Back at it need some advice

Hey everyone,

So I got all my gear ready to roll and am doing an easy 10 week cycle of test e and tbol ...then right into cut with low dose of test e, mast, stanz, and t3 to cut 6-8 weeks. Plenty of clomid and nolva on hand for pct. Also taking arimidex and hcg until pct.

Question is do you think that is too many different compounds to use for the cut? I'm nervous about the t3. I have taken Winnie before and had little to no issues with joints.

Also what dosage and how long would you suggest for the pct after this.

This will be my longest cycle as my last few have been just 10 weeks then off for about 6 months.

35 yrs old 225lbs 18-20% bf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThatGuy82

Hey everyone,

So I got all my gear ready to roll and am doing an easy 10 week cycle of test e and tbol ...then right into cut with low dose of test e, mast, stanz, and t3 to cut 6-8 weeks. Plenty of clomid and nolva on hand for pct. Also taking arimidex and hcg until pct.

Question is do you think that is too many different compounds to use for the cut? I'm nervous about the t3. I have taken Winnie before and had little to no issues with joints.

Also what dosage and how long would you suggest for the pct after this.

This will be my longest cycle as my last few have been just 10 weeks then off for about 6 months.

35 yrs old 225lbs 18-20% bf

---

What is your cycle history? It is difficult to say what you should take if we do not know what you have used in the past.
IMO you should be below 15% bf before cycling.
I also would not recommend doing a bulk and then go immediately to a cut. I would recommend that you let your body reach an equilibrium before cutting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by charger69

What is your cycle history? It is difficult to say what you should take if we do not know what you have used in the past.
IMO you should be below 15% bf before cycling.
I also would not recommend doing a bulk and then go immediately to a cut. I would recommend that you let your body reach an equilibrium before cutting.

---

First couple cycles were test only for 8 weeks each. Then sust, dbol and tren 10 weeks. Then sust, eq, and proviron 10 weeks. Then a cut cycle with test, Winnie, and mast for 7 weeks. All over the span of about 5 years now and have never had any really bad side effects except gyno and cystic acne when I did the tren cycle.

I was wondering that about jumping right into a cut phase... How long should I cruise for before starting it would you suggest?

Thanks for the reply!

As for the bf% I understand that as well, but it is just excess fat from the holidays lol. I am confident I can easily burn that off during this cycle in about a month. And get down to 12-15% before I cut. I know they say you should be around 10% before using t3 but I have faith in my regimen and diet.

your at 20% body fat and you want to bulk ? then after that you want to cut. sounds to me like you have two issues your dealing with in your mind, your not near as muscular as you'd like to be , and your much fatter then you'd like to be.

sounds like you need to Re-comp. I'd try and limit your calories for a bit, maybe 4 weeks, and then after that go right into an AAS cycle and diet and training plan focused on recomposition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThatGuy82

I know they say you should be around 10% before using t3

---

who says that ?
T3 is just active thyroid hormone. heck there are obese middle aged women taking T3. your current body fat percentage wither high or low will in no way effect how this drug/hormone works.
if your going to cut while using AAS, then its worth running Imo, no matter what body fat you start at

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

your at 20% body fat and you want to bulk ? then after that you want to cut. sounds to me like you have two issues your dealing with in your mind, your not near as muscular as you'd like to be , and your much fatter then you'd like to be.

sounds like you need to Re-comp. I'd try and limit your calories for a bit, maybe 4 weeks, and then after that go right into an AAS cycle and diet and training plan focused on recomposition.

---

Not really trying to bulk with the test and tbol, just gain more strength and a little more muscle on the leaner side with back to property dieting. I am only a week into it right now and have pinned 3 times with the test and taking tbol at 30mg a day. Test is 500ml a week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

who says that ?
T3 is just active thyroid hormone. heck there are obese middle aged women taking T3. your current body fat percentage wither high or low will in no way effect how this drug/hormone works.
if your going to cut while using AAS, then its worth running Imo, no matter what body fat you start at

---

My source recommended that and I've read it on a couple other threads talking about t3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

your current body fat percentage wither high or low will in no way effect how this drug/hormone works.
if your going to cut while using AAS, then its worth running Imo, no matter what body fat you start at

---

That's what I was thinking though. Like why would it matter about body fat % when the main purpose of the drug is used to replicate increased thyroid production and burn the fat...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThatGuy82

My source recommended that and I've read it on a couple other threads talking about t3.

---

you sure they were not referencing Clen and not T3 . I generally recommend Clen be used when you've already got rid of the easy body fat and use it when you need to get to the stubborn body fat. things like an ECA stack or T3 can be ran by fat fucks no prob and it will work, but when you get to lower digits then you need Clen

personally I'd recommend doing a re-comp cycle . your going to use your body fat as essentially stored calories, and those stored calories are going to help you build muscle while on a cyclical (around maintenance) diet. so you'll be giving up fat stores to aide in building muscle, and so in one way its like bulking, but in another way its like cutting cause your burning body fat to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

you sure they were not referencing Clen and not T3 . I generally recommend Clen be used when you've already got rid of the easy body fat and use it when you need to get to the stubborn body fat. things like an ECA stack or T3 can be ran by fat fucks no prob and it will work, but when you get to lower digits then you need Clen

---

Yeah they were definitely talking about t3 which is why I was confused.

Thank you and I appreciate that advice!

So now back to my cycle info... What would you suggest in taking the gear I have right now? Should I remap it and double the test and just include everything right now as a massive cutting cycle? Or should I continue taking the test e and tbol then cruise for a bit and cut? If the latter how long do you think I should cruise for before starting the cut?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

personally I'd recommend doing a re-comp cycle . your going to use your body fat as essentially stored calories, and those stored calories are going to help you build muscle while on a cyclical (around maintenance) diet. so you'll be giving up fat stores to aide in building muscle, and so in one way its like bulking, but in another way its like cutting cause your burning body fat to do it.

---

Roger that. Thats what I was going for was to slowly burn fat back down to where I previously was while building some muscle and strength before I cut. How long should I cruise for before cutting with the gear mentioned above and what would be best to cruise with and at what dose? Could i cruise with the tbol? I have a dickload of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThatGuy82

Roger that. Thats what I was going for was to slowly burn fat back down to where I previously was while building some muscle and strength before I cut. How long should I cruise for before cutting with the gear mentioned above and what would be best to cruise with and at what dose? Could i cruise with the tbol? I have a dickload of it.

---

I'm confused as to why you want to 'cruise' (nothing against cruising , I've been cruising and blasting for years),, I just thought you were a guy that did PCT??

if your a PCT guy, then plan a well put together Re-comp cycle . if your going to be on TRT and blast and cruise, then yeah Tbol is fine, I run it quite often with my TRT.

if you want to just get started right away and do an actual Recomp cycle .. then I recommend something like this.

Test 600 mg weeks 1-5
T-bol 50 mg week 1-8
NPP 350mg week 1-5
masteron 600mg week 1-10
Test 300 mg week 6-10
Tren ace 350 mg week 6-10
Winny 50 mg/day week 9-10

that looks like a lot on the surface , but when you see how its broke down and compounds interchanged its not a lot. you'll go from wet to dry (simulating a bulk to a cut), but really its a recomp.

FYI- your diet protocol is probably much more important then your AAS protocol with a recomp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I'm confused as to why you want to 'cruise' (nothing against cruising , I've been cruising and blasting for years),, I just thought you were a guy that did PCT??

if your a PCT guy, then plan a well put together Re-comp cycle . if your going to be on TRT and blast and cruise, then yeah Tbol is fine, I run it quite often with my TRT.

if you want to just get started right away and do an actual Recomp cycle .. then I recommend something like this.

Test 600 mg weeks 1-5
T-bol 50 mg week 1-8
NPP 350mg week 1-5
masteron 600mg week 1-10
Test 300 mg week 6-10
Tren ace 350 mg week 6-10
Winny 50 mg/day week 9-10

that looks like a lot on the surface , but when you see how its broke down and compounds interchanged its not a lot. you'll go from wet to dry (simulating a bulk to a cut), but really its a recomp.

FYI- your diet protocol is probably much more important then your AAS protocol with a recomp

---

without starting a fight....

I highly doubt the OP is advanced enough that he needs 1.9 grams of gear in is first 5 weeks to put on some weight.
He's 6' 4" and 225lbs with 19% bodyfat.
That's not an advanced lifter in my book.
Why not test 600mg and NPP 400mg??
Does he really need t-bol and masteron too??

Also you make no mention of an AI, or a DA, or hCG.
Sure anyone can gain on 2 grams of gear but at what cost?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

Also you make no mention of an AI, or a DA, or hCG.

---

no need to mention those things to guys with AAS use experience . thats all completely personal dependent and always changing.. there is nothing 'fixed' about those compounds unless directing total noobs as a starting point.

I have cycles I run with no AI at all
I have cycles I run with an AI plus Letro on top of it
I have cycles I run with a moderate amount of AI and a low dose SERM
I have cycles I run with an AI plus Prami
I have cycles I run with no AI but still have Prami on hand
etc etc..

for experienced users there is not a cookie cutter AI, DA, or HCG protocol . the 'copy and paste' PCT and AI protocols that are common on forums are for complete noobs as a starting point.
I just figured the OP with several cycles under his belt from test to tren would have his own ancillary protocols dialed in for himself .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

I highly doubt the OP is advanced enough that he needs 1.9 grams of gear in is first 5 weeks to put on some weight.

---

I take a different approach then you do brother .. just the opposite . if he was a highly advanced and genetic elite like Lee Priest, then he can put on some weight with only 500mg of gear . but my guess is he is not that good at metabolizing and putting to use gear because of his genetics , so he probably needs a good solid 2 grams to put on some size.
you seem to think that advanced guys need more gear, when a lot of times its just the opposite and its middle of the road guys that need more help from the gear and thus dosages are a bit higher .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I just figured the OP with several cycles under his belt from test to tren would have his own ancillary protocols dialed in for himself .

---

Well if you read his posts you would realize that he got gyno from tren so he obviously doesn't have everything dialed in.

I realize you are a very advanced user but I think you have trouble remembering what it is like being a less advanced user.
Not everybody is like you and needs to run 2 grams of gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

Well if you read his posts you would realize that he got gyno from tren so he obviously doesn't have everything dialed in.

I realize you are a very advanced user but I think you have trouble remembering what it is like being a less advanced user.
Not everybody is like you and needs to run 2 grams of gear.

---

good point .. my bad, sometimes I spout off protocols off the cuff like I'm talking to my inner circle and not newer AAS users on a public forum

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I'm confused as to why you want to 'cruise' (nothing against cruising , I've been cruising and blasting for years),, I just thought you were a guy that did PCT??

if your a PCT guy, then plan a well put together Re-comp cycle . if your going to be on TRT and blast and cruise, then yeah Tbol is fine, I run it quite often with my TRT.

if you want to just get started right away and do an actual Recomp cycle .. then I recommend something like this.

Test 600 mg weeks 1-5
T-bol 50 mg week 1-8
NPP 350mg week 1-5
masteron 600mg week 1-10
Test 300 mg week 6-10
Tren ace 350 mg week 6-10
Winny 50 mg/day week 9-10

that looks like a lot on the surface , but when you see how its broke down and compounds interchanged its not a lot. you'll go from wet to dry (simulating a bulk to a cut), but really its a recomp.

FYI- your diet protocol is probably much more important then your AAS protocol with a recomp

---

yeah I was a bit confused about the whole blasting cruising deal. I will be cycling then pct afterwards so I'm going to most likely take your advice with the re comp but I'm going to use the aforementioned gear I have. No tren or npp available at this time.

Thanks for all your help and knowledge my man!

I have test e, tbol, mast, Winnie, t3, armidex, hcg, and then clomid and nolva for pct.

Can you recommend a proper cycle with all that for 10weeks? I already know what I need to take with the ai and hcg during, and also the pct from my prior cycles. Just new to the t3 and thought I would run the test and tbol then add in the mast, t3, and winnie to lean out even more at the end.

I will provide my $.02.
Did you do bloodwork? How is your cholesteral and blood pressure? These will go in the wrong direction while cycling.
I also do not recommend cycling above 15% bf for the estrogen and the reasons above.
If you are going to cycle, then I would also include NAC.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by charger69

I will provide my $.02.
Did you do bloodwork? How is your cholesteral and blood pressure? These will go in the wrong direction while cycling.
I also do not recommend cycling above 15% bf for the estrogen and the reasons above.
If you are going to cycle, then I would also include NAC.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

---

Yes blood work was done about a month ago at the VA and all levels have returned to the "normal" range. Chol and bp is all on point as well as diet once again. Doc says im healthy as an ox. My last cycle was over the summer and then the holidays I fell off my diet. But I'm back and ready now. I will be getting blood work done again mid cycle in March to see where I'm at with the AI and SERM.

So some of you don't suggest me cycling at all because I'm 3-4% over the recommended body fat? I appreciate the concern however, I've already started the test e and tbol so not cycling is out of the question. I just wanted to know some recommendations on taking everything I have on hand especially with the t3 in the mix since I've never used before. I also have NAC supplement for liver support.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThatGuy82

I have test e, tbol, mast, Winnie, t3, armidex, hcg, and then clomid and nolva for pct.

Can you recommend a proper cycle with all that for 10weeks? I already know what I need to take with the ai and hcg during, and also the pct from my prior cycles. Just new to the t3 and thought I would run the test and tbol then add in the mast, t3, and winnie to lean out even more at the end.

---

well using what you have on hand you could recomp with something like this

Test 500mg week 1-10
Masteron 600mg week 1-10
Tbol 50mg day week 1-8
Winny 50mg day week 9-10
T3 50mcg day week 1-10

will need very little AI with this stack.

would run NAC and TUDCA with this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

well using what you have on hand you could recomp with something like this

Test 500mg week 1-10
Masteron 600mg week 1-10
Tbol 50mg day week 1-8
Winny 50mg day week 9-10
T3 50mcg day week 1-10

will need very little AI with this stack.

would run NAC and TUDCA with this

---

Thank you! I was thinking something similar but keeping the t3 at only 6-8 weeks of total use because I'm worried about the side effects on the thyroid. And upping the winny to week 6-10. Is there a reason you suggest only taking Winny for 1 week at the end? I'm thinking because of joint pain?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThatGuy82

Thank you! I was thinking something similar but keeping the t3 at only 6-8 weeks of total use because I'm worried about the side effects on the thyroid. And upping the winny to week 6-10. Is there a reason you suggest only taking Winny for 1 week at the end? I'm thinking because of joint pain?

---

the thyroid is very stout, once you come off T3 it will bounce right back.. people have ran it for several years straight, came off and were just fine. totally different then the HPTA.

Heres why I only recommend Winny the last two weeks . its because your already running Masteron the duration of the whole cycle along with T-bol , and both of those work in a similar fashion as does Winny , they all have an affinity to SHBG and will help bind that up. Both Mast and winny are DHTs as well. So really you wouldn't need to run Winny all that long and have it play havoc on your cholesterol and lipid profile as well as your liver.
the last 2 weeks it will just help you dry out a bit more , and the last two weeks is when you'll be the leanest during this cycle.
the mast and Tbol will de a majority of the work while being much less harsh on your body then winny , the winny is just a finisher.

if you were NOT running mast and Tbol , then I'd have Winny in there for a much longer duration (as your one and only oral)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

the thyroid is very stout, once you come off T3 it will bounce right back.. people have ran it for several years straight, came off and were just fine. totally different then the HPTA.

Heres why I only recommend Winny the last two weeks . its because your already running Masteron the duration of the whole cycle along with T-bol , and both of those work in a similar fashion as does Winny , they all have an affinity to SHBG and will help bind that up. Both Mast and winny are DHTs as well. So really you wouldn't need to run Winny all that long and have it play havoc on your cholesterol and lipid profile as well as your liver.
the last 2 weeks it will just help you dry out a bit more , and the last two weeks is when you'll be the leanest during this cycle.
the mast and Tbol will de a majority of the work while being much less harsh on your body then winny , the winny is just a finisher.

if you were NOT running mast and Tbol , then I'd have Winny in there for a much longer duration (as your one and only oral)

---

Excellent info! It all makes perfect sense now and I appreciate your help man! Probably just saved me a trip to the ER in the future. This is why i love these forums. You guys rock!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThatGuy82

Excellent info! It all makes perfect sense now and I appreciate your help man! Probably just saved me a trip to the ER in the future. This is why i love these forums. You guys rock!!!

---

Just so you know.... GH is not a real person. He is a supercomputer that knows just about everything about anything. This computer was specially programmed to give the impression that it is a real person and has feelings. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by charger69

Just so you know.... GH is not a real person. He is a supercomputer that knows just about everything about anything. This computer was specially programmed to give the impression that it is a real person and has feelings. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

hahaha man! Technology these days ...as long as "he" wasn't developed and coded by big brother, I'm cool with that.

:haha:

Great discussion guys!