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  1. #1
    Mike5909 is offline Junior Member
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    Low Test after PCT

    Hey guys. 25 years old just coming off my 3rd cycle of 600 mg test e, 300mg of deca , and 50mg anadrol . The cycle was 15 weeks. I ran the deca for weeks 1-10 and drol 11-15. Also used 500iu hcg twice a week and arimadex. PCT was clomid 50mg for 4 weeks and tribulus for the last week.

    I had full bloodwork done the day after stopping clomid and everything looks great except test which is at 162. I dont feel horrible which is weird considering the extremely low number. Libido isnt great but its still there which is good. My clomid was prescribed so I know it's high quality so why would my test be so low after 4 weeks of it???

    My endo told me he would stay on clomid for longer but he doesn't seem too savvy with steroids and cycles so I figured I would ask the steroid community for some advice. Should I expect the number to go up over time? Or is there something I can take or do to expedite the process a little bit? I know my test won't be high right after a cycle but 162 is pretty terrible.

  2. #2
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
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    whats your dose of clomid ? what was your estrogen at on the blood work?

  3. #3
    Mike5909 is offline Junior Member
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    Clomid 50mg every day. Estrogen is 23 pg/ml

  4. #4
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Did you have pre cycle blood work?

    How long after your last pin of test did you begin clomid therapy?

  5. #5
    Mike5909 is offline Junior Member
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    Unfortunately no pre cycle blood work... started the clomid 2 weeks after last shot

  6. #6
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
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    thats interesting that test was so low with the Clomid still in your system.. normally it artificially jacks up test levels.

    I'd of ran 100mg clomid with 40mg of Nolva for your pct . perhaps you didn't run a strong enough pct. you could try to run a pct again, using hcg for 2 weeks , then do Clomid and Nolva at the dosage above.

    if you didn't want to run the cancer drugs again, there is a natural alternative that does work, Valhalla labs , believe the product is called Thors Hammer.. I've never personally used it as I'm on TRT, but I've heard good things

  7. #7
    Mike5909 is offline Junior Member
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    I can give that a shot. How much hcg for the 2 weeks before?

    I ran a huge cycle early last year for a big powerlifting meet and I probably didnt recover fully before jumping into my last cycle. That might be hurting me now. But still 162 while on clomid doesnt seem right

  8. #8
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    You may have primary hypogonadism as a result of using steroids before you HTPA was fully developed.

    Imo do another PCT consisting of both nolva and clomid at doses similar to those below.

    Then have blood work again 6-8 weeks after completing PCT.

    Clomid 75/50/50/50
    Nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20

  9. #9
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5909 View Post
    I can give that a shot. How much hcg for the 2 weeks before?
    500iu twice per week for two weeks

  10. #10
    Mike5909 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    You may have primary hypogonadism as a result of using steroids before you HTPA was fully developed.

    Imo do another PCT consisting of both nolva and clomid at doses similar to those below.

    Then have blood work again 6-8 weeks after completing PCT.

    Clomid 75/50/50/50
    Nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20
    Would that condition be detectable on an mri? Because my endo had me go for one on my pituitary gland several months ago and said it looked fine. Either way I will definitely run another pct with nolva this time

  11. #11
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5909 View Post
    Would that condition be detectable on an mri? Because my endo had me go for one on my pituitary gland several months ago and said it looked fine. Either way I will definitely run another pct with nolva this time
    That MRI assay was a test for secondary hypogonadism.

    Primary hypogonadism can be tested for by using hcg and I believe there's also an ultrasound assay.

    You might want to read the thread attached below.

    Power PCT protocol

  12. #12
    Mike5909 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    That MRI assay was a test for secondary hypogonadism.

    Primary hypogonadism can be tested for by using hcg and I believe there's also an ultrasound assay.

    You might want to read the thread attached below.

    Power PCT protocol
    My natural test levels were already pretty low before I started taking drugs. Usually high 300s low 400s. So I'm guessing after the hcg test, my levels still won't be normal... if this is the case and I have primary hypogonadism, is there really any successful treatment besides TRT in which I'd be able to conceive? Or am i screwed?

  13. #13
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
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    you can conceive just fine with Test levels in the 300s . thats not the issue. however you won't hold onto a lot of muscle mass with sub par natural test levels.

    my test levels were really low, 160s for a good part of my life before getting on TRT, and I had 5 kids

  14. #14
    Mike5909 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    you can conceive just fine with Test levels in the 300s . thats not the issue. however you won't hold onto a lot of muscle mass with sub par natural test levels.

    my test levels were really low, 160s for a good part of my life before getting on TRT, and I had 5 kids
    You had 5 kids before or after starting TRT? I'd love to hop on trt now because I wont be ready for kids for at least a few more years. Having low test for that period sounds miserable.

  15. #15
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    If you have primary hypogonadism then you'll likely be on TRT for the rest of your life.

    This is why we are so adamant about young adults not experimenting with AAS on this forum, the dangers are real and can last the rest of your life.

    Another PCT may reset your HTPA so stay positive.

    TT in the low 400s is within the standard deviation for a male your age.

    Do a nolva clomid PCT followed by blood work then consider a hcg test.

  16. #16
    Mike5909 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    If you have primary hypogonadism then you'll likely be on TRT for the rest of your life.

    This is why we are so adamant about young adults not experimenting with AAS on this forum, the dangers are real and can last the rest of your life.

    Another PCT may reset your HTPA so stay positive.

    TT in the low 400s is within the standard deviation for a male your age.

    Do a nolva clomid PCT followed by blood work then consider a hcg test.
    Will do. Does having primary hypogonadism make me permanently infertile? Being on trt for life doesnt sound too horrible to me unlike not being able to have kids. Ever hear of someone with it getting treatment to conceive and being successful? Just trying to see what my best/worst case scenarios are at this point

  17. #17
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5909 View Post
    Will do. Does having primary hypogonadism make me permanently infertile? Being on trt for life doesnt sound too horrible to me unlike not being able to have kids. Ever hear of someone with it getting treatment to conceive and being successful? Just trying to see what my best/worst case scenarios are at this point
    It's possible to conceive while being on TRT.

    Pro BBs have children all the time.

    Being on TRT is kind of like shaving.

    TRT doesn't seem bad when you're in your 20s, but when you have to do it twice a week for the rest of your life it becomes a real pain in the ass.

  18. #18
    Mike5909 is offline Junior Member
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    Yea I can definitely see that it can be annoying... well thanks guys for the advice. Really helpful. I will follow everything and update.

  19. #19
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    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    My question is why was your T low originally? Did your doctor not investigate this?
    Since you been checked for pituitary abnormalities already via MRI another step to consider would be an untrasound of your testicals to check for varicoceles. Especially since immediately post pct your testicals seemed unresponsive. Assuming your clomid was legitimate of course.
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  20. #20
    Mike5909 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    My question is why was your T low originally? Did your doctor not investigate this?
    Since you been checked for pituitary abnormalities already via MRI another step to consider would be an untrasound of your testicals to check for varicoceles. Especially since immediately post pct your testicals seemed unresponsive. Assuming your clomid was legitimate of course.
    I tried for a few years to figure out why it was low but my doctor kept telling me it's within the ridiculous normal range. I should've tried a little harder to find a doctor willing to investigate further but there really aren't too many willing to do that for someone my age. I'm going to talk with my doctor and mention everything.

    The clomid is legit. It was prescribed to me.

  21. #21
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    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5909 View Post
    I tried for a few years to figure out why it was low but my doctor kept telling me it's within the ridiculous normal range. I should've tried a little harder to find a doctor willing to investigate further but there really aren't too many willing to do that for someone my age. I'm going to talk with my doctor and mention everything.

    The clomid is legit. It was prescribed to me.

    Well, since the clomid's legitimate and you tested the day after stopping it then your LH value should be hyperstimulated and show this on blood work. If in fact it was hyperstimulated (elevated) and your T was still low it means your testicals did not respond to it.
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