In a lot of other threads I've spoken about estrogen being needed for growth and putting on muscle mass. I've talked about how you need to limit your AI use if you want to grow or are bulking. But that AI's are fine while in a cut cycle.
Also talked about how abusing AI's is a cause of a lot of negative problems while on cycle.
so I decided to put a lot of these points into one thread.
- Everyone knows that Tren is a drug that was produced for cattle to "bulk" them up for the slaughter. But what most people don't know is that these cattle get injected with Tren AND a crap ton of ESTROGEN , and this is how they bulk up. the estrogen plays a vital role.
Estrogen helps with muscle growth and other growth factors.. here are just a few benefits
- E helps promote nitric oxide production and stimulates better blood flow and relaxation of vascular system (it has cardiovascular benefits ,, this is why we see women in their early 20s with high levels of estrogen rarely ever having heart attack or stroke,, but men in their 20s still die from these things as well as do older post-menopause women with low estrogen)
- E works on a host of different receptors , from the brain, kidney, heart etc.. to skeletal muscle . Estrogen acts on a specific muscle receptor that is responsible for satellite cell proliferation (specifically interacts with ER-B receptors to increase myogenic substances). So estrogen encourages muscle growth in a very similar way as does growth hormone .. satellite cells are muscle stem cells that aide in growth and repair.
- Estrogen , in the presence of high levels of Test, will stimulate the elevation of IGF-1 (the most anabolic hormone) and thus aide in muscle growth as well as more satellite cell stimulation
^^. that right there is enough to warrant letting your E levels be elevated while on cycle if growth is your primary goal
thats kinda the science stuff . but even old school bodybuilders who had no idea the science as to why estrogen helps you grow knew it and they go on record saying they grew much better in the off season by not using an AI
if my main goal is growth , then I rarely use an AI (or use it at lower doses .. just depends on my goal for that cycle) but not every cycle we do is just about growth . if we want to stay tight and dry and less watery then we will probably need to use an AI often . my point is not to be afraid of E especially if growth is the goal.
my theory as to why high levels of test, with tren , with high levels of estrogen will really help a guy grow (if he's not gyno prone) is because of the massive spike in IGF-1 . IGF gains are more permanent growth gains , compared to just blowing up with Dbol for a few weeks
one more note on estrogen and AI's .. On most the forums the answer to most peoples problems is usually always "are you running an AI''. , "increase your AI dose'', and the comments on posted proposed AAS cycles is usually always "wheres your AI , you need it"" ... AI use is the answer for everything lol . but its all parroted BS Imo .
the reason why the cost of Arimidex has gotten so high over the past 7 years is cause of whats promoted on all the forums and so many newb users popping AIs daily like tic tacs.
these guys run 5-6 cycles and still look like they are natty lifters . also same guys always complain about lack of sex drive when they are running 500mg of test and should have a super strong sex drive ,, well what do you know, AIs directly effect your sex drive in a negative way.
stop abusing the AIs and you'll be fine. Stop over using the AI's and maybe you'll finally look like an enhanced bodybuilder and not like a skinny natty after running several cycles
I've been getting a lot of PM's from guys asking how to go about running a cycle with less or no AI use so they can get higher estrogen and better growth, but they don't want to end up with gyno. SIMPLE
Run 10-20mg of Nolva per day for the whole length of your cycle with NO AI. you'll grow much better and still keep estrogen in check at the receptor site.
even better, if your not gyno prone, then go without the Nolva as well and run nothing but your AAS compounds.
^^. thats not very popular way of doing things on most the forums, BUT its popular within the high ranks of bodybuilding. I currently have a pro level bodybuilding coach prepping me and he, like me, does not believe in using an AI if your trying to grow. I'm on 1500mg a week of test and no AI currently.
Heres a pic of a pro bodybuilder who is also a coach and never runs his off season growing cycles using an AI. He believes he grows much better without using an AI . and the pic seems to show that is true for him
if you guys are running a cycle for the purpose of adding muscular size and to grow ,, then you may want to re-cnsider how you use AI's
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Originally Posted by Coffeehead
