Bulk To Cut: 9 month plan

Greetings! New to the clan but a long time lurker. I am looking to put together a 9 month plan with target peak date of Sept 1, 2018.

Stats: 42yr - 6'5" - 240lb - 7%
TRT: Started June after testing low (180). Test-E 200mg/wk
Target Body Type: Male Physique
Cycle History: Experienced
Notes: Gyno Prone
Goal: Most effective use of timing to maximize a bulk followed by a cut cycle while bridging with TRT.

Current: I am just finishing a cutter of
Prop/Tren/Mast - 100mg/EOD
Var - 60mg/day
Clen - 100mg/day
Adex - .25mg/day
Nolv - 20mg/day

Very happy with where my body is at, but looking to get to the next level
I am new to TRT so i'm still learning about replacing my PCT with it, the do's and don't, timing and what not so please excuse my ignorance on it.
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Timeline Gameplan:
Dec 2 2017: (for 8 weeks) Come off cutter and go on TRT dose of 200mg Test-E/wk and .25 adex/day
Jan 27: (for 12 weeks) Bulking cycle
April 21: (for 8 weeks) Come off cutter and go on TRT dose of 200mg Test-E/wk and .25 adex/day
June 16: (for 11 weeks) Cutting Cycle
Sept 2: Target Peak Date
___________________________________________

Bulking cycle:
Test E/Tren E/Mast E 500mg/week each
Wk 1-4- Dbol 40mg/ED
letrozole for AI (I still get gyno on Nol/adex)

6000 Calorie clean bulk diet
Considering swapping Mast out for Deca

Cutting cycle:
Diet is already on point (carb cycle)
Prop/Tren/Mast - 100mg/EOD
Var - 60mg/day
Clen - 100mg/day
Adex - .25mg/day
Nolv - 20mg/day

i am considering bumping the prop/tren/mast to 150 EOD
___________________________________________
Sorry this is a pretty broad post with a ton of shit to pick apart, but please have at it I would love to hear from the Pros where i can tweak this game plan.
Thanks in advance

just a couple of quick thoughts
- .25 Adex every day on 200mg of test is an awful lot

- from my experience test/tren/mast is not the best combo for growth in a bulk . now with the Test at a high dose and the D-bol in there to start, that will help (need some aromatizing compounds to help with growth especially with Tren)
Tren is great for muscle building, but for real growth you need some estrogen . When ranchers inject cattle with Tren to get them to grow or hold weight during transit they also inject them with a ton of estrogen .

-swapping the mast out for deca in the bulk is an idea . but keep in mind you'll probably need caber or prami running two nandrolones . personally , I would keep Mast in there at a low dose for its SHBG affinity and add in deca or NPP as well.

-running too much AI during a bulk will hinder your gains especially with Tren . If your gyno prone then run a SERM

EDIT-- yeah just noticed you are gyno prone and have tried running a SERM on cycle , to no avail huh? have you tried raloxifine ? keeping your estrogen super low on a bulk with Letro is not going to be the best thing for growth , but you don't want gyno either , so that puts you in a bit of a jam.

- D-bol at 40mg for only 4 weeks is a waste . Running D-bol that way is the reason d-bol has a bad name and why guys say you just piss the gains away cause its all water weight . D-bol needs ran for a much longer time. you can start high then taper the dosage down over time . 8-10 weeks . you have to keep taking it after your initial 4-5 week blast to get your body to acclimate to the weight gain. the intercellular water retention and glycogen storage it gives you is a good thing and will help you grow over time (as amino acids get uptaken into the cell with all that water) . but if you stop too soon you'll loose all that and it will be a waste. also make sure your on a high carb diet with this


- for your cut , I prefer Tren, Primo, Var as my main compounds for a cut. Mast is ok to, primo is better. I also prefer to keep the test very low and fill in the gap with a little bit of EQ (which is nothing but a cleaner testosterone)
I see No need for test prop for your cut , I'd just stay on TRT and add no additional test to this cycle
I'd add in T3 to the cut

are you running blends or individual compounds ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by build4soul

Greetings! New to the clan but a long time lurker. I am looking to put together a 9 month plan with target peak date of Sept 1, 2018.

Stats: 42yr - 6'5" - 240lb - 7%
TRT: Started June after testing low (180). Test-E 200mg/wk
Target Body Type: Male Physique
Cycle History: Experienced
Notes: Gyno Prone
Goal: Most effective use of timing to maximize a bulk followed by a cut cycle while bridging with TRT.

Current: I am just finishing a cutter of
Prop/Tren/Mast - 100mg/EOD
Var - 60mg/day
Clen - 100mg/day
Adex - .25mg/day
Nolv - 20mg/day

Very happy with where my body is at, but looking to get to the next level
I am new to TRT so i'm still learning about replacing my PCT with it, the do's and don't, timing and what not so please excuse my ignorance on it.
___________________________________________

Timeline Gameplan:
Dec 2 2017: (for 8 weeks) Come off cutter and go on TRT dose of 200mg Test-E/wk and .25 adex/day
Jan 27: (for 12 weeks) Bulking cycle
April 21: (for 8 weeks) Come off cutter and go on TRT dose of 200mg Test-E/wk and .25 adex/day
June 16: (for 11 weeks) Cutting Cycle
Sept 2: Target Peak Date
___________________________________________

Bulking cycle:
Test E/Tren E/Mast E 500mg/week each
Wk 1-4- Dbol 40mg/ED
letrozole for AI (I still get gyno on Nol/adex)

6000 Calorie clean bulk diet
Considering swapping Mast out for Deca

Cutting cycle:
Diet is already on point (carb cycle)
Prop/Tren/Mast - 100mg/EOD
Var - 60mg/day
Clen - 100mg/day
Adex - .25mg/day
Nolv - 20mg/day

i am considering bumping the prop/tren/mast to 150 EOD
___________________________________________
Sorry this is a pretty broad post with a ton of shit to pick apart, but please have at it I would love to hear from the Pros where i can tweak this game plan.
Thanks in advance

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Dude, you’re a monster!

I would echo what Gearhead said. I’m in the same boat so running maybe .25mg of Adex EOD helped keep me gyno free and not crash my E2. You might even try doing 10mg of novadex just to keep the nips happy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by build4soul

Greetings! New to the clan but a long time lurker. I am looking to put together a 9 month plan with target peak date of Sept 1, 2018.

Stats: 42yr - 6'5" - 240lb - 7%
TRT: Started June after testing low (180). Test-E 200mg/wk
Target Body Type: Male Physique
Cycle History: Experienced
Notes: Gyno Prone
Goal: Most effective use of timing to maximize a bulk followed by a cut cycle while bridging with TRT.

Current: I am just finishing a cutter of
Prop/Tren/Mast - 100mg/EOD
Var - 60mg/day
Clen - 100mg/day
Adex - .25mg/day
Nolv - 20mg/day

Very happy with where my body is at, but looking to get to the next level
I am new to TRT so i'm still learning about replacing my PCT with it, the do's and don't, timing and what not so please excuse my ignorance on it.
___________________________________________

Timeline Gameplan:
Dec 2 2017: (for 8 weeks) Come off cutter and go on TRT dose of 200mg Test-E/wk and .25 adex/day
Jan 27: (for 12 weeks) Bulking cycle
April 21: (for 8 weeks) Come off cutter and go on TRT dose of 200mg Test-E/wk and .25 adex/day
June 16: (for 11 weeks) Cutting Cycle
Sept 2: Target Peak Date
___________________________________________

Bulking cycle:
Test E/Tren E/Mast E 500mg/week each
Wk 1-4- Dbol 40mg/ED
letrozole for AI (I still get gyno on Nol/adex)

6000 Calorie clean bulk diet
Considering swapping Mast out for Deca

Cutting cycle:
Diet is already on point (carb cycle)
Prop/Tren/Mast - 100mg/EOD
Var - 60mg/day
Clen - 100mg/day
Adex - .25mg/day
Nolv - 20mg/day

i am considering bumping the prop/tren/mast to 150 EOD
___________________________________________
Sorry this is a pretty broad post with a ton of shit to pick apart, but please have at it I would love to hear from the Pros where i can tweak this game plan.
Thanks in advance

---

Glad I do not have to pay for your meals. Not sure I would want to see what you pay per week at the grocery store.

MS and GH know their stuff. I bet Kel jumps in here as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

just a couple of quick thoughts
- .25 Adex every day on 200mg of test is an awful lot

- from my experience test/tren/mast is not the best combo for growth in a bulk . now with the Test at a high dose and the D-bol in there to start, that will help (need some aromatizing compounds to help with growth especially with Tren)
Tren is great for muscle building, but for real growth you need some estrogen . When ranchers inject cattle with Tren to get them to grow or hold weight during transit they also inject them with a ton of estrogen .

-swapping the mast out for deca in the bulk is an idea . but keep in mind you'll probably need caber or prami running two nandrolones . personally , I would keep Mast in there at a low dose for its SHBG affinity and add in deca or NPP as well.

-running too much AI during a bulk will hinder your gains especially with Tren . If your gyno prone then run a SERM

EDIT-- yeah just noticed you are gyno prone and have tried running a SERM on cycle , to no avail huh? have you tried raloxifine ? keeping your estrogen super low on a bulk with Letro is not going to be the best thing for growth , but you don't want gyno either , so that puts you in a bit of a jam.

- D-bol at 40mg for only 4 weeks is a waste . Running D-bol that way is the reason d-bol has a bad name and why guys say you just piss the gains away cause its all water weight . D-bol needs ran for a much longer time. you can start high then taper the dosage down over time . 8-10 weeks . you have to keep taking it after your initial 4-5 week blast to get your body to acclimate to the weight gain. the intercellular water retention and glycogen storage it gives you is a good thing and will help you grow over time (as amino acids get uptaken into the cell with all that water) . but if you stop too soon you'll loose all that and it will be a waste. also make sure your on a high carb diet with this


- for your cut , I prefer Tren, Primo, Var as my main compounds for a cut. Mast is ok to, primo is better. I also prefer to keep the test very low and fill in the gap with a little bit of EQ (which is nothing but a cleaner testosterone)
I see No need for test prop for your cut , I'd just stay on TRT and add no additional test to this cycle
I'd add in T3 to the cut

are you running blends or individual compounds ?

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GH - I am a little confused. Why primo over mast for cutting? Primo is faked frequently and rather expensive. I only used it once and was not impressed. The first time I used mast, I fell in love.
I also understand that he is going into a competition. Why wouldnt he change to a short esther of prop? I would expect that you would not want the water retention from the longer esther.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charger69

GH - I am a little confused. Why primo over mast for cutting? Primo is faked frequently and rather expensive. I only used it once and was not impressed. The first time I used mast, I fell in love.
I also understand that he is going into a competition. Why wouldnt he change to a short esther of prop? I would expect that you would not want the water retention from the longer esther.

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I've gotten Primo prescribed to me by an anti-aging clinic . Primo is way better then Masteron from my experience (though on paper they are really fairly similar). Primo is a way better nutrient partitioner and an anti-catabolic , and during a cut thats the most important thing, ie., maintaining that hard earned muscle.

so all I can compare is legit primo to masteron . I'm sure plenty of guys have had bad impressions of Primo cause they simply got EQ or something cheap . there is good reason why Primo is pricey , it works great and has zero side effects .. lots of guys think a steroid is 'strong' simply because they get strong side effects , primo just smoothly works and keeps your muscles full and hard even in a calorie deficit.
Masteron is good as well, just not as good Imo as primo .

I did not catch that he was prepping for a show , I just thought he was cutting. if its show prep my advice and stack suggestion would be very different then what I gave. but for a standard cutting cycle, I just like to keep a basic TRT dose of test E. if we are going to be trying to pull water for show prep, then I actually suggest switching to test Prop the last few weeks, then pulling test out all together about a week or so before. for a standard cut though just stick with TRT Imo . and leave the dose low and let the things like Primo and tren do their thing

GH I guess I have alot to learn from you... How in the heck did you get a prescription for primo? I have 169 of test and cannot get TRT with my doc, but GH gets a prescription for Primo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charger69

GH I guess I have alot to learn from you... How in the heck did you get a prescription for primo? I have 169 of test and cannot get TRT with my doc, but GH gets a prescription for Primo?

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You need a different doctor!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guitarzan

You need a different doctor!

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After 3 months of testing, I gave up on this since I compete. My bulking was drastically diminished due to this.
I will self medicate until I finish competing.
There is a low T clinic that I am sure would agree to give me TRT but The initial testing would interfere with my schedule.


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My doc will prescribe it, but I get it for half the price, not to mention I don't have to pay the doc. Cool thing is he will order blood work whenever I want, he knows I blast and cruise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charger69

GH I guess I have alot to learn from you... How in the heck did you get a prescription for primo? I have 169 of test and cannot get TRT with my doc, but GH gets a prescription for Primo?

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there are some anti-aging / vitality clinics in the state of FL that treat 'aging' likes its a disease and use medications to help (they only take patients 35 and over). They also take preventative measures to help prevent age related issues , one of these issues is 'muscle wasting' disease and bone loss (which begins to happen after age 35 or so) . things like Primobolan, Nandrolone, VAR can be prescribed to treat this problem . they also of course do HRT and HGH.

BUT the downside is you have to pay big big bucks to get 'treated' at a clinic like this. After the initial set up and consultation though the process is easy. Once I got approved for treatment with Primo and Nandro (to prevent muscle wasting because of my disease called 'aging') they simply sent the order into the pharmacy.
anytime I ran low (which was often) I just called in, they checked my medical file, I gave my CC and they sent another order in to the pharmacy.

Quote:

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I did not catch that he was prepping for a show

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I should have specified. Yes this is prepping for Nationals.

Quote:

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- .25 Adex every day on 200mg of test is an awful lot

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Yes, that should have read EOD.

Quote:

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just noticed you are gyno prone and have tried running a SERM on cycle , to no avail huh? have you tried raloxifine ? keeping your estrogen super low on a bulk with Letro is not going to be the best thing for growth

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Never tried Raloxifine but keeping hearing good things about it. Might be time to give it a whirl. I have not tried Letro either. I have cabasar, nolvadex, arimidex on hand and despite the compounds I take will suffer from minor gyno while running those AI’s. If I don’t run any AI my gyno is visible with naked eye which doesn’t work for me

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D-bol at 40mg for only 4 weeks is a waste

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Noted on the longer run time. I was considering replacing D-bol with T-bol. I know I won’t get the same gains, just like the fact it doesn’t convert to estrogen. Thoughts on that switch?

Quote:

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are you running blends or individual compounds ?

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Was going to run blends and balance them out with individuals, but I have no problem just getting individuals exclusively to meet the cycle goals.

Very much appreciate the input this far GH. Invaluable to have people like you out there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by build4soul

Noted on the longer run time. I was considering replacing D-bol with T-bol. I know I won’t get the same gains, just like the fact it doesn’t convert to estrogen. Thoughts on that switch?

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I like D-bol much better for a bulk . Yes its harder to control estgeon with it , but Letro would do the trick. D-bol has many attributes that help you bulk up (actually estrogen is one of them, but again not for the gyno prone), the water retention you get from it is a good thing. Intercellular water retention and filling out muscle glycogen not only gives you that full look, but when water and glycogen are driving into muscle cells amino acids go along for the ride . so over time you'll get some real tissue build and growth out of it. its not just a bunch of water and that full swole look that you piss away when you come off , it does much more then that. add in a high carb diet and make benefit of its nutrient partitioning effects as well.

D-bol is also a type 2 steroid , so its going to work apart from binding to the androgen receptor . so it won't 'compete' with your test and tren , it works its muscle building effects outside of the AR, and is a good add on imo to test and tren for bulking.

T-bol is an option being it does not convert to estrogen , it also has zero androgenic properties. its really just a modified D-bol, but not near as powerful and your not going to get that water weight and fullness with T-bol . I like to use T-bol when I'm just cruising on Test as an added anabolic , but its a slow going compound .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

add in a high carb diet and make benefit of its nutrient partitioning effects as well.

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Started my bulker this week. I ended up going with a 13 week plan (had to cut it short due to time constraints with peak target date)
1-13 Test-E 600mg/wk
1-13 Tren-E 450mg/wk
1-13 Mast-E 600mg/wk
1-6 Dbol 50mb/day (may push that a few weeks longer)
HGH 4iu/day

I feel my bulking diet is lacking. Was hoping you might tweak this or offer any constructive criticism to diet.

7:30am Meal 1:
5 Eggs
5 strips bacon
Oatmeal 1 cup (or bagel with PB&J)
Blueberries 1 cup

10:30am Meal 2:
Chicken 8 oz.
White Rice 1 1/2 cup
Broccoli 1 cup

Pre-Gym 12:00
BCAA
Oatmeal 1 cup

1:30pm Meal 3: Post-workout
Protein Shake
P28 Bagel
Almond Butter 1 tbsp

3:30pm Meal 4:
Turkey 8 oz. (or chicken)
Sweet Potato 10 oz.
Asparagus 1 cup

6:00pm Meal 5:
Steak 12-16 oz.
Sweet Potato 12 oz.
Green Beans 1 cup
Almonds 1/4 cup

9:00pm Meal 6:
6 eggs
Almond Butter 1 tbsp
Cottage Cheese

I don't have an issue eating fats, so don't mind the bacon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by build4soul

Started my bulker this week. I ended up going with a 13 week plan (had to cut it short due to time constraints with peak target date)
1-13 Test-E 600mg/wk
1-13 Tren-E 450mg/wk
1-13 Mast-E 600mg/wk I prefer Deca or NPP for bulking over Mast. Works well with Dbol. If you've dialed in your cycle I wouldn't change it. Maybe next time.
1-6 Dbol 50mb/day (may push that a few weeks longer)
HGH 4iu/day

I feel my bulking diet is lacking. Was hoping you might tweak this or offer any constructive criticism to diet.

7:30am Meal 1:
5 Eggs
5 strips bacon
Oatmeal 1 cup (or bagel with PB&J)
Blueberries 1 cup

10:30am Meal 2:
Chicken 8 oz.
White Rice 1 1/2 cup
Broccoli 1 cup

Pre-Gym 12:00
BCAA
Oatmeal 1 cup

1:30pm Meal 3: Post-workout
Protein Shake
P28 Bagel
Almond Butter 1 tbsp

3:30pm Meal 4:
Turkey 8 oz. (or chicken)
Sweet Potato 10 oz.
Asparagus 1 cup

6:00pm Meal 5:
Steak 12-16 oz.
Sweet Potato 12 oz.
Green Beans 1 cup
Almonds 1/4 cup

9:00pm Meal 6:
6 eggs
Almond Butter 1 tbsp
Cottage Cheese

I don't have an issue eating fats, so don't mind the bacon

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I didn't break down your foods into macros but you should be eating 40% in carbs and 30%/30% in protein and fats. Carbs helps to build muscle.

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Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

I didn't break down your foods into macros but you should be eating 40% in carbs and 30%/30% in protein and fats. Carbs helps to build muscle.

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I usually go higher on the protein and lower on the fat.... about 45/15.


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