What to do before 3rd cycle

**Macros** · 02-23-2018, 01:31 PM

I’m 31 yo and have done two previous cycles with proper pct and time off. Cycle 1 was test E only for 12 weeks (500mgs/wk). Cycle 2 was test E (500mgs/wk) and EQ (400mgs/wk) for 14 weeks. My third cycle is going to be test E (400mgs/wk) and npp (300mgs/wk) for 14 weeks. I have trained naturally for 10 years prior to AAS but have never achieved my desired physique. My problem is I am light 5’9” 170lbs but I am around 15% bf. When I cut down to 12% bf my weight goes down and I look too skinny without ever being ripped. When I bulk to 180lbs my body fat heads near 18% and I start to cut again because I had not having definition. My goal is to be around 10% bf while holding more lean muscle (probably weighing in at 180 or 185 - although I know the mirror test is more important than a number in a scale). I am very deciplined and knowledgeable about nutrition. I just don’t know what is best for my body type. For my upcoming cycle should I cut down to 10-12% bf (even though I’ll be a skinny shit) before building up on the gear or should I just bulk on the gear and not worry about bf gain and cut after I have put on more lean tissue?

**AlphaMindz** · 02-23-2018, 01:47 PM

Just run a recomp cycle. Test, Tren , and Winny will do the trick. Keep you diet clean and do a little cardio throughout the week and hit that gym hard! Get them gains son!

Npp is awesome I love Nandrolone but it's a wet compound and is not favorable if you're holding extra body fat. Better to keep it dry IMO although you'll have some Test in there so you'll have a nice balance.. Test is Test, Tren's a progestin, and Winny's DHT , these will give you nice composition and help you build muscle while losing fat. No that wasnt a typo, I meant to say BUILD muscle while losing fat lol.

**AlphaMindz** · 02-23-2018, 01:51 PM

Eat in a caloric deficit with 30% protein, 50% fat (healthy fats like avocado), and 20% carbs.

**Macros** · 02-23-2018, 01:58 PM

Thank you for the reply AlphaMindz. I do not have any experience with tren or winny. Could you please give me recommended cycle layout. Type of tren (ace/E), number of weeks for each compound, dosage for each compound and for the winny - injectable or oral?

Also I already have the npp and test on hand with all necessary ancillaries and npp. It’s been 6 months since I last cycled so I’m thinking I will go with run the test/npp now while only eating slightly over maintenance.

***one question on my test/npp cycle - I have prami on hand for potential gyno issues and of course will be running an AI during cycle (exemestane). Do you recommend running prami throughout or only if needed? What dosage would you recommend for prami and while were at it - what dosage do you recommend for the exemestane?

I will definitely use your suggested cycle for my 4th cycle after I take the neccassary time to recover from this cycle

**Macros** · 02-24-2018, 05:39 PM

Anyone else able to offer any suggestions?

**MACKATTACK** · 02-24-2018, 06:04 PM

IF you were knowledgeable about nutrition you wouldn't be having this issue, 100pct diet issue, lots of times its doing something you haven't done before with your diet because obviously whatever you know, isn't working........get a coach who knows their shit........

**GearHeaded** · 02-24-2018, 06:06 PM

if I was to guess, I would say that you only weigh 170 pounds , despite over a decade of training and some AAS use under you belt, BECAUSE you are constantly going back and fourth from trying to cut and trying to bulk. your taking 1 step forward then 2 steps backward (especially if you cut without using AAS).

putting on quality size takes a good couple solid years of growth. Do NOT cut during these growing years, other then doing short 4 week mini cuts to increase insulin sensitivity . stop worrying about your body fat. if you train, diet, and use AAS properly to grow then over time your body will end up using that fat as just stored calories and will help your overall endeavor at adding size.

having said that and your still stuck on having that lean ripped look but don't mind being small and only 170 pounds.. then I agree with AlphaMindz and just doing a recomp

**GearHeaded** · 02-24-2018, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by MACKATTACK1

IF you were knowledgeable about nutrition you wouldn't be having this issue, 100pct diet issue, lots of times its doing something you haven't done before with your diet because obviously whatever you know, isn't working........get a coach who knows their shit........

agree . nutrition is key. IF he is using AAS and training properly , but putting on fat and not a ton of muscle, then he is not partitioning nutrients very well. he needs a nutrition program thats going to be based on timing of macros to help him partition nutrients positively into muscle growth rather then fat storage

**ScotchGuard02** · 02-24-2018, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Macros

I’m 31 yo and have done two previous cycles with proper pct and time off. Cycle 1 was test E only for 12 weeks (500mgs/wk). Cycle 2 was test E (500mgs/wk) and EQ (400mgs/wk) for 14 weeks. My third cycle is going to be test E (400mgs/wk) and npp (300mgs/wk) for 14 weeks. I have trained naturally for 10 years prior to AAS but have never achieved my desired physique. My problem is I am light 5’9” 170lbs but I am around 15% bf. When I cut down to 12% bf my weight goes down and I look too skinny without ever being ripped. When I bulk to 180lbs my body fat heads near 18% and I start to cut again because I had not having definition. My goal is to be around 10% bf while holding more lean muscle (probably weighing in at 180 or 185 - although I know the mirror test is more important than a number in a scale). I am very deciplined and knowledgeable about nutrition. I just don’t know what is best for my body type. For my upcoming cycle should I cut down to 10-12% bf (even though I’ll be a skinny shit) before building up on the gear or should I just bulk on the gear and not worry about bf gain and cut after I have put on more lean tissue?

5'9" @ 170 w/ 15% bf and 2 cycles under your belt? It sounds like to me you don't have your nutrition dialed in. Don't worry about getting cut up right now. Get some bulk on you. You'll be looking good at 185lbs @ 10% bf. Run Test E for 12 weeks and run NPP for the last 8 weeks. Go for the bulk and eat clean.

**Macros** · 02-25-2018, 10:04 AM

I appreciate the replies. I will definitely say I have bounced. Back and forth between bulking and cutting when I was training naturally for the 10 years bc I wanted to stay in a healthy bodyfat range. When I say I know nutrition it means I know all the concepts and have tried many (carb cycling, low carb, different macro breakdowns, intermittent fasting) just haven’t had great results with most of them. My body seems to respond the best to carb cycling. I agree I will have to stick to bulking for awhile and not worry about bodyfat if I want to gain lean tissue. I like the idea of 4 week mini cuts which I will try and when it is time to do a longer cut I will make sure I’m on AAS to preserve muscle tissue which I have not done in the past. I do have a friend who is an npc bodybuilder and sponsored by animal nutrition who does coaching but it’s $200 a month and I can’t afford that right now on top of the cycle I just bought along with my other monthly expenses. Thank you all for the input. Much appreciated. I will let you know how I progress through this third cycle.

Any particular suggestions on a diet plan for this cycle? My BMR is 1,800 and TDEE is 2,300. I was thinking of starting at 2,500 for 4 weeks, going up to 2,800 for 4 weeks then to 3,000 the last weeks of the cycle. Was thinking of a 40/40/20 macro split since my body responds pretty good to that. Thanks!

**ScotchGuard02** · 02-25-2018, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Macros

I appreciate the replies. I will definitely say I have bounced. Back and forth between bulking and cutting when I was training naturally for the 10 years bc I wanted to stay in a healthy bodyfat range. When I say I know nutrition it means I know all the concepts and have tried many (carb cycling, low carb, different macro breakdowns, intermittent fasting) just haven’t had great results with most of them. My body seems to respond the best to carb cycling. I agree I will have to stick to bulking for awhile and not worry about bodyfat if I want to gain lean tissue. I like the idea of 4 week mini cuts which I will try and when it is time to do a longer cut I will make sure I’m on AAS to preserve muscle tissue which I have not done in the past. I do have a friend who is an npc bodybuilder and sponsored by animal nutrition who does coaching but it’s $200 a month and I can’t afford that right now on top of the cycle I just bought along with my other monthly expenses. Thank you all for the input. Much appreciated. I will let you know how I progress through this third cycle.

Any particular suggestions on a diet plan for this cycle? My BMR is 1,800 and TDEE is 2,300. I was thinking of starting at 2,500 for 4 weeks, going up to 2,800 for 4 weeks then to 3,000 the last weeks of the cycle. Was thinking of a 40/40/20 macro split since my body responds pretty good to that. Thanks!

My body responds well to carb cycling also. You can do a bulk cycle and still lose body fat. It really does depend on what you eat and not so much what you inject. Body fat reacts to food and activity. 40/40/20 is a good split on a bulk cycle. Just make sure that each of those calories are clean.

**Macros** · 02-25-2018, 12:56 PM

Thank you ScotchGuard02. I work out at 7am. So my first two meals are pre and post workout. I eat 60 grams cream of rice mixed with a scoop of protein for both pre and post workout. An hour after my post workout I eat 60 grams rolled oats with a quest bar. Lunch is broccoli, 5oz chicken breast and 5oz sweet potato. Dinner is green veggie, 5-6oz lean ground turkey, 5-6oz sweet potato and bedtime snack is 2 whole eggs, 1/2 cup 1% cottage cheese and 1 tbps peanut butter (but let’s be honest - no one can actually eat just 1 tbsp of peanut butter so I will say 2 tbsp to be more accurate.) this puts me around 2300 cals which is my tdee. The protein here is already over 200 grams and fat is around 70 grams so in order to bulk I will keep the carb sources the same and increase them over the course of the cycle. How does that sound?

**GearHeaded** · 02-25-2018, 01:26 PM

When your on cycle you can utilize a lot more calories then what your consuming. 2300 cals is NOT even close to enough to grow. You need to be eating like your 200 pounds not 150. also, when your on cycle your body utilizes protein much better then when your natty, and you have very little use of fat (unless your struggling to get calories in). however your body can really burn through the carbs on cycle, and has the capability to store a lot more glycogen. you should be upping your carbs big time when you start bulking with AAS. I recommend using Metformin when doing this. your calories and carbs are too low to grow and put on much muscle

**GearHeaded** · 02-25-2018, 01:34 PM

just to put it in perspective , I'm currently recomping and losing body fat on 3500 cals per day.. if I was on a cycle really trying to grow and put on size it would be way higher then that.

**MACKATTACK** · 02-25-2018, 01:43 PM

Are you an Endo, Ecto or Meso? What type of cardio are you doing?

I am personally an Endo/Meso mix and I notice how different types of proteins and carbs react with my body and what type of cardio does what for me. Each build is different and you learn over the years what to eat and how to train to make your body a certain way. IF you have been training 10 years and have this down pat you wouldn't have this issue. Also do you drink? (I don't)

**Macros** · 02-25-2018, 04:20 PM

GearHeaded thank you for the information. Since I’ve only done two cycles I am still learning how things change while on cycle. I will definitely up the protein/carbs. Mackattack1 when I was younger I put on weight easily and was 190lbs when I was 18. That is when I started lifting for sports and was very strong but did not know what I was going from a diet and nutrition standpoint. I badly herniated two disc in my back and lost 40lbs over the next 12 months since I could not work out and lost my appetite due to the painkillers I was on. From ages 20-30 I’ve done a ton of reading and trial and error and can say that I achieved a pretty good physique for a natural. I wanted to make sure I did all I could naturally before trying AAS. Like I said I have done 2 cycles and am still learning so I appreciate all the advice. I will try what was suggested here while on my third cycle and will report back with results.

**MACKATTACK** · 02-25-2018, 04:55 PM

Whats your diet exactly?

**Macros** · 02-25-2018, 05:48 PM

I posted a bit earlier in the thread:

Thank you ScotchGuard02. I work out at 7am. So my first two meals are pre and post workout. I eat 60 grams cream of rice mixed with a scoop of protein for both pre and post workout. An hour after my post workout I eat 60 grams rolled oats with a quest bar. Lunch is broccoli, 5oz chicken breast and 5oz sweet potato. Dinner is green veggie, 5-6oz lean ground turkey, 5-6oz sweet potato and bedtime snack is 2 whole eggs, 1/2 cup 1% cottage cheese and 1 tbps peanut butter (but let’s be honest - no one can actually eat just 1 tbsp of peanut butter so I will say 2 tbsp to be more accurate.) this puts me around 2300 cals which is my tdee. The protein here is already over 200 grams and fat is around 70 grams so in order to bulk I will keep the carb sources the same and increase them over the course of the cycle.

**Macros** · 03-10-2018, 07:03 PM

Hey guys. I was told a couple times on this thread that I didn’t know what I was going since I trained naturally for over 10 years and couldn’t reach my goals. I posted my current diet on this thread twice and didn’t receive any specific feedback. I heard I should up the calories but what would a day of eating look like? Calories? Macros? Meal plan suggestions?

**Iron Frenchie** · 03-10-2018, 07:50 PM

Everyone is saying recomp. A recomp is what everyone wants in their cycle. To gain muscle and lose fat. To bad it’s easier said then done. Your 170lbs I would say a bulk. You sound like your metabolism is fast. Get your daily calories up a little more and not worry about cutting fat when your on cycle.

You should switch to something like 200mg test p and 600mg NPP. You will only need to run this cycle for 9 weeks. Due to using fast esters this makes your total shut down period 10 weeks. Compared to the 17 (14 on + 3 off) weeks listed above. You will be able to recover better and jump back on faster. The only negative is having to pin EOD. Which isn’t a big deal.

**Couchlockd** · 03-10-2018, 11:50 PM

if I was you, eat till you puke.your fridge should be stocked with robot food (6 ozchicken, 1 cup rice 1 cup broccoli and some kidney beans) your should have at least 20 of these in there. and those will only cover a week with you cooking early and late morning breakfast on,the fly

**Macros** · 03-11-2018, 07:24 PM

Thanks for the feedback! I agree I should have gone with test p so I could have pinned together with the npp 3x/week. Oh well I will do that next time if I like the npp.

**Couchlockd** · 03-11-2018, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

When your on cycle you can utilize a lot more calories then what your consuming. 2300 cals is NOT even close to enough to grow. You need to be eating like your 200 pounds not 150. also, when your on cycle your body utilizes protein much better then when your natty, and you have very little use of fat (unless your struggling to get calories in). however your body can really burn through the carbs on cycle, and has the capability to store a lot more glycogen. you should be upping your carbs big time when you start bulking with AAS. I recommend using Metformin when doing this. your calories and carbs are too low to grow and put on much muscle

so go very low fat on cycle?

what would the ceiling be on fats as well as the minimum? 150 lb man?