First cycle. Dbol and test e.

[Odin13]

Hi, looking for any advice , so i started my first cycle which is dbol 30mg daily for 5 weeks and test e 500mg a week for 12weeks, and started 2 weeks ago 5 December 2017. Ive been doing calisthenics and weightlifting for majority of 8 years, im 37, 183cm, now 96kg up from 89kg when started cycle, i eat roughly between 3500-4000 calories a day now up from around 2500 and average around 220gms protein a day. Im not using an AI atm as my bodybuilding mate said i most likely wont need them. I train 4days on 1 day off. 1. Chest. 2. Back. 3.Arms and shoulder . 4. Legs and abs. Day off then repeat. Doing 20-30 sets of mostly bodyweight and relatively light weight for chest and back (incline/decline pushups and 20kg dumbell flies for chest) , (alot of weighted pull ups and chin ups for back) , 14-18 sets of bis tris and shoulders using 10-20kg dumbells each workout as i have no gym in my area (i live on a farm).
I have nolva and clomid for pct.
I am really feeling the effects of dbol , feeling fuller and awesome mood. I had blood tests yesterday and got results back which was , test 40.6 nmol/l which is twice as high as normal and oestrogen was 315 nmol/l which is double the highest range. Is my oestrogen too high or is it ok? Will it go down after dbol ends? How long will test take to really kick in and is it similar to dbol feeling? Will i lose any gains after i come off dbol after the 5weeks? Am i overtraining in any way for bulking? Overall if i can get any tips along the way, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[GearHeaded]

with a test/dbol cycle you really should be running an AI. Dbol not only aromatizes a ton but it aromatizes into a pretty potent estrogen. sure having some elevated estrogen on a cycle like this to help you bulk up is good, but if it gets too high it will catch up with you and you'll end up with some pretty negative sides.

I'm not a fan of running Dbol at that dose for only 5 weeks . You'll get better results and better maintain your gains if you use the taper method with dbol.
example
week 1-4 40mg
week 5-7 30mg
week 8-10 20mg

when you run Dbol for only a few weeks you'll end up pissing the gains away (its all inter cellular water at this point). if your running longer term but lower the dose over time then you'll get some real growth.

your Test will really start to kick in and you'll feel it by week 5 . The test is going to give you a lot more androgen receptor activity, whereas the D-bol does not work on the androgen receptor at all (so with Test expect to feel a lot more aggressive and determined,, with D-bol its more a calm sense of well being, heck some guys use it as an anti-depressant)

[Jangles1]

with a test/dbol cycle you really should be running an AI. Dbol not only aromatizes a ton but it aromatizes into a pretty potent estrogen. sure having some elevated estrogen on a cycle like this to help you bulk up is good, but if it gets too high it will catch up with you and you'll end up with some pretty negative sides.

I'm not a fan of running Dbol at that dose for only 5 weeks . You'll get better results and better maintain your gains if you use the taper method with dbol.
example
week 1-4 40mg
week 5-7 30mg
week 8-10 20mg

when you run Dbol for only a few weeks you'll end up pissing the gains away (its all inter cellular water at this point). if your running longer term but lower the dose over time then you'll get some real growth.

your Test will really start to kick in and you'll feel it by week 5 . The test is going to give you a lot more androgen receptor activity, whereas the D-bol does not work on the androgen receptor at all (so with Test expect to feel a lot more aggressive and determined,, with D-bol its more a calm sense of well being, heck some guys use it as an anti-depressant)

Does the same apply for Anadrol Gear?

[GearHeaded]

Does the same apply for Anadrol Gear?

Anadrol and Dbol are both class 2 steroids and work apart from the androgen receptor. They both are fairly similar. Only Anadrol cannot aromatize (Dbol does) but it does convert to estrogen (its unique in that it does it apart from the aromatase enzyme). so with Anadrol an AI does not help.
because of this issue and because Anadrol is far more toxic then Dbol I never recommend anyone run Adrol longer then 4 weeks. which most guys wouldn't want to do anyways cause Adrol makes you feel like shit whereas Dbol makes you feel awesome.

[MuscleT1]

Thanks for the help, currently starting first cycle at the same time, but only taking 25mg of dbol and taking test e 500mg/w, just started taking Ai on week 3 after feeling bit off. 100 percent with it. Like the idea to wean the dbol down to week 10.

[Odin13]

Thanks very much for your advice mate i really appreciate it and my mate said something very similar with the dbol except from week 5 go down to 20mg daily for another 4 weeks , he said increase test on week 5-6 too, to 750 a week but from what ive read i think 500mg a week is plenty for first time, he tends to get carried away and forgets its my first time hahaha. Thanks again mate

[Jangles1]

Dbol and Drol have always been 2 orals i've never really understood. It seems the gains are for the most part short term with both compounds and are only really strength benefits. Of course, this is a total newbies outlook you know......

I guess for a lean bulk where you want solid clean gains, both products maybe not be suitable. If I was to do Dbol I would for sure use your tapering method for sure. But tbh, I dont think I would ever run something that didn't offer keepable gains (for the most part)


Here is an interesting post by a former pro body builder who recommends you do both at lower dosages for 8 weeks to minimise sides and get the 'synergistic' effects - http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...l-vs-dbol.html

[GearHeaded]

Thanks very much for your advice mate i really appreciate it and my mate said something very similar with the dbol except from week 5 go down to 20mg daily for another 4 weeks , he said increase test on week 5-6 too, to 750 a week but from what ive read i think 500mg a week is plenty for first time, he tends to get carried away and forgets its my first time hahaha. Thanks again mate

yeah just stick to 500mg , thats all you need to grow your first go around. I'll ramp my test dosages up over time on cycle, but I've been running AAS for 7 years straight and need to do that. you however on first cycle are going to get a ton out of just 500mg

[GearHeaded]

Dbol and Drol have always been 2 orals i've never really understood. It seems the gains are for the most part short term with both compounds and are only really strength benefits. Of course, this is a total newbies outlook you know......

I guess for a lean bulk where you want solid clean gains, both products maybe not be suitable. If I was to do Dbol I would for sure use your tapering method for sure. But tbh, I dont think I would ever run something that didn't offer keepable gains (for the most part)


Here is an interesting post by a former pro body builder who recommends you do both at lower dosages for 8 weeks to minimise sides and get the 'synergistic' effects - http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...l-vs-dbol.html

the gains from Dbol are very keepable. its just that most people don't run it properly and don't understand its mechanisms of action. guys blast it for 4-5 weeks and blow up and then get off and piss the gains away. Thats given Dbol a bad name of having 'unkeepable gains', as well as guys running D-bol only cycles (of course your going to lose those gains).

Dbol and Adrol are 'wet' bulkers . they elevate estrogen (which helps with growth) which also makes you hold water. but the main function is their ability to drive more glycogen and especially water into muscle cells (other AAS do this as well, but Dbol is very good at this). This is what gives you the full swole look while on the compound . this is easily lost when you come off though. what you need to do is take advantage of the growth that can happen by the driving of glycogen and water into muscle cells. Every time insulin is elevated and your driving blood glucose into muscle cells to be stored as muscle glycogen, amino acids are carried along for the ride (the building blocks of muscle) as well as more fluid, and if the drug is giving your body the ability to store much more water and glycogen then your giving the muscle cells more nutrients and ability to grow as well.

BUT this takes time. thats why I advocate the taper method . it gives your body more time to grow. not only that but it gives your body more time to acclimate to the new body weight. you body seeks homeostasis. if you suddenly add 15 pounds of weight your body will want to go back to the weight it was before , unless you give it time and force it to get acclimated to that new 15 pounds . Thats why Dbol needs to be ran longer and be part of cycle thats ran 10-12 weeks or so.

this is harder to do with Adrol as its much more toxic and will destroy your appetite. so you won't be able to eat and keep the gains. Adrol simply needs stacked with other compounds to help you keep its gains. I also prefer Adrol with shorter cycles .
e.g.,
Adrol 50-100mg for 4 weeks , Tren Ace 500mg 6 weeks, Test prop 500mg 6 weeks. then step back to a cruise dose of Test at 250mg . this is a good bulk blast and then you cruise to help maintain your gains. this is a much different approach then a longer 10-12 week cycle that will be followed by PCT . but Adrol works well with this type of cycle .

[Jangles1]

the gains from Dbol are very keepable. its just that most people don't run it properly and don't understand its mechanisms of action. guys blast it for 4-5 weeks and blow up and then get off and piss the gains away. Thats given Dbol a bad name of having 'unkeepable gains', as well as guys running D-bol only cycles (of course your going to lose those gains).

Dbol and Adrol are 'wet' bulkers . they elevate estrogen (which helps with growth) which also makes you hold water. but the main function is their ability to drive more glycogen and especially water into muscle cells (other AAS do this as well, but Dbol is very good at this). This is what gives you the full swole look while on the compound . this is easily lost when you come off though. what you need to do is take advantage of the growth that can happen by the driving of glycogen and water into muscle cells. Every time insulin is elevated and your driving blood glucose into muscle cells to be stored as muscle glycogen, amino acids are carried along for the ride (the building blocks of muscle) as well as more fluid, and if the drug is giving your body the ability to store much more water and glycogen then your giving the muscle cells more nutrients and ability to grow as well.

BUT this takes time. thats why I advocate the taper method . it gives your body more time to grow. not only that but it gives your body more time to acclimate to the new body weight. you body seeks homeostasis. if you suddenly add 15 pounds of weight your body will want to go back to the weight it was before , unless you give it time and force it to get acclimated to that new 15 pounds . Thats why Dbol needs to be ran longer and be part of cycle thats ran 10-12 weeks or so.

this is harder to do with Adrol as its much more toxic and will destroy your appetite. so you won't be able to eat and keep the gains. Adrol simply needs stacked with other compounds to help you keep its gains. I also prefer Adrol with shorter cycles .
e.g.,
Adrol 50-100mg for 4 weeks , Tren Ace 500mg 6 weeks, Test prop 500mg 6 weeks. then step back to a cruise dose of Test at 250mg . this is a good bulk blast and then you cruise to help maintain your gains. this is a much different approach then a longer 10-12 week cycle that will be followed by PCT . but Adrol works well with this type of cycle .

As always, absolutely amazing, informative read.

[Clove1234]

This answered a lot of my questions on the two orals.