How long will it take to regain 20-25 pounds of lean mass? Anybody know?

So I have been back at the gym for a little while now, dropped heaps of fat but I am stuck sitting on 193 pounds of lean mass per the Bodpod readings. This is around 25 pounds lower than my last check-in years and years ago when I was real committed to the lifestyle.

I am on 200mg of test cyp per week for my TRT and my diet is very strict, albeit lower calories right now. What I am wondering is how long you guys think it would take to gain that 25 pounds of lean mass I lost if I upped my cals/protein intake bit by bit until the scale started climbing instead of dropping.

Considering either doing it natty or with a 100mg/wk test and 300mg/wk tren e cycle.

Both thoughts have their own pros and cons, I just kinda want to see what other guys think my timeline is looking like with either option. I would ideally like to look how I used to in ~12-15 months, which is certainly doable since I am on TRT.

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Originally Posted by Shadow530i

So I have been back at the gym for a little while now, dropped heaps of fat but I am stuck sitting on 193 pounds of lean mass per the Bodpod readings. This is around 25 pounds lower than my last check-in years and years ago when I was real committed to the lifestyle.

I am on 200mg of test cyp per week for my TRT and my diet is very strict, albeit lower calories right now. What I am wondering is how long you guys think it would take to gain that 25 pounds of lean mass I lost if I upped my cals/protein intake bit by bit until the scale started climbing instead of dropping.

Considering either doing it natty or with a 100mg/wk test and 300mg/wk tren e cycle.

Both thoughts have their own pros and cons, I just kinda want to see what other guys think my timeline is looking like with either option. I would ideally like to look how I used to in ~12-15 months, which is certainly doable since I am on TRT.

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I was going to say, how long is a piece of string but you answered your own Q, in bold is what you have to do. How long it will take ? Who knows.

I get what you’re saying, was mostly just looking for info from people who have experienced similar things.

Any info at all would be helpful.

It's gonna be hard for anyone to answer your question, cause everyone is different. It may be possible for you to achieve that in 12-15 months, it may not.

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Originally Posted by Shadow530i

So I have been back at the gym for a little while now, dropped heaps of fat but I am stuck sitting on 193 pounds of lean mass per the Bodpod readings. This is around 25 pounds lower than my last check-in years and years ago when I was real committed to the lifestyle.

I am on 200mg of test cyp per week for my TRT and my diet is very strict, albeit lower calories right now. What I am wondering is how long you guys think it would take to gain that 25 pounds of lean mass I lost if I upped my cals/protein intake bit by bit until the scale started climbing instead of dropping.

Considering either doing it natty or with a 100mg/wk test and 300mg/wk tren e cycle.

Both thoughts have their own pros and cons, I just kinda want to see what other guys think my timeline is looking like with either option. I would ideally like to look how I used to in ~12-15 months, which is certainly doable since I am on TRT.

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That cycle is more then likely not going to help you put 25 pounds of mass on, in fact some guys that run similar cycles end up losing weight. Unless you stack Tren with a heavy wet bulker and/or high dosages of test (1000mg) you generally won't grow from it because its very calorie demanding and really stimulates your CNS, however in the presence of high estrogen, water retention, and calories it will help you grow.

having said that, I don't recommend you run tren at all unless you have quite a few cycles under your belt that included nandrolone like Deca.
Actually running TRT dose of Test with DECA long term at moderate dosages, 400-500, would probably be the best option to make slow steady gains and get you weight back .

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Originally Posted by Shadow530i

So I have been back at the gym for a little while now, dropped heaps of fat but I am stuck sitting on 193 pounds of lean mass per the Bodpod readings. This is around 25 pounds lower than my last check-in years and years ago when I was real committed to the lifestyle.

I am on 200mg of test cyp per week for my TRT and my diet is very strict, albeit lower calories right now. What I am wondering is how long you guys think it would take to gain that 25 pounds of lean mass I lost if I upped my cals/protein intake bit by bit until the scale started climbing instead of dropping.

Considering either doing it natty or with a 100mg/wk test and 300mg/wk tren e cycle.

Both thoughts have their own pros and cons, I just kinda want to see what other guys think my timeline is looking like with either option. I would ideally like to look how I used to in ~12-15 months, which is certainly doable since I am on TRT.

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You're 24 and you're on TRT and it's been years since you've been committed to the lifestyle? Gaining muscles is hard. Gaining muscles and keeping it after PCT is even harder. If guys can hang onto 50% of their cycle gains, I'd say they were doing good. That means that in order to keep 25 lbs of lean muscle mass, you'd have to gain about 50 lbs of lean muscle. You're not going to do that in 12 months. Unless you're a genetic freak. I think gaining 25 lbs of lean muscle and keeping it permanently is going to take you several years.

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Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

You're 24 and you're on TRT and it's been years since you've been committed to the lifestyle? Gaining muscles is hard. Gaining muscles and keeping it after PCT is even harder. If guys can hang onto 50% of their cycle gains, I'd say they were doing good. That means that in order to keep 25 lbs of lean muscle mass, you'd have to gain about 50 lbs of lean muscle. You're not going to do that in 12 months. Unless you're a genetic freak. I think gaining 25 lbs of lean muscle and keeping it permanently is going to take you several years.

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Uhhh....not sure where you got 24 from (maybe when I started TRT, but that was 6 years ago, I’m nearly 30 now)

Also, I think 200mg of test a week for TRT should help me keep more gains than the average user who has to go through PCT, right? I mean I definitely agree I’d lose some gains, hopefully it won’t be half. Maybe I’ll have to get some BODPOD tests ran for before, after, and 8 weeks after just so I can report back with real numbers.

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

That cycle is more then likely not going to help you put 25 pounds of mass on, in fact some guys that run similar cycles end up losing weight. Unless you stack Tren with a heavy wet bulker and/or high dosages of test (1000mg) you generally won't grow from it because its very calorie demanding and really stimulates your CNS, however in the presence of high estrogen, water retention, and calories it will help you grow.

having said that, I don't recommend you run tren at all unless you have quite a few cycles under your belt that included nandrolone like Deca.
Actually running TRT dose of Test with DECA long term at moderate dosages, 400-500, would probably be the best option to make slow steady gains and get you weight back .

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I’ve ran 2 cycles with tren in it (and some without tren). I don’t experience bad sides with tren and I’ve always thought that it was the best for lean mass. As far as food goes, I’ve put down over 12,000 calories on refeed days and used to eat ~5,500 daily of chicken and brown rice. Right now though I’m cutting still in preparation for my cycle and dropping heaps of weight. I eat around 10,000 calories on refeed days (every Sunday) but I am at sub 2,000 Cals a day 6x a week.

I imagine once I’m finished leaning out and start my cycle my bodyfat percentage should be around 13-15%. I’ve never taken deca or anything, just test/tren/mast/dbol and supporting sups (not all at once).

To be honest I don’t know a ton about other gear, I’ve just always focused on tren because I thought it was the most efficient, regardless of what your goals were.

I’d like to gain back what I lost in roughly a years time, and I don’t mind blasting a low to medium dosage of gear for up to 6 months to do it. I guess I just want advice on what would be the most efficient stuff to use lol.

Thanks for all the help so far.

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Originally Posted by Shadow530i

Uhhh....not sure where you got 24 from (maybe when I started TRT, but that was 6 years ago, I’m nearly 30 now)

Also, I think 200mg of test a week for TRT should help me keep more gains than the average user who has to go through PCT, right? I mean I definitely agree I’d lose some gains, hopefully it won’t be half. Maybe I’ll have to get some BODPOD tests ran for before, after, and 8 weeks after just so I can report back with real numbers.

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30? I just read your "About me" in your profile. Tren is the MUTHER of all steroids. It's awesome stuff and if you don't get bad sides from running several cycles of it you're one of the lucky ones. Honesty, if you're really eating what you've written down, you can be doing much larger cycles to take advantage of all those calories. The only difference between bulking and cutting gear is just how much water your body will hold. Deca will hold a lot more water than Mast. Most guys use Deca for bulking and Mast for cutting. Tren is good for everything if one can handle the sides.

If I wanted to gain 25lbs of lean muscle as fast as I can, I would run a large bulking 14 week cycle of dbol (60mg/ed 4 wks) front load + Test E (500mg/wk to 800mg/wk) + Deca (600mg/wk to 800mg/wk) + EQ (800mg/wk to 1000mg/wk). Wait. Then run a 8 week cutting cycle of Test Prop (600mg/wk to 800mg/wk) + Tren A (300mg/wk to 500mg/wk I love Tren but I'm also a little afraid of it) + Mast P (500mg/wk to 700mg/wk). These are big cycles IMO. I don't run cycles this big. Then again, I'm happy where I'm at and my goal is just to stay lean and hard. Post your results. I'm curious to see your gains.

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Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

30? I just read your "About me" in your profile. Tren is the MUTHER of all steroids. It's awesome stuff and if you don't get bad sides from running several cycles of it you're one of the lucky ones. Honesty, if you're really eating what you've written down, you can be doing much larger cycles to take advantage of all those calories. The only difference between bulking and cutting gear is just how much water your body will hold. Deca will hold a lot more water than Mast. Most guys use Deca for bulking and Mast for cutting. Tren is good for everything if one can handle the sides.

If I wanted to gain 25lbs of lean muscle as fast as I can, I would run a large bulking 14 week cycle of dbol (60mg/ed 4 wks) front load + Test E (500mg/wk to 800mg/wk) + Deca (600mg/wk to 800mg/wk) + EQ (800mg/wk to 1000mg/wk). Wait. Then run a 8 week cutting cycle of Test Prop (600mg/wk to 800mg/wk) + Tren A (300mg/wk to 500mg/wk I love Tren but I'm also a little afraid of it) + Mast P (500mg/wk to 700mg/wk). These are big cycles IMO. I don't run cycles this big. Then again, I'm happy where I'm at and my goal is just to stay lean and hard. Post your results. I'm curious to see your gains.

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I would have to agree. Test and dbal will help build that muscle faster than test and tren. That tren will burn up a lot of caleries as well as your sleeping time. When you do your TDEE add 500 to 800 cal more to the amount over what you would intake bulking.

Ummm, nothing builds muscle as well as Tren. Let's get that out of the way lol. Now as for your question of how long will it take you to gain 25 lbs of lean mass..?? If you've already had the weight then clearly it will come back more quickly but is still going to take some time. We're talking about 25 lbs of solid f*ckin muscle. Can't stand when people say they've gained 20 lbs "of muscle" in 8 weeks or some crazy time frame like that. Yeah it's very possible, I'd even say it's pretty easy to gain 25 lbs of weight... Just run aromatizing gear and eat like a fat f*ck and in no time at all you'll be a big, bloated sh*t bag that weighs 25 lbs more than when you started lol. Prob realistic to do that in 2 months. Now, building LEAN mass like you're inquiring about is a real skill and takes time, patience, and CONSISTENCY. I'm gonna go ahead and throw a number out there and say 2 years to gain 25 lbs of muscle. That's with consistent training, eating, resting, and cycling. If you can gain 25 lbs of muscle in less time than that please share with us how you did it. I'm not saying it's not possible, so if you can I'd love to hear how you did it.

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Originally Posted by AlphaMindz

Ummm, nothing builds muscle as well as Tren.

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I would correct this statement by adding "nothing builds muscle as well as Tren coupled with Estrogen" .
we all know that Tren is used to beef up cattle for the slaughter , but what most people forget is in order for these cattle to grow, they get the Tren with a shit ton of Estrogen injected into them.

Works the same for us.. I know guys who ran very low dose test with high amounts of Tren for months and never put on much size at all. or guys running moderate dose of Test with a ton of AI with Tren and don't grow well either..

I know guys that run Tren with high dose test and no AI , and maybe throw some wet Dbol or Adrol in there for more estrogen and they grow like a weed..

you get a few rare outliers here and there that may respond well to Tren with low estrogen, but for the most part Tren needs to be stacked with a wet compound to illicit growth . otherwise, being its so dry, androgenic, and does not convert to E at all, it really just hardens you up and makes the muscle full.. add in the estrogen, which works similar to MGF and IGF1, and the growth potential is very strong

Gear, does this work the same with deca? Last deca cycle I ran I took a AI and wasn't impressed with it. Little to no growth until the last three weeks, when I added drol. I never used a AI till recently, thinking I don't need it unless cutting. I've never had gyno and use to never take any anti estrogens, back when I "didn't know what I was doing" lol

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Originally Posted by guitarzan

Gear, does this work the same with deca? Last deca cycle I ran I took a AI and wasn't impressed with it. Little to no growth until the last three weeks, when I added drol. I never used a AI till recently, thinking I don't need it unless cutting. I've never had gyno and use to never take any anti estrogens, back when I "didn't know what I was doing" lol

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yes, but Deca still has some conversion to Estrogen (unlike Tren that has none). If you were after size from your Deca cycle then you'd of been better off not running an AI at all. . like you I use an AI when cutting not bulking (usually). if your worried about gyno while on a bulk cycle then you simply add in 10mg of a SERM like Nolva. But running a shit ton of Arimidex while bulking and trying to grow is really hindering the gains.

heck, half the guys on this forum would be 10-20 pounds bigger if they weren't abusing AI's like they are and like whats being promoted on most the forums (look at the Avi's of most guys running a bunch of AI on their cycles, they aren't usually big).

I'm running a gram of test right now and I'm not running an AI at all . not only is this my opinion , my professional body building coach that is helping me with a 12 week prep only wants me to have it on hand right now and not use it (I'm wanting to 'grow' into a cut, if that makes sense).


having said that . YES there is a time and a place to use AI's (you don't want super high E all the time for months on end). They are great for getting dry 6 weeks out from a show.. they also help keep things in check if E gets way too high when your running multiple "wet" compounds , like MENT with Test and Dbol (thats an estrogen bomb and I've even resorted to Letro when running this). they are beneficial when cutting (its better to cut when your super dry cause its easier to see and gauge fat loss with low water retention).

But again, most the "normal" bulking cycles and dosages that most guys run really don't require an AI (maybe a SERM) and they will get way more growth. unless they are super estrogen sensitive and gyno prone

one more note on estrogen and AI's .. On most the forums the answer to most peoples problems is usually always "are you running an AI''. , "increase your AI dose'', and the comments on posted proposed AAS cycles is usually always "wheres your AI , you need it"" ... AI use is the answer for everything lol . but its all parroted BS Imo .

the reason why the cost of Arimidex has gotten so high over the past 7 years is cause of whats promoted on all the forums and so many newb users popping AIs daily like tic tacs.

these guys run 5-6 cycles and still look like they are natty lifters . also same guys always complain about lack of sex drive when they are running 500mg of test and should have a super strong sex drive ,, well what do you know, AIs directly effect your sex drive in a negative way.
stop abusing the AIs and you'll be fine

Thanks gear. I plan to run a bulk this fall/winter, I have a feeling I'm gonna grow on this one!

Attachment 171651
Jordan Peters put on a good amount of size over the years , one reason is because he does not believe in using an AI with his cycles, and he coaches his clients to do the same.. gyno is prevented with low dose SERMS if need be ran with the cycle

I should probably preface some of what I said above with this -- if you are a PCT guy then controlling estrogen while on cycle is going to help you recover better and faster . if you blast and cruise then thats not an issue

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I would correct this statement by adding "nothing builds muscle as well as Tren coupled with Estrogen" .
we all know that Tren is used to beef up cattle for the slaughter , but what most people forget is in order for these cattle to grow, they get the Tren with a shit ton of Estrogen injected into them.

Works the same for us.. I know guys who ran very low dose test with high amounts of Tren for months and never put on much size at all. or guys running moderate dose of Test with a ton of AI with Tren and don't grow well either..

I know guys that run Tren with high dose test and no AI , and maybe throw some wet Dbol or Adrol in there for more estrogen and they grow like a weed..

you get a few rare outliers here and there that may respond well to Tren with low estrogen, but for the most part Tren needs to be stacked with a wet compound to illicit growth . otherwise, being its so dry, androgenic, and does not convert to E at all, it really just hardens you up and makes the muscle full.. add in the estrogen, which works similar to MGF and IGF1, and the growth potential is very strong

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Touche brotha. So you're saying I'd be building more actual muscle tissue if I dropped the adex and just ran nolva?? But then how does one control boating..?

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Originally Posted by AlphaMindz

Touche brotha. So you're saying I'd be building more actual muscle tissue if I dropped the adex and just ran nolva?? But then how does one control boating..?

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yes. if your in a growth phase, and not really needing to cut down or shred up for anything, then you much better off with higher levels of estrogen.
as for the bloat . 90% of the time is the diet thats the cause. I know plenty of women, with super high amounts of estrogen, that have zero bloating issues and are super tight (because their diet is on point and they know what foods cause bloat for them).
so if a female can do this, you should be able to handle bloat as well with some elevated estrogen. relying on an AI for this (unless your going into a show), is really a hindrance to your gains.


I posted this in another thread and will repost it here..

Estrogen helps with muscle growth and other growth factors.. here are just a few benefits

- E helps promote nitric oxide production and stimulates better blood flow and relaxation of vascular system (it has cardiovascular benefits ,, this is why we see women in their early 20s with high levels of estrogen rarely ever having heart attack or stroke,, but men in their 20s still die from these things as well as do older post-menopause women with low estrogen)

- E works on a host of different receptors , from the brain, kidney, heart etc.. to skeletal muscle . Estrogen acts on a specific muscle receptor that is responsible for satellite cell proliferation (specifically interacts with ER-B receptors to increase myogenic substances). So estrogen encourages muscle growth in a very similar way as does growth hormone.. satellite cells are muscle stem cells that aide in growth and repair.

- Estrogen , in the presence of high levels of Test, will stimulate the elevation of IGF-1 (the most anabolic hormone) and thus aide in muscle growth as well as more satellite cell stimulation
^^. that right there is enough to warrant letting your E levels be elevated while on cycle if growth is your primary goal

thats kinda the science stuff . but even old school bodybuilders who had no idea the science as to why estrogen helps you grow knew it and they go on record saying they grew much better in the off season by not using an AI

if my main goal is growth , then I rarely use an AI. but not every cycle we do is just about growth . if we want to stay tight and dry and less watery then we will probably need to use an AI often . my point is not to be afraid of E especially if growth is the goal.

my theory as to why high levels of test, with tren, with high levels of estrogen will really help a guy grow (if he's not gyno prone) is because of the massive spike in IGF-1 . IGF gains are more permanent growth gains , compared to just blowing up with Dbol for a few weeks

Good shit man. Yeah unfortunately I'm gyno prone which really pisses me off lol but it is what it is. I actually have a little lump right now which came when I started the Winny (I'm assuming it came from reduced SHBG which increased my free test and BAM got a lump) albeit it's a small lump and doesn't hurt, I know it's there and is something to be aware of. I'm actually going to go under the knife and get the glands removed on both sides so I don't have to worry about this anymore. I'm just trying to find a good time to do it cause I'm dreading being out of the gym for several weeks while it heals. I have run cycles in the past without an AI and you're right, I got big af but this was back when I believed in "dirty bulking" and was bloated as hell lol, but def put on way more overall size than I am currently.. So I have some personal anecdotal evidence to support your claim. I am curious though if I kept my diet clean, low sodium, and got off the adex and jumped on nolva what kind of gains I would make. I feel like the guys from the 70's (in Arnold's era) had that full muscle belly look, in part, due to higher estrogen levels like you're talking about. They also had better skin, it seems..Almost glowing like a pregnant chick lol. Wonder if there's a correlation there..I've heard that higher estrogen actually contributes to acne but if I remember correctly (and that's speculative cause I tend to have "euphoric recall" and only remember the good parts of things lol) I feel like my skin was actually clearer when I didn't run an AI...Something interesting to explore as I imagine everyone's a bit different in that regard. My current goals are to be super lean but full, so I feel like this may be something to look into cause I can prob still achieve the look I'm going for with higher estrogen and would prob increase the fullness as long as my diet's in check and I'm not bloated. You make a good point about females staying lean and relatively dry with much higher estrogen levels....

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I would correct this statement by adding "nothing builds muscle as well as Tren coupled with Estrogen" .
we all know that Tren is used to beef up cattle for the slaughter , but what most people forget is in order for these cattle to grow, they get the Tren with a shit ton of Estrogen injected into them.

Works the same for us.. I know guys who ran very low dose test with high amounts of Tren for months and never put on much size at all. or guys running moderate dose of Test with a ton of AI with Tren and don't grow well either..

I know guys that run Tren with high dose test and no AI , and maybe throw some wet Dbol or Adrol in there for more estrogen and they grow like a weed..

you get a few rare outliers here and there that may respond well to Tren with low estrogen, but for the most part Tren needs to be stacked with a wet compound to illicit growth . otherwise, being its so dry, androgenic, and does not convert to E at all, it really just hardens you up and makes the muscle full.. add in the estrogen, which works similar to MGF and IGF1, and the growth potential is very strong

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Well shit...I was big on reading these forums 4-6 years ago and the general theory (from what I could gather, at least) was taking tren with lower test made the sides bearable and produced less risk.

Hmmm...

I could run a 200mg test/300mg tren blast for ~16 weeks with no AI and just caber for support. I prefer lower dosages and longer cycles to minimize sides. I’m already on TRT for life and my vitals never spike on lower dose cycles.

I’d have an AI on hand Incase my nipples itch but it sounds like floating a bit of estrogen is the way to go.

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Originally Posted by AlphaMindz

So I have some personal anecdotal evidence to support your claim. I am curious though if I kept my diet clean, low sodium, and got off the adex and jumped on nolva what kind of gains I would make.


. My current goals are to be super lean but full, so I feel like this may be something to look into cause I can prob still achieve the look I'm going for with higher estrogen and would prob increase the fullness as long as my diet's in check and I'm not bloated. You make a good point about females staying lean and relatively dry with much higher estrogen levels....

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Whats in bold could be some of your bloating issues, not estrogen. some carbs need and are better digested and absorbed with sodium. When that sodium is not present they do not absorb well and cause bloating.
also if your not getting enough sodium in then your body will up regulate the hormone Aldosterone , which may also cause bloating.

I'd try modifying your diet and adding in more sodium with your carb meals (you'll also get a much better pump and muscular contraction in the gym) and see if that helps the bloat.

then try cutting your AI dose down to maybe .5mg Adex just 2x per week, with a small dose of Nolva at 10mg per day. You'll keep the gyno in check, but have higher elevated levels of estrogen to help you grow

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Originally Posted by Shadow530i

Well shit...I was big on reading these forums 4-6 years ago and the general theory (from what I could gather, at least) was taking tren with lower test made the sides bearable and produced less risk.

Hmmm...

I could run a 200mg test/300mg tren blast for ~16 weeks with no AI and just caber for support. I prefer lower dosages and longer cycles to minimize sides. I’m already on TRT for life and my vitals never spike on lower dose cycles.

I’d have an AI on hand Incase my nipples itch but it sounds like floating a bit of estrogen is the way to go.

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only guys who are super sensitive to estrogen have less sides with low dose test with tren. if your not E sensitive then you can run high doses of Test just fine and grow better with higher levels of estrogen. also if you run Tren ace and inject it daily you'll have better blood levels and less side effects.

yes you can run Caber or Prami as your DA to control prolactin. but with only 300mg of Tren you may not need it.

if you up your dosage of Test while running Tren, then just simply run a small dose of a SERM like nolva the whole cycle. Probably don't even need an AI . keep in mind that an AI will do nothing for prolactin/progesterone induced gyno.

as I've stated over and over.. when running Tren for 'growth', higher levels of estrogen are necessary , and you only need a SERM to prevent gyno, not an AI

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

Whats in bold could be some of your bloating issues, not estrogen. some carbs need and are better digested and absorbed with sodium. When that sodium is not present they do not absorb well and cause bloating.
also if your not getting enough sodium in then your body will up regulate the hormone Aldosterone , which may also cause bloating.

I'd try modifying your diet and adding in more sodium with your carb meals (you'll also get a much better pump and muscular contraction in the gym) and see if that helps the bloat.

then try cutting your AI dose down to maybe .5mg Adex just 2x per week, with a small dose of Nolva at 10mg per day. You'll keep the gyno in check, but have higher elevated levels of estrogen to help you grow

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Just to clarify, the bloating issue was occurring back in the day when I was running Test and dbol with no AI and was eating like shit lol trying to get as big as possible, and I did get big af but I looked like shit. I was close to 240 but prob around 18% bf maybe even higher. That's the biggest I ever got but it was "t-shirt big" once you take the shirt off you look like a fat piece of sh*t lmao.
This time around I'm approaching it in a much healthier manner, eating clean, keeping sodium down, and running an AI to keep estrogen in check. So currently I have no issues with bloating, but it would be interesting to lower my adex dose from 1mg e3d to .5mg e3d and add nolva at 10mgs/ day and see if I can maintain relative dryness and increase fullness and possibly increase overall gains.
I am, however, making nice and clean gains right now so I'm really not complaining. Just keeping my mind open to other options and staying open to suggestions.
As always I appreciate your input and giving me something to think about and consider.