Results 1 to 18 of 18
Like Tree10Likes
  • 3 Post By GearHeaded
  • 1 Post By kelkel
  • 1 Post By ThatGuy82
  • 1 Post By Ashop
  • 1 Post By GearHeaded
  • 1 Post By GearHeaded
  • 1 Post By AlphaMindz
  • 1 Post By almostgone

Thread: AI's hindering your gains

  1. #1
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,566

    AI's hindering your gains

    In a lot of other threads I've spoken about estrogen being needed for growth and putting on muscle mass. I've talked about how you need to limit your AI use if you want to grow or are bulking. But that AI's are fine while in a cut cycle.
    Also talked about how abusing AI's is a cause of a lot of negative problems while on cycle.
    so I decided to put a lot of these points into one thread.

    - Everyone knows that Tren is a drug that was produced for cattle to "bulk" them up for the slaughter. But what most people don't know is that these cattle get injected with Tren AND a crap ton of ESTROGEN , and this is how they bulk up. the estrogen plays a vital role.

    Estrogen helps with muscle growth and other growth factors.. here are just a few benefits
    - E helps promote nitric oxide production and stimulates better blood flow and relaxation of vascular system (it has cardiovascular benefits ,, this is why we see women in their early 20s with high levels of estrogen rarely ever having heart attack or stroke,, but men in their 20s still die from these things as well as do older post-menopause women with low estrogen)

    - E works on a host of different receptors , from the brain, kidney, heart etc.. to skeletal muscle . Estrogen acts on a specific muscle receptor that is responsible for satellite cell proliferation (specifically interacts with ER-B receptors to increase myogenic substances). So estrogen encourages muscle growth in a very similar way as does growth hormone .. satellite cells are muscle stem cells that aide in growth and repair.

    - Estrogen , in the presence of high levels of Test, will stimulate the elevation of IGF-1 (the most anabolic hormone) and thus aide in muscle growth as well as more satellite cell stimulation
    ^^. that right there is enough to warrant letting your E levels be elevated while on cycle if growth is your primary goal

    thats kinda the science stuff . but even old school bodybuilders who had no idea the science as to why estrogen helps you grow knew it and they go on record saying they grew much better in the off season by not using an AI





    if my main goal is growth , then I rarely use an AI (or use it at lower doses .. just depends on my goal for that cycle) but not every cycle we do is just about growth . if we want to stay tight and dry and less watery then we will probably need to use an AI often . my point is not to be afraid of E especially if growth is the goal.

    my theory as to why high levels of test, with tren , with high levels of estrogen will really help a guy grow (if he's not gyno prone) is because of the massive spike in IGF-1 . IGF gains are more permanent growth gains , compared to just blowing up with Dbol for a few weeks


    one more note on estrogen and AI's .. On most the forums the answer to most peoples problems is usually always "are you running an AI''. , "increase your AI dose'', and the comments on posted proposed AAS cycles is usually always "wheres your AI , you need it"" ... AI use is the answer for everything lol . but its all parroted BS Imo .

    the reason why the cost of Arimidex has gotten so high over the past 7 years is cause of whats promoted on all the forums and so many newb users popping AIs daily like tic tacs.

    these guys run 5-6 cycles and still look like they are natty lifters . also same guys always complain about lack of sex drive when they are running 500mg of test and should have a super strong sex drive ,, well what do you know, AIs directly effect your sex drive in a negative way.

    stop abusing the AIs and you'll be fine. Stop over using the AI's and maybe you'll finally look like an enhanced bodybuilder and not like a skinny natty after running several cycles


    I've been getting a lot of PM's from guys asking how to go about running a cycle with less or no AI use so they can get higher estrogen and better growth, but they don't want to end up with gyno. SIMPLE

    Run 10-20mg of Nolva per day for the whole length of your cycle with NO AI. you'll grow much better and still keep estrogen in check at the receptor site.
    even better, if your not gyno prone, then go without the Nolva as well and run nothing but your AAS compounds.

    ^^. thats not very popular way of doing things on most the forums, BUT its popular within the high ranks of bodybuilding. I currently have a pro level bodybuilding coach prepping me and he, like me, does not believe in using an AI if your trying to grow. I'm on 1500mg a week of test and no AI currently.

    Heres a pic of a pro bodybuilder who is also a coach and never runs his off season growing cycles using an AI. He believes he grows much better without using an AI . and the pic seems to show that is true for him
    AI's hindering your gains-21827233_132524750718803_2099566922671587328_n.jpg



    if you guys are running a cycle for the purpose of adding muscular size and to grow ,, then you may want to re-cnsider how you use AI's
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-29-2018 at 12:01 PM.

  2. #2
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    28,932
    Nice write up GH. I've posted about low dose nolva on cycles here for years but it never seems to sink in. At least not to many.
    GearHeaded likes this.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  3. #3
    ThatGuy82's Avatar
    ThatGuy82 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    116
    Thank you for this GH! I have been wondering this over the last couple years as I just recently (last cycle) ran adex. Hell I just found out about running an AI during cycle last year and thought I'd give it a shot since I am gyno prone in my left nip. Always the left nip for some damn reason, never my right.

    Anyways, thanks bro. Good info!!
    GearHeaded likes this.

  4. #4
    Coffeehead is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    292
    Would low-dose Nolva without the presence of an AI prevent gyno symptoms from flaring up?

    I'd love to do a cycle without an AI - it seems to dry up my joints and it causes my surgically repaired ACL to get really tight and achy. This makes hammering legs quite an unpleasant task.

  5. #5
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    28,932
    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead View Post
    Would low-dose Nolva without the presence of an AI prevent gyno symptoms from flaring up?

    That's exactly what it will do.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  6. #6
    Coffeehead is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    That's exactly what it will do.
    Thanks! I sort of figured it was only one part of the equation, and that it would help but not alone on it's own. I thought an AI was a necessity.

  7. #7
    Clove1234 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Gains factory
    Posts
    483
    GH already answered this for me once, but i got even more info on this post. Great write up. I think i want to stop my ai for the rest of my cycle and just use nolva 10mg ed.

    My only question is at what point would i get gyno if i was prone to getting it? Just on test 500mg a week. On week 7, the only thing i noticed was sensitive nips at the two week mark for about two days. I have had no others issues.

  8. #8
    Ashop's Avatar
    Ashop is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9,921
    I've never felt that AI's have hindered my gains at all. In fact there's many times I've looked better with an AI.

  9. #9
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,566
    Quote Originally Posted by ALIN View Post
    I've never felt that AI's have hindered my gains at all. In fact there's many times I've looked better with an AI.
    absolutely. they should help you look better. I'm not against the use of AIs , I'm all for guys using them in a cut and especially for contest prep. if your body fat is low enough your going to look more dry and detailed with low estrogen.

    However, growing muscle mass needs to be accomplished first and growing is accomplished much better with high estrogen and no AI
    ThatGuy82 likes this.

  10. #10
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,566
    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead View Post
    Thanks! I sort of figured it was only one part of the equation, and that it would help but not alone on it's own. I thought an AI was a necessity.
    nope, an AI is not a necessity. Nolva or Ralox will cover you from gyno the whole cycle and only ancillary that you need. I know of pro bodybuilders that don't run an AI and only run a SERM and they've never had gyno issues

  11. #11
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,566
    Quote Originally Posted by Clove1234 View Post
    GH already answered this for me once, but i got even more info on this post. Great write up. I think i want to stop my ai for the rest of my cycle and just use nolva 10mg ed.

    My only question is at what point would i get gyno if i was prone to getting it? Just on test 500mg a week. On week 7, the only thing i noticed was sensitive nips at the two week mark for about two days. I have had no others issues.
    depends on your genetics.. you may never get gyno and never need an AI . or you may run test and be fine, but then you decide to run D-bol and then bam you get gyno 4 weeks in (because Dbol converts to a more powerful form of estrogen then test does).. or maybe you run a nanrdrolone and you get prolactin/progesterone induced gyno. depends on compounds and how sensitive you are to each.

    if at 7 weeks of Test and you have no issues of gyno starting to develop then your probably fine. may not need an AI or Nolva.. but always have both on hand. or always run a low dose of Nolva on every cycle you do as a kind of 'insurance policy' for gyno prevention.

  12. #12
    guitarzan's Avatar
    guitarzan is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    georgia
    Posts
    4,525
    Nice write up gear, should be a sticky

  13. #13
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,566
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuy82 View Post
    Thank you for this GH! I have been wondering this over the last couple years as I just recently (last cycle) ran adex. Hell I just found out about running an AI during cycle last year and thought I'd give it a shot since I am gyno prone in my left nip. Always the left nip for some damn reason, never my right.

    Anyways, thanks bro. Good info!!
    yeah brother just run Nolva or Ralox at low dose with every cycle you do
    ThatGuy82 likes this.

  14. #14
    JackMan017 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    78
    What's your opinion on using AI for someone's first cycle? Austinite's first cycle thread calls for .25mg EOD from weeks 1-14.

    How does one know if they are gyno prone versus simply carrying excess fat?

  15. #15
    AlphaMindz's Avatar
    AlphaMindz is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Destination Peaksville
    Posts
    1,017
    After your original post explaining the benefits of not running an AI I decided to lower my dose of adex from 1mg e3d to .5mg e3d and it hasnt been long enough to really see a huge difference but I have noticed my sex drive is up. I also seem to be a little bit fuller and getting better pumps. I won't know for sure until I give it some more time but I do feel that my adex dose was prob a little high cause I'm not noticing any bloating with the lowered dose and do notice better pumps. Better pumps usually means better gains so I'm curious to see what'll happen in the weeks to come.
    GearHeaded likes this.

  16. #16
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is online now AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    23,023
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    After your original post explaining the benefits of not running an AI I decided to lower my dose of adex from 1mg e3d to .5mg e3d and it hasnt been long enough to really see a huge difference but I have noticed my sex drive is up. I also seem to be a little bit fuller and getting better pumps. I won't know for sure until I give it some more time but I do feel that my adex dose was prob a little high cause I'm not noticing any bloating with the lowered dose and do notice better pumps. Better pumps usually means better gains so I'm curious to see what'll happen in the weeks to come.

    Don't know what your cycle is, but you were taking a boatload of a'dex. Wouldn't be surprised if you could lower it a tad more. Would need labs to tell, but too low of an E2 level causes multiple.issues and is counterproductive.
    GearHeaded likes this.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  17. #17
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,566
    Quote Originally Posted by JackMan017 View Post
    What's your opinion on using AI for someone's first cycle? Austinite's first cycle thread calls for .25mg EOD from weeks 1-14.

    How does one know if they are gyno prone versus simply carrying excess fat?
    your first cycle is generally going to be your lowest dosed cycle you do. Not much more then 400mg of test and thats it. most guys aren't going to need much of an AI or anything else at the low of a dose.
    to put it in perspective.
    I just came off of running 2000mg of test, now I'm at 1300mg (plus other compounds) and I'm not running an AI and no I don't have man boobs growing.

    Gyno is possible at any dose though if your genetically pre-disposed to it (I'm not). you could run just a few weeks of Dbol and have gyro start up. so just play it safe and always have your AIs and SERMS on hand. I've got Nolvadex and Letro.

    Gyno is going to be the development of hard masses or lumps under breast tissue,, it will feel a lot different then water retention or fat storage in the pecs.

  18. #18
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,566
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    After your original post explaining the benefits of not running an AI I decided to lower my dose of adex from 1mg e3d to .5mg e3d and it hasnt been long enough to really see a huge difference but I have noticed my sex drive is up. I also seem to be a little bit fuller and getting better pumps. I won't know for sure until I give it some more time but I do feel that my adex dose was prob a little high cause I'm not noticing any bloating with the lowered dose and do notice better pumps. Better pumps usually means better gains so I'm curious to see what'll happen in the weeks to come.
    I've had other guys PM me saying they got off the high amounts of AI they were taking and they have reported the same things you are.. feeling fuller, bigger, stronger, and better pumps.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •