5 weeks + 24 pounds

[TestoSuper]

Ehi guys,
I'm finishing 5th week of my 12 weeks bulking cycle, Sust /Deca /Dbol .
I've gained until now about 24 pounds, very little fat and bloat, greatly increased the upper part of the body... very very satisfied...
my question is: in your opinion have I other chances of growth? How many pounds can I expect by the end of the cycle?? I have another 7 weeks to go!!
About appetite I reached the limit, I can not eat more than that .. I would feel stomach and digestive disorders and prefer to avoid....

[GearHeaded]

steroids allow your body to retain a ton more intercellular water in the muscle cells as well as glycogen. this is the 'size' and weight that you have recently put on . now give it time and with all that water and glycogen going to muscles, increases in IGF, and proper training, actual tissue growth will begin taking place (this is a slower and less noticeable process , you may only get 3-5 pounds, but its actual tissue , not water)

[TestoSuper]

steroids allow your body to retain a ton more intercellular water in the muscle cells as well as glycogen. this is the 'size' and weight that you have recently put on . now give it time and with all that water and glycogen going to muscles, increases in IGF, and proper training, actual tissue growth will begin taking place (this is a slower and less noticeable process , you may only get 3-5 pounds, but its actual tissue , not water)

thanks for your answer .... ok so have I to keep eat and train like I did until now, right? Don't I have to make any changes to what I've done until now?
In my past cycles I have always increased well in weight but at the end of the cycle I had ever losing several pounds very fast ... I would like some advice to keep gains post cycle as much as possible ...

[GearHeaded]

once your off cycle you will actually need to eat a bit more to maintain gains as best you can. your protein requirement will go up, because without AAS your body is no longer going to be as efficient at using it. your fat and vitamin d intake will need to go up, as your body will have to begin making hormones on its own and not rely on it coming from a needle.
however your carbohydrate intake can go slightly down, as your body will no longer be able to use that much glucose as it can while on cycle .

up your protein and fats while on PCT and keep your calories high and keep training hard and heavy (give your body a reason to hold onto the muscle)

[charger69]

once your off cycle you will actually need to eat a bit more to maintain gains as best you can. your protein requirement will go up, because without AAS your body is no longer going to be as efficient at using it. your fat and vitamin d intake will need to go up, as your body will have to begin making hormones on its own and not rely on it coming from a needle.
however your carbohydrate intake can go slightly down, as your body will no longer be able to use that much glucose as it can while on cycle .

up your protein and fats while on PCT and keep your calories high and keep training hard and heavy (give your body a reason to hold onto the muscle)

What are your thoughts on the importance timing protein intake to optimize its synthesis.
I have read a couple of studies where optimization of the synthesis is an intake of 20-30 grams of protein and this lasts for about 3 hours. Obviously this study was without AAS.


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[GearHeaded]

What are your thoughts on the importance timing protein intake to optimize its synthesis.
I have read a couple of studies where optimization of the synthesis is an intake of 20-30 grams of protein and this lasts for about 3 hours. Obviously this study was without AAS.

its more complicated then a single bolus of protein . it really is going to depend on the protein you consume (e.g, whey Isolate vs Steak vs Beans) and what you consumed with that protein (ie., fats will slow down absorption of protein), the amino acid profile of the protein consumed , and individual tolerances of the protein source and enzymes needed to break down that protein (e.g, milk requires lactaid enzyme and some people don't have that) , and of course metabolism and thermodynamics of the individual .

optimal protein intake is too individual for me to make a blanket statement that 20-30 g every 3 hours is optimal .

really it doesn't matter in the big picture . if you consume more protein then you need to provide for protein synthesis in the body , then you'll just break the additional protein down through gluco-neogenisis by the liver and convert those proteins into glucose to be used as fuel or stored as body fat.


my personal advice and opinion, which is backed by zero studies or science. is to take in multiple different types of whole protein sources throughout the day in 20-50 gram servings . have steak and eggs for meal one , have salmon for meal two , have chicken and shrimp for meal three, have ground buffalo for meal four, have tuna for meal five, have whole milk with any meal you can. different sources and different absorption rates of the proteins throughout the day and you'll guarantee you'll have more then enough of optimal types of proteins.

of course if you only had black beans for meal 3 and that was your only protein source , I'd say you better have a whey isolate shake with it cause the black beans are not a complete source of protein, even though the label says 15g of protein, it can't be used for protein synthesis without the additional essential amino acids

[TestoSuper]

once your off cycle you will actually need to eat a bit more to maintain gains as best you can. your protein requirement will go up, because without AAS your body is no longer going to be as efficient at using it. your fat and vitamin d intake will need to go up, as your body will have to begin making hormones on its own and not rely on it coming from a needle.
however your carbohydrate intake can go slightly down, as your body will no longer be able to use that much glucose as it can while on cycle .

up your protein and fats while on PCT and keep your calories high and keep training hard and heavy (give your body a reason to hold onto the muscle)

ok ... I will keep at least 3 months of maintenance to "fix" as much as possible muscles, high calories and intense training ... after these 3/4 months I will begin cutting phase, Test p + Tren a when I will be in calories deficit, is it ok in your opinion?

[GearHeaded]

ok ... I will keep at least 3 months of maintenance to "fix" as much as possible muscles, high calories and intense training ... after these 3/4 months I will begin cutting phase, Test p + Tren a when I will be in calories deficit, is it ok in your opinion?

high calories and heavy training will help you solidify your gains .
When your on cycle doing higher rep volume training is just fine, as AAS use generally helps stimulate sarcoplasmic hypertrophy , but when you come off cycle I recommend switching over to heavier weight more intense style of training (4-7 rep range). forcing your body to move heavy weight at this time will force your body to want to have to keep and maintain its size (force your body to have to acclimate to the new gains)

granite we are all different , have various differing amounts of fiber types, but the above has worked for myself and lots of others.


as for cutting, personally I don't recommend cutting until you reach your desire goal weight and size which could take years (other then occassional 3-5 week mini cuts to improve insulin sensitivity, loose a little body fat, and ultimately to help keep growing).
if your about the size you want to be and now want to really shred up , then a 12 week cut and cycle with Tren is a great option . Imo, Tren is one of the best compounds to cut with (as well as Primo)

[TestoSuper]

high calories and heavy training will help you solidify your gains .
When your on cycle doing higher rep volume training is just fine, as AAS use generally helps stimulate sarcoplasmic hypertrophy , but when you come off cycle I recommend switching over to heavier weight more intense style of training (4-7 rep range). forcing your body to move heavy weight at this time will force your body to want to have to keep and maintain its size (force your body to have to acclimate to the new gains)

granite we are all different , have various differing amounts of fiber types, but the above has worked for myself and lots of others.


as for cutting, personally I don't recommend cutting until you reach your desire goal weight and size which could take years (other then occassional 3-5 week mini cuts to improve insulin sensitivity, loose a little body fat, and ultimately to help keep growing).
if your about the size you want to be and now want to really shred up , then a 12 week cut and cycle with Tren is a great option . Imo, Tren is one of the best compounds to cut with (as well as Primo)

honestly no, I have not reached yet the size I want ... so how should I set up? after this 3 months bulking cycle, 2 months of "maintenance", 1 month of "mini cut" (drug free?), and after this another 3 months bulking cycle? What do you suggest?

[GearHeaded]

honestly no, I have not reached yet the size I want ... so how should I set up? after this 3 months bulking cycle, 2 months of "maintenance", 1 month of "mini cut" (drug free?), and after this another 3 months bulking cycle? What do you suggest?

this is a little bit more difficult to set up for guys that don't blast and cruise or not on TRT . when on Trt you can easily do short term blasts of AAS without worrying about your hpta. however for you , you need to wait the length of time for whatever it takes for your body to fully recover . if thats 3 months then just take that time and be at maintenance or slightly above.

THEN when you go to do a mini cut this is the time to plan for your next cycle . I highly recommend enhanced guys use AAS anytime they go into a hypo-caloric diet or cut . we want to keep muscle loss at a minimum especially if growth is still the long term goal . so your mini cut needs to coincide with your next cycle.

so you start your next AAS cycle and for the fist 4 weeks of that cycle you do your mini cut . You'll reset your insulin sensitivity, your body will become more efficient at nutrient partitioning, and you'll lose some body fat. then right after this mini cut your body will be primed for growth , so you go right into a bulk mid way through the AAS cycle .

the first 4 weeks of it is the mini cut on AAS, the next 6 weeks is bulking while on AAS , then you continue bulking into PCT again just like you're doing now .

repeat this process several times per year and after some time you'll grow and have the size and muscle mass your looking for . once your at that stage , then you can do an actual 'show prep' or long 12 week cut and shred down and see what you've really built and developed over the years of sweat and effort .

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I disagree....
I think if one is to do a one month mini-cut they may lose at most 2-3lbs of muscle.
Open a normal diet, they will easily gain back most of that muscle.
I would recommend a minicut going into a cycle and then using steroids to grow.

I personally think that unless someone is getting ready for a show or a photo shoot or movie etc..., then steroids should be used for growth.
The risk of damaging your HPTA overweighs the benefits.

Now, if someone is on TRT, they still don't need a blast to cut. Their diet isn't going to affect their hormone levels. And 97% of TRT guys have higher than normal levels of test. (Someone who tests at 600-800 at their through is realistically has a supraphysiological level of test.)

But to each their own.

[TestoSuper]

this is a little bit more difficult to set up for guys that don't blast and cruise or not on TRT . when on Trt you can easily do short term blasts of AAS without worrying about your hpta. however for you , you need to wait the length of time for whatever it takes for your body to fully recover . if thats 3 months then just take that time and be at maintenance or slightly above.

THEN when you go to do a mini cut this is the time to plan for your next cycle . I highly recommend enhanced guys use AAS anytime they go into a hypo-caloric diet or cut . we want to keep muscle loss at a minimum especially if growth is still the long term goal . so your mini cut needs to coincide with your next cycle.

so you start your next AAS cycle and for the fist 4 weeks of that cycle you do your mini cut . You'll reset your insulin sensitivity, your body will become more efficient at nutrient partitioning, and you'll lose some body fat. then right after this mini cut your body will be primed for growth , so you go right into a bulk mid way through the AAS cycle .

the first 4 weeks of it is the mini cut on AAS, the next 6 weeks is bulking while on AAS , then you continue bulking into PCT again just like you're doing now .

repeat this process several times per year and after some time you'll grow and have the size and muscle mass your looking for . once your at that stage , then you can do an actual 'show prep' or long 12 week cut and shred down and see what you've really built and developed over the years of sweat and effort .

interesting what you say ... so in each cycle the first 4 weeks is for cutting and the other 6 weeks + PCT time for bulking ... could be effective and a faster way to grow constantly and clean .. I have to think about it seriously.

[GearHeaded]

I disagree....

I would recommend a minicut going into a cycle and then using steroids to grow.

I personally think that unless someone is getting ready for a show or a photo shoot or movie etc..., then steroids should be used for growth.

But to each their own.

my philosophy about the importance of using AAS for cutting/dieting comes from old school bodybuilding . When Arnold and Frank Zane were dieting down for the Mr Olympia show is when their drug use was at its highest , when they were in the off season is when their drug use went way down (or ceased all together). its still practiced today .

this is why there is a 100 pound stage weight difference from a natural pro bodybuilder and an enhanced pro bodybuilder . now both guys can bulk up and put on a good amount of size , but the enhanced guy is using Anabolics heavily during his cutting phases and he shreds down and stays huge and muscular, where as when the natural pro shreds down and cuts and diets for a show without anaboics he shrinks and looks skinny as an aids patient on stage .

the difference is in the 'cutting' phases. and its not just Arnold and old school guys that would do it this way . Most Pro's are using heavy amounts of drugs for their contest prep phases and not necessarily a ton of gear during the off season or growth phases (it doesn't take a lot to grow ,, it does take a lot to maintain a 260 pound muscular physique while in a calorie deficit and dieting hard).

however, I do understand that in other sports like powerlifting, strongman, or even American football that Anaboics are pushed and used heavily during phases when the athlete is trying to put on size and grow , and that when they are not trying to add size they do not run AAS or don't use it when dieting .
bodybuilding for the most part is just the opposite , when your dieting and cutting is the most important time to run gear .

but your right, to each their own. plenty of bodybuilders use massive amounts of gear in the off season too and not just during show prep . but guys like Lee Priest used very little AAS in the off season to grow, he used lots of food instead, then he would ramp up his Anabolic usage about 8 weeks out from a show when dieting.


just my thought

[GearHeaded]

interesting what you say ... so in each cycle the first 4 weeks is for cutting and the other 6 weeks + PCT time for bulking ... could be effective and a faster way to grow constantly and clean .. I have to think about it seriously.

see my last post . it explains that my idea is nothing new under the sun, its simply what a lot of bodybuilders have done for years . again I strongly recommend running gear while doing any kind of cut and that you can grow at other times, but cutting is the most important time to be on.

[TestoSuper]

see my last post . it explains that my idea is nothing new under the sun, its simply what a lot of bodybuilders have done for years . again I strongly recommend running gear while doing any kind of cut and that you can grow at other times, but cutting is the most important time to be on.

don't worry, I totally agree with you about the use of AAS during the cutting phase ... the first and only time I did cutting without AAS I lost
practically all the muscles taken during previous bulking phase and very little fat .... the worst experience I've ever had ... The use of AAs during cutting ensures consistent fat loss and simultaneous muscle maintenance.

[GearHeaded]

don't worry, I totally agree with you about the use of AAS during the cutting phase ... the first and only time I did cutting without AAS I lost
practically all the muscles taken during previous bulking phase and very little fat .... the worst experience I've ever had ... The use of AAs during cutting ensures consistent fat loss and simultaneous muscle maintenance.

well when we have the ability to use powerful compounds together like Tren , Clen , VAR, HGH, Insulin , and IGF, not only can we burn fat but we can build muscle at the same time . we have powerful tools at our disposal .
would be impossible for an intermediate natural lifter to burn fat and grow at the same time in a calorie deficit .