 1-12: Test 600mg/wk
Weeks 1-14(AI): Arimidex 0.25mg EOD. Don't want it to effect gains. If symptoms occur I'll up the dose.
Week 15(PCT): Clomid 75mg
Weeks 16-17(PCT): Clomid 50mg/ED
Weeks 18-19(PCT): Clomid 25mg/ED

I'm still researching HCG

[john13]

If I can add in my two cents...

I tend to be pretty conservative when it comes to cycling. I would suggest that you use the typical wait period to start your cycle, even if you only did use SARMS last time.

As someone else said, tbol is a good alternative to dbol . Dbol will give you greater gains, but it aromatizes and causes bloat, so you'll need to counter that with some ai. Personally, I prefer tbol. It's just easier to use. And the gains you'll get from deca and test will already be good enough already.

I would also run it like this:
Weeks 1-4: Dbol/Tbol 30mg/ED
Weeks 1-10: Deca 400mg/wk
Weeks 1-12: Test 500mg/wk

Don't forget your hcg . 250iu, 2x a week. Y

What's your pct going to be?

whats the point on runing hcg while cycle? its contraproducent lol. hcg will help your balls to comback while steroids will shut them no sense on sending 2 different mesages to your body. I think its much better use it pre pct at 1500-1000 Iu week for 4 weeks

[charger69]

Ok. Still recommend test only. You will get great gains.
The only real way to know if you should up the dose of your AI is to have blood work. Without this, you are just guessing and run the risk of crashing your e2.
I highly recommend NAC in place of milk thistle and I personally take it while cycling, oral or not.
I recommend clomid and nolva for PCT.


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[GearHeaded]

if suppression is your biggest worry then just run Test again and add something like VAR which is not very suppressive

[batesy]

if suppression is your biggest worry then just run Test again and add something like VAR which is not very suppressive

Temporary suppression doesn't worry me. Like while on cycle through to PCT and a little after. Permanent suppression though I don't want. If this is a risk with Deca maybe I should just run TBol if I can source it or DBol if not?
I'd be interested on hearing from other peoples experience that have run Deca. Or even this stack. It seems to be quite common. Has it caused permanent suppression for you or did you return to normal given time?

[batesy]

I'm starting to think I'll run Dbol a little longer. 30mg/day weeks 1-4. 20mg/day weeks 5-6

[GearHeaded]

if long term suppression is your biggest worry , then I'd stick to shorter esters and shorter cycles , so NO not Deca (super long ester and needs to be ran for a long duration) . If you want to run Nandrolone (Deca) then run a short ester of it like NPP and you can get by with running it only 8 weeks and kicks in way faster then deca.

You'll be dissapointed with T-bol compared to D-bol, especially if your bulking (T-bol has its place when your wanting to go dry and keep estrogen low .. which isn't a bulk).
D-bol is a great compound if you use it correctly . blasting it for 4 short weeks is not using it correctly and thats why guys say you blow up then just piss all your gains away .
personally I recommend 8-10 weeks using a taper down method . This allows your body to acclimate to the water gains and grow new tissue rather then lose it all , cause after only 4 weeks your body has no reason to keep those gains.
start with a high dose then lower it as your cycle goes on.
eg.
50mg week 1-4
40mg week 5-6
30mg week 7-8
20mg week 9-10

[Couchlock]

The whole time off thing is to let your body's hormones stabilize and get back to normal functioning. If something suppresses hpta, it doesn't matter what it is, its a shut down and you do,t as t to pct and jump right back into it again.