Decanoate esters- how do they work?

[workingout123]

Hi all new member here. I am curious about steroid decanoate esters, and also creatine decanoate which is in Tokyo Nutritions product Deca Creatine. When steroid decanoates are injected I assume some of the bond is broken in the blood by esterase enzymes but that enough of it survives to enter cells via passive diffusion because of the decanoate which effectively delivers non fat soluble testosterone into the cells. With Deca Creatine because it is taken orally some will break because of lipases, and esterase enzymes in the intestines, and so may not survive enough to the blood to get creatine into cells the same way the testosterone decanoate esters do. Please correct this if it is wrong. Thank you.

[kronik420]

what?

[wrecks72]

I'm not real clear on what you're asking. I have never heard of a creatine with Deconate. As far as an oral an your description it sounds like you are on the right track.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=508958

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[workingout123]

Tokkyo nutriton makes creatine-decanoate just google it.

I am asking what happens to steroid decanoate esters once in the blood, and also what happens to decanoate esters such as creatine decanoate if they are taken orally.

[GearHeaded]

decaoanate esters are broken down by enzymes and expelled from the body just like anything else .. not sure exactly what your question is or what your asking . if creatine bonded to a deca ester is beneficial ? probably not. I personally take my creatine with 10iu of insulin and 100 g of amleopectin and EAAs to speed up the absorption rate and uptake into the cell when cell signaling is at its highest , i.e., pari-workout .

slowing down the absorption of creatine with decaoanate makes no sense to me.. heck just eat a steak which is high in creatine and high in fat and the fat will slow the absorption down naturally.

don't forget creatine is nothing but a naturally occurring 'nutrient' found in food , its not a drug or supplement

[workingout123]

If there was no point in them then no one would make steroids bonded to them would they now? Not a steroid taker myself I assume the reason the decanoate is bonded to the steroid is so once in the blood stream it can partition into the cell with ease which a steroid hormone can not do itself.

The decanoate is not bonded to creatine to "slow absorption" it is bonded to it to make it fat soluble.

[GearHeaded]

I may be completely wrong on this , but off the top my head the reason the decaoanate ester was formulated was so that anemia, aids, osteoporosis, patients would not have to go in for a daily shot of their medicine .. the decaoanate ester allows them to receive one large 'depot' of the drug that would slowly absorb over time and thus take the medicine once every two weeks instead of once a day


but I wouldn't doubt a supplement company that would make money off of selling saw dust would find some way to bring this to the consumer market and make something that works just fine, ie creatine, and make it more expensive and 'new' just by saying they use 'decaoante'

[workingout123]

Okay yeh after reading about it more it does slow absorption... which I guess means the esterase enzymes in the blood are slow to break the bond between the decanoate, and steroid hormone or creatine. And it also makes it fat soluble... so the compound bonded to the decanoate can diffuse slowly over time into the cells. This is of course assuming that the main site of action of the testosterone decanoates is intra, and not extra cellular. As for creatine its site of action is intra cellular.

[Quester]

It would be a misconception to assume that just because a company, "[B]Tokyo whatever/B]" uses the word deconate, that it has any real relationship to the use of the word in science or as it describes steroid compounds.

[workingout123]

Umm decanoate is a 10 carbon fatty acid that is commonly esterified to things to make them more lipid soluble. I am assuming you know that but deliberately lied. It is the same compound esterified to steroid hormones.

[Obs]

Umm decanoate is a 10 carbon fatty acid that is commonly esterified to things to make them more lipid soluble. I am assuming you know that but deliberately lied. It is the same compound esterified to steroid hormones.

Please school us. I have been trying to not be rude but you seem to be the typical motherfucker that asks a question and shuns advice.
Creatine decanoate is a fucking vitamin supplement made by a fucking moron with 5 grand and a dream of capitalistic venture.

Take all the "creatine deca" you want and you will get jack.

Decanoate is a longer acting ester attached to nandrolone most commonly, yet not exclusively.
May I suggest you continue your biased study on a retard board like eroids?????????

You "deliberately" have no fucking clue who you are talking to, or what advice you have shunned. Dumbass questions get dumbass response.

Creatine is a rapid absorption compound and for it to be attached to any esther is asenine. It would be comparable to iron decanoate or an amino decanoate.
You are literally mistaking a brand name for a chemical name.

[workingout123]

Wow touchy. You sound angry at creatine decanoate. Maybe you sell a competing product. It's only a molecule don't get angry at it. Of course it is better than mono but I am not here to debate the golden lie of the supplement industry "creatine mono is the best all the rest are a scam".

And from wiki. I guess we have to establish the basics:

Decanoate ester prodrugs of various pharmaceuticals are available. Since decanoic acid is a fatty acid, forming a salt or ester with a drug will increase its lipophilicity and its affinity for fatty tissue. Since distribution of a drug from fatty tissue is usually slow, one may develop a long-acting injectable form of a drug (called a Depot injection) by using its decanoate form. Some examples of drugs available as a decanoate ester include nandrolone, fluphenazine, bromperidol, and haloperidol.

[Obs]

I can make you some creatine deca tren 700 suspension if you like. Seems like a hell of a selling point.

[Obs]

Wow touchy. You sound angry at creatine decanoate. Maybe you sell a competing product. It's only a molecule don't get angry at it. Of course it is better than mono but I am not here to debate the golden lie of the supplement industry "creatine mono is the best all the rest are a scam".

And from wiki. I guess we have to establish the basics:

Decanoate ester prodrugs of various pharmaceuticals are available. Since decanoic acid is a fatty acid, forming a salt or ester with a drug will increase its lipophilicity and its affinity for fatty tissue. Since distribution of a drug from fatty tissue is usually slow, one may develop a long-acting injectable form of a drug (called a Depot injection) by using its decanoate form. Some examples of drugs available as a decanoate ester include nandrolone, fluphenazine, bromperidol, and haloperidol.

You are beyond help here. Gotta be a teenager.
This aint my first rodeo kid. Good luck on your supplement search.

[Obs]

"iiiii beeeen reeealy try'n baaaa bae
try'a hold baaack theeese feelin's fo so looong"

[almostgone]

Wow touchy. You sound angry at creatine decanoate. Maybe you sell a competing product. It's only a molecule don't get angry at it. Of course it is better than mono but I am not here to debate the golden lie of the supplement industry "creatine mono is the best all the rest are a scam".

And from wiki. I guess we have to establish the basics:

Decanoate ester prodrugs of various pharmaceuticals are available. Since decanoic acid is a fatty acid, forming a salt or ester with a drug will increase its lipophilicity and its affinity for fatty tissue. Since distribution of a drug from fatty tissue is usually slow, one may develop a long-acting injectable form of a drug (called a Depot injection) by using its decanoate form. Some examples of drugs available as a decanoate ester include nandrolone, fluphenazine, bromperidol, and haloperidol.

Not jumping on your post here, but if I were trying to prove a point and needed reference material to back my claim, Wiki isn't even a reference I would consider using.

[almostgone]

decaoanate esters are broken down by enzymes and expelled from the body just like anything else .. not sure exactly what your question is or what your asking . if creatine bonded to a deca ester is beneficial ? probably not. I personally take my creatine with 10iu of insulin and 100 g of amleopectin and EAAs to speed up the absorption rate and uptake into the cell when cell signaling is at its highest , i.e., pari-workout .

slowing down the absorption of creatine with decaoanate makes no sense to me.. heck just eat a steak which is high in creatine and high in fat and the fat will slow the absorption down naturally.

don't forget creatine is nothing but a naturally occurring 'nutrient' found in food , its not a drug or supplement

I'm pretty much of the same school of thought as GearHeaded on this. I do supplement with creatine mono, but beef is my primary source of creatine.
I've tried about all of the marketed creatine products out there.... Creatine AAKG, Tri-creatine malate, tri-creatine citrate, etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
I find my wallet is fatter and I'm am happy supplementing with plain old creatine mono.
Now, does creatine decanoate sound like a whiz banger of a product name....you bet. Attach decanoate to the name of any supplement and you'll draw attention.

[almostgone]

Everyone please feel free to debate on the subject, as that is why the forum is here. Just keep it relatively respectful, please.

[Obs]

Everyone please feel free to debate on the subject, as that is why the forum is here. Just keep it relatively respectful, please.

Sorry he just bit my buttons blowing gearhead and quester off.

[almostgone]

Sorry he just bit my buttons blowing gearhead and quester off.

No worries. We're all passionate about our lifting, nutrition, etc. That's why we beat ourselves to hell and back in the gym.

[workingout123]

Well I would of referenced scientific studies on decanoate but I assume you already know about them, and are playing dumb so...

And all those forms of creatine you said are salts, not esters so creatine decanoate ester is different than them. But again you already know this. The salesmen in this industry are some of the most deceptive people in the world.

[Obs]

Well I would of referenced scientific studies on decanoate but I assume you already know about them, and are playing dumb so...

And all those forms of creatine you said are salts, not esters so creatine decanoate ester is different than them. But again you already know this. The salesmen in this industry are some of the most deceptive people in the world.

I know decanoate.
I know decanoate like my atrophied testicles.
I also take creatine.
Creatine is ok by me, same as decanoate.
"Creatine decanoate" is an oxymoron.

You are talking about a drug that can be made in its purest bioavailable form being atrached to an esther...

Its literally like saying "protein decanoate" or "gatorade water"...

It is a vitamin supplement that is just using "deca" as a selling point.

Look up at the top and you will see "test-600" for sale.
That is a vitamin supplement and not a for real no shit steroid or anabolic compound. You are studying the wrong shit.

[almostgone]

Well I would of referenced scientific studies on decanoate but I assume you already know about them, and are playing dumb so...

And all those forms of creatine you said are salts, not esters so creatine decanoate ester is different than them. But again you already know this. The salesmen in this industry are some of the most deceptive people in the world.

I agree the supplement industry is vicious. There is one site that I like called Examine .com It seems to have a fairly complete compilation of studies to back up what they state.
Perhaps visit it and search supplements for creatine. Don't know if it will have what you are looking for, but they do have a great compilation of legit studies.

[workingout123]

Examine.com is marketing for shitty products, and you know it. The creatine section is the standard bs all salesmen spout. You are worse than used car salesmen.

"Creatine decanoate is an oxymoron" Why don't you email Tokkyo Nutrition, and tell them there product is not real. Let the chemists, scientists, and engineers who make it know it is not real too. It sounds like it is you who is the moron.

[almostgone]

Examine.com is marketing for shitty products, and you know it. The creatine section is the standard bs all salesmen spout. You are worse than used car salesmen.

"Creatine decanoate is an oxymoron" Why don't you email Tokkyo Nutrition, and tell them there product is not real. Let the chemists, scientists, and engineers who make it know it is not real too. It sounds like it is you who is the moron.

Easy, killer. I didn't suggest buying a thing there, I said they have a good compilation of legit studies.
I've been respectful to you, not sure why you are jumping at me. If you want to continue to be welcome here, I suggest you rethink your attitude.

[almostgone]

Examine.com is marketing for shitty products, and you know it. The creatine section is the standard bs all salesmen spout. You are worse than used car salesmen.

"Creatine decanoate is an oxymoron" Why don't you email Tokkyo Nutrition, and tell them there product is not real. Let the chemists, scientists, and engineers who make it know it is not real too. It sounds like it is you who is the moron.

By the way, I never posted what is in bold above. You just snapped, maybe you want to go back and read again?

[workingout123]

I know it was addressed to the other guy. How about telling some truth for a change about the supplement creatine. It could make for an interesting conversation though it might hurt the bottom line $$$ if you know what I mean.

[almostgone]

I know it was addressed to the other guy. How about telling some truth for a change about the supplement creatine. It could make for an interesting conversation though it might hurt the bottom line $$$ if you know what I mean.

I feel everything I posted is the truth. I have no vested interest in any business, I am just posting from my experience and what I have found useful.

[Couchlock]

this product contains a proprietary blend of creatine decanate creatine monohydrate and creatine ethyl Ester

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the create and decking it is the most expensive compound to produce in that blend and probably contains a trace amount of it if any just so they can label that it's in it

Also create and decking it seems like a solution to a problem that does not exist

[workingout123]

I thought the same thing but by law the ingredient in the highest concentration has to be labelled first so it is at least 34% creatine decanoate by weight. And creatine decanoate is only around 16 USD per kg from suppliers on Ali Baba but the minimum order quantity is 100kg.

Decanoate by itself has been shown to increase absorption of things from the intestines, and maybe even uptake into cells also.

[GearHeaded]

I suggest buying Tokkyo Nutritions creatine decaoanate , take a before picture and post it on this thread, then take this creatine for 30 days and post up your after pictures


as for me I'll stick to the acetate ester, namely Tren acetate

[Couchlock]

I thought the same thing but by law the ingredient in the highest concentration has to be labelled first so it is at least 34% creatine decanoate by weight. And creatine decanoate is only around 16 USD per kg from suppliers on Ali Baba but the minimum order quantity is 100kg.

Decanoate by itself has been shown to increase absorption of things from the intestines, and maybe even uptake into cells also.

you need to watch a documentary called bigger stronger faster by Mark Bell, there's a scene where he decides to start selling a supplement he gets some raw ingredients in about five Mexicans off the side of the road caps up pills print the label and Bam on the store shelves and a website made selling the product there is no FDA guidelines for any of these supplements so by law that means jack schitt

[Couchlock]

I thought the same thing but by law the ingredient in the highest concentration has to be labelled first so it is at least 34% creatine decanoate by weight. And creatine decanoate is only around 16 USD per kg from suppliers on Ali Baba but the minimum order quantity is 100kg.

Decanoate by itself has been shown to increase absorption of things from the intestines, and maybe even uptake into cells also.

and also when Esters are attached to things like steroids they are doing it to slow down the release of a Depot injection eating it with creatine really isn't going to do much because creative doesn't have an issue due to its Half-Life and how your body uses it again adding an ester to a creatine, is just a solution to a problem that does not exist

[workingout123]

you need to watch a documentary called bigger stronger faster by Mark Bell, there's a scene where he decides to start selling a supplement he gets some raw ingredients in about five Mexicans off the side of the road caps up pills print the label and Bam on the store shelves and a website made selling the product there is no FDA guidelines for any of these supplements so by law that means jack schitt

Creatine monohydrate has the same problem. It just has 1 part creatine 99 parts baking powder in it. There is no FDA guidelines.

Yes creatine half life is short in the plasma only 90 minutes so esterfication would help that a lot... and the whole fat soluble thing.

[Couchlock]

Creatine monohydrate has the same problem. It just has 1 part creatine 99 parts baking powder in it. There is no FDA guidelines.

Yes creatine half life is short in the plasma only 90 minutes so esterfication would help that a lot... and the whole fat soluble thing.

The point of creatine supplementation is to get a high dose in you after or during workout. No need for a trickle dose

And as far as your statement of monohydrate having 1% creatine in it and 99% baking soda, maybe were you get it, but not all brands are cut like that.

But even if so,the 1% creatine, still will not benefit from a deca-ester
But you seem to have some kind of horse in this race, do you have buyers remorse because you paid through the nose for a fancy bottle of shit? Or do you truly believe you found the holy grail of body building supplements and tokkyo nutrition has the market cornered for some ground breaking "add 30 lbs of pure lean mass in 30 days" creatine form?
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[Couchlock]

The 2 brands I use...

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[kelkel]

Examine.com is marketing for shitty products, and you know it.

Examine.com markets nothing. Not sure what your agenda here is but your condescending attitude stinks. Change it or simply find another forum.

[GearHeaded]

Creatine is stored in muscle cells. When our bodies use creatine during muscle contraction to stimulate ADP/ATP it is using this STORED Creatine.

the whole point in taking a creatine supplement is to simply get it absorbed from the gastro tract and put into and stored in muscle cells where it can be used.. slowing down the absorption of dietary creatine has zero benefit. All we are trying to do by ingesting it in the first place is to fill up the storage in muscle cells.

[Obs]

All this has me thinking I need some "creatine undecanoate" (crebido)

I will attach it to the undeconoate ester and you will need one glass four times a year...

GET YOUR CREBIDO TODAY AND WE WILL DOUBLE YOUR ORDER !!!

[kronik420]

i'd rather eat a steak.. no ester. what's the half life on that?