Deca and blood vessel damage

**sumpm1** · 12-22-2017, 03:02 PM

There were some reports last year of deca being "11 times worse than test on the blood vessels," I believe it was vessel hardening they were referring to.

So far I haven't seen anything to confirm or back this one result up, and I haven't heard much discussion on this...

But if it is the case that deca is much worse on blood vessels, then it would seem that the age old "eq vs deca debate" is much easier to solve. Why deal with prolactin sides and need caber or prami AND deal with life shortening effects on blood vessels? The worst we know about EQ is that your RBC will rise and require blood donations.

And if it turns out that deca does have this nasty effect on vessels, then I'd expect all the nandros to be researched for the same thing.

So do any of you have any info regarding deca and blood vessels? Real info, not just that "you took deca or Arnold took deca and you both are fine..."

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A couple of sources, many more can be found with a google search:

Please don't post links to other forums. They will be deleted.

**David LoPan** · 12-22-2017, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by sumpm1

There were some reports last year of deca being "11 times worse than test on the blood vessels," I believe it was vessel hardening they were referring to.

So far I haven't seen anything to confirm or back this one result up, and I haven't heard much discussion on this...

But if it is the case that deca is much worse on blood vessels, then it would seem that the age old "eq vs deca debate" is much easier to solve. Why deal with prolactin sides and need caber or prami AND deal with life shortening effects on blood vessels? The worst we know about EQ is that your RBC will rise and require blood donations.

And if it turns out that deca does have this nasty effect on vessels, then I'd expect all the nandros to be researched for the same thing.

So do any of you have any info regarding deca and blood vessels? Real info, not just that "you took deca or Arnold took deca and you both are fine..."

----

A couple of sources, many more can be found with a google search:

Those are not peer-reviewed articles, it is information taken fomr a stude on the Detrimental effects of anabolic steroids on human endothelial cells. It states ". As a whole, this study demonstrates that AAS might alter endothelial homeostasis, predisposing to the early endothelial cell activation that is responsible for vascular complications observed frequently in AAS users."

**sumpm1** · 12-22-2017, 04:36 PM

It may be to early to be able to get peer reviewed results. And since aas is illegal in most places, studies are pretty rare. Anyways, I am seriously interested if this result is legit. I think it has serious relevance for the average aas user.

**David LoPan** · 12-22-2017, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by sumpm1

It may be to early to be able to get peer reviewed results. And since aas is illegal in most places, studies are pretty rare. Anyways, I am seriously interested if this result is legit. I think it has serious relevance for the average aas user.

That study was done in 2007. AAS are not illegal if prescribed by a doctor. Cholesterol is the main problems in atherosclerosis progression. That is why supplements are taken and bloodwork is suggested be anyone here on this site worth their salt.

**GearHeaded** · 12-22-2017, 04:55 PM

"deca vs eq" . I'm not exactly sure where this came from or why theres a debate . Deca is way better and anyone that has run the two of these compounds a fair amount times knows this so theres no debate.

to put it in perspective , I will blast 500mg of Deca, however with EQ I generally run that year round at 500mg as part of my TRT, if I do blast the EQ then it goes up to 1000 or it just becomes a filler compound so I can run less test (eg., if I want a 1 gram base but don't want to run 1 gram of test, I'll add 750mg of EQ to 250mg test and that becomes my 'base' , then I build my cycle around that base). I would never do this with Deca as its much more powerful and has many more negative sides for me.

EQ does not really promote more RBC then any other steroid . Most all of them do this to a certain degree, and Deca certainly does as well. EQ is not near as harsh as Deca (very mild sides) but its not near as good at putting on quality size either.

both of them will promote collagen synthesis and help your joints over time. Deca will help promote more synovial fluid in the joints though.
Deca is a powerful nandrolone 19nor-test
EQ is really nothing more then a non estrogenic testosterone (thats why I run it to replace high doses of Test)

as for the blood vessel damage . you could run bpc-157 with deca cycles as a preventative measure. perhaps a pd5 inhibitor as well

**David LoPan** · 12-22-2017, 06:51 PM

Not to start any rumors but Deca dick = blood vessel damage

**sumpm1** · 12-24-2017, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by David LoPan

That study was done in 2007.

Hmm. I had no idea it was that old. I haven't seen any followup or much discussion on this in the community. I'd still like to know if there is anything to this.

As for the "deca vs eq" debate... I think it comes from people wanting to step up to the next compounds after their initial cycles; whether to add deca or to add eq; not really comparing them as if they are similar.

I've done 2 cycles of test and am always researching what I would like to try next. And one of my main sticking points with deca was the prolactin discussion. Some say deca has no prolactin relation and that prolactin is resulting from high estrogen, most say deca does affect prolactin and that prami or caber is needed to control prolactin. So I always had this confusion about deca. But deca looks so attractive for a bulking cycle. And then when I read this, it makes deca look even worse.

So I just posted this to see if anyone here perhaps had further info regarding this.

**GearHeaded** · 12-24-2017, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by sumpm1

As for the "deca vs eq" debate... I think it comes from people wanting to step up to the next compounds after their initial cycles; whether to add deca or to add eq; not really comparing them as if they are similar.

I've done 2 cycles of test and am always researching what I would like to try next. And one of my main sticking points with deca was the prolactin discussion. Some say deca has no prolactin relation and that prolactin is resulting from high estrogen, most say deca does affect prolactin and that prami or caber is needed to control prolactin

19-nor anabolic steroids (nandrolones) have a binding affinity for the Progesterone receptors. So they can exhibit estrogen like side effects apart from having elevated estrogen.

and yes they can elevate Prolactin as well (lots of blood tests to confirm this) and that is what causes 'deca dick'. if your sensitive to progestins or prolactin then you would need to run a dopamine agonist like caber or prami.
But not everyone is sensitive to this , Personally I can run a 1000mg of nandrolones with no issues or deca dick.

Deca is a great compound for putting on some quality size. I prefer NPP over Deca now though (will run both together as well, front loading deca with NPP)

**cousinmuscles** · 12-25-2017, 12:54 PM

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26335603

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26686897

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20462507

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17906098

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17267145

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8609832

Can't say I have read of any AAS that didn't contribute to cardiovascular issues. Makes sense to use short esters, stay off for long periods, moderate doses, make use of excellent training and nutrition, and at least modulate the sides.

GH nice post on the BPC. Before my source went out I stacked up on BPC.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17657443

Only problem is I get pretty bad swelling in the ankles and in some other joints from it, never know if it's a regular bpc side or bunk salt in a vial LOL!

No harm in using some healing stuff...

**Obs** · 12-26-2017, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by sumpm1

There were some reports last year of deca being "11 times worse than test on the blood vessels," I believe it was vessel hardening they were referring to.

So far I haven't seen anything to confirm or back this one result up, and I haven't heard much discussion on this...

But if it is the case that deca is much worse on blood vessels, then it would seem that the age old "eq vs deca debate" is much easier to solve. Why deal with prolactin sides and need caber or prami AND deal with life shortening effects on blood vessels? The worst we know about EQ is that your RBC will rise and require blood donations.

And if it turns out that deca does have this nasty effect on vessels, then I'd expect all the nandros to be researched for the same thing.

So do any of you have any info regarding deca and blood vessels? Real info, not just that "you took deca or Arnold took deca and you both are fine..."

----

A couple of sources, many more can be found with a google search:

Please don't post links to other forums. They will be deleted.

DEAR GOD
DECA AND EQUIPOISE ARE NOT CAPARABLE IN ANY WAY

Wtf are they telling kids these days?

Read this:
For decades, it has been assumed that Equipoise was very similar to Deca Durabolin (Nandrolone Decanoate). This assumption was in part based on comments the late Dan Duchaine made about the steroid . However, the two compounds are not similar in any way; in fact, Duchaine would recant the statement, but the initial statement has been enough to keep the rumor alive. If Equipoise shares anything in common with another anabolic steroidal hormone, it would be testosterone , but EQ as it’s commonly known is unique in its own right. An important note regarding the differences in these two steroidal hormones; Nandrolone carries a strong progestin nature, while Boldenone carries no progestin characteristics.

Are these people comparing them still operating off this rumor!?

I am sorry but this is my pet peeve!!!!!!!
THEY DO NOT BELONG IN THE SAME SENTENCE
I WOULDNT WASTE A SYRINGE ON EQ WHEN I COULD FILL IT WITH DECA

**GearHeaded** · 12-26-2017, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke

DEAR GOD
DECA AND EQUIPOISE ARE NOT CAPARABLE IN ANY WAY

Wtf are they telling kids these days?

Read this:
For decades, it has been assumed that Equipoise was very similar to Deca Durabolin (Nandrolone Decanoate). This assumption was in part based on comments the late Dan Duchaine made about the steroid . However, the two compounds are not similar in any way; in fact, Duchaine would recant the statement, but the initial statement has been enough to keep the rumor alive. If Equipoise shares anything in common with another anabolic steroidal hormone, it would be testosterone, but EQ as it’s commonly known is unique in its own right. An important note regarding the differences in these two steroidal hormones; Nandrolone carries a strong progestin nature, while Boldenone carries no progestin characteristics.

Are these people comparing them still operating off this rumor!?

I am sorry but this is my pet peeve!!!!!!!
THEY DO NOT BELONG IN THE SAME SENTENCE
I WOULDNT WASTE A SYRINGE ON EQ WHEN I COULD FILL IT WITH DECA

this is spot on.
EQ and deca are on complete opposite spectrums.

When I blast I usually like a 1000mg base of test, then I add my other compounds around that. however when I blast a low estrogen cycle then I use EQ as my 'clean test' and add 750mg of EQ to 250mg of test (my trt) and that gives me a 1000mg test base that is less estrogenic.

EQ is really just a clean low estrogen test, at the most, with some slight added joint benefits.